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Messages - simon_grow

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Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: Lemon Zest mango tree
« on: February 15, 2019, 06:39:53 PM »
Growing mango trees on alternative rootstocks is a pain and very costly. Many of the seeds we plant never even sprout and not all seeds that sprout are used for grafting because they lack vigor.

Once we do select a rootstock, we have to order scions from Florida and pay for the scions plus shipping and not every scion that is sent to us is selected for use because they may be damaged in shipping or the quality of the scion is not what we are looking for. Our best success is achieved when we are able to use scions from our own trees but this is not always possible.

Unless you are an advanced gardener, I would highly recommend against planting Florida rootstock mango trees with the caveat of the more vigorous varieties I already mentioned. I have several threads regarding the difficulties associated with planting mango trees from Florida.  Many of the trees slowly die off or they grow at a snails pace.

This is probably the last year I will graft Mango trees for our SoCal members, itís just too much work. I want our members to succeed in growing mango trees in SoCal so if you miss out on the trees that Brad and I are grafting this year, you will have to plant a bunch of seedlings and learn to graft. Learning to graft is a skill that will be very useful in this hobby.


Hey Fang, the acidity definitely decreases as you age the fruit off the tree. I do not believe the sugars increase but I do believe the perceived sweetness increases due to the decrease in acid level which shifts the sugar/acid balance.

I still have the fruit ripening in my garage and Iím positive they will taste better now than they did a couple weeks ago. I also have a few fruit hanging on my tree so Iíll see if the February Fruit is sweeter than the December/January fruit.


Can he approach graft a different rootstock?  Would that at least alleviate the problem?

I have tried this but the results were mixed so I donít recommend it. I would rather start with a rootstock that does perform well here.

For anyone using Abound, make sure you are following the recommendations and not applying it more than you should. Also make sure you are alternating it with other fungicides from a different group so that the organisms donít build up resistance.

If youíre using this product without knowledge of How to alternate it with fungicides from a different group, you probably shouldnít be using it. We could be creating superbugs that are resistant to Azoxystrobin.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Experiment to get lychee to bloom
« on: February 12, 2019, 07:16:55 PM »
You may also want to check this out, if not for this year, maybe next year.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Sourcing tree pots
« on: February 12, 2019, 06:48:56 PM »
I did some quick research on tree roots many years ago and I prefer these pots
They may be more expensive but they are worth it.

The size of the pot will depend on what youíre growing and how long you plan to keep it in that pot before up potting.

Do not plant a small tree in a huge pot. It will grow better if you step up the pot gradually. Doing this will also utilize the soil, nutrients and water more efficiently.

When planting seedlings, new sprouts( Cherimoya or mango for example) can grow a very long tap root in a very short amount of time. It can grow 8-12 inches deep in no time.


Wait for another flush or two, the droopiness will come. The mulch helps a lot. The Florida trees seem very susceptible to Phomopsis. Phomopsis causes stem/branch dieback and symptoms usually occur during periods of colder weather. Florida trees are usually ok the first year but symptoms appear later on and are especially noticeable in certain varieties like Alphonso.

Dr Crane or Dr Campbell advised one of our members here that increasing Manganese can help with the Phomopsis. Vigorous varieties seem to outgrow the dieback and gummosis.

Without sending in tissue samples, it is extremely difficult to know exactly what organism is causing issues with Mangos trees grown in SoCal. A sample of diseased mango tree sent in for analysis showed Phomopsis and another fungi but I forget what the other organism was.


The droopiness will be very noticeable after 2-3 years.

Gummosis usually shows up after 1-3 years.

If you are growing vigorous varieties like Sweet Tart, Lemon Zest, VP, etc... you will not have much issues other than droopiness.

It looks like you have a good layer of mulch and your trees look healthy so far.

After your trees first flowering, the branches that bloomed will drool unless you take measures to minimize droopiness.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Breeding Cherimoyas/Atemoyas?
« on: February 09, 2019, 08:19:09 PM »
Sam, for full grown Cherimoya trees, they need very little Nitrogen input. Stopping Nitrogen input around September will help to control the overall size of the tree.

For my fruiting size Cherimoya, I feed it with 3-12-12 once a month throughout the year except October through March or April when the tree is beginning or in dormancy. I also feed it my Cherimoyas with Kelp emulsion, coffee grounds, earthworm castings and compost.

Mark, Cherimoya trees are pretty much Evergreen trees in SoCal except the months of March and April but this depends on where you are(climate) and how you care for your trees. If you do nothing, the tree may stay green and hold leaves year round.

I back off on Nitrogen fertilizer and watering around October because of our Winter rains and I significantly back off on watering around March. This is specific to where I live and I look for clues from my tree to tell me when to prep it to go dormant.

I prep it for dormancy when all the fruit are off the tree and the tree shows signs of pulling nutrients back from the leaves. The leaves will start to look like it is getting some interveinal chlorosis. Leaves will also start drying up and dropping on its own.

After itís dormancy period, you will know when to gradually increase watering and fertilizing because you will see new growth or swollen buds from where the leaves have fallen off.

When the Cherimoya tree comes out of dormancy, the flowers will usually appear on the new growth.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Breeding Cherimoyas/Atemoyas?
« on: February 08, 2019, 09:44:04 PM »
Sam, you want to stop Nitrogen input about now so that it will not encourage out of season growth flush. Cherimoya trees should be starting to go into dormancy about now. Because of our rains, I have already stopped watering my Cherimoya trees about two months ago.

I will be growing out some Dr White x Pierce seedlings this year. Next year, we will be doing more crosses in the hopes of breeding something really delicious. Iím still trying to breed something that has better acidity than what is currently out there and flowers that can set fruit on their own would be an added bonus.


I had frost on my plants this morning. Another night of frost may kill some of my smaller grafted Mangos that are just starting to push. My pineapple leaves already got frozen back.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: First Frost of the year
« on: February 06, 2019, 02:50:15 PM »
I got my first frost of the year this morning. It was all over my car and on the weeds in my front yard. My White Pineapple got frosted back as they do every year but they will survive. Mangos are ok but I expect minor damage on new blooms and shoots. Hereís some pictures for today.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: ants farming?
« on: February 04, 2019, 08:20:31 AM »
I see what appears to be scale by the center vein of the big leaf. The ants could be farming baby scale that is difficult to see.


Hereís some combinations that Patrick did. Some may have seen this but others may not have.

From my experience, placement of the grafts is extremely important in regards to the overall balance of the tree. Grafts placed on the South side will grow faster and grafts with vertical apical dominance tend to grow faster as one would expect.

With multigraft trees, it can be difficult to differentiate the different varieties after the grafts have grown out. If anyone is even considering selling scions from their trees, I highly recommend single graft trees unless you paint the different branches and keep the number of varieties to a minimum.


Hey Fang, a couple branches from my Shiranui grafts broke about 1-2 weeks ago from the heavy weight of the fruit. The fruit was fully colored but I think they could have ripened up more on the tree.

I took a Brix reading and my home grown fruit harvested in January had a Brix reading of 14%. I also bought a couple Dekopon from the supermarket and they also had a Brix reading of 14%.

I have a couple smaller Shiranui hanging on a graft on a different tree so Iíll let these ripen a bit more to see if they get sweeter. They are on different rootstocks however so this may affect the Brix readings.


Citrus General Discussion / Re: Shiranui too large for branches
« on: January 30, 2019, 06:16:02 PM »
Behl, those are huge!

Thanks Millet, 2 months at below 59F and covered in the dark.

On a side note, I purchased some Dekopon at Sprouts and it had a Brix reading of 14%, same as what I got from my grafts.


Frankieís Red is a Hybrid between the yellow Megalanthus and a red fleshed variety if I recall properly.

Here is a thread on some Megalanthus hybrids.


There is a larger fruiting variety of the yellow Dragonfruit. They get to about 1 lbs.

Another high Brix variety is S8(Sugar Dragon).

The yellow dragon is more sensitive to cold. It is slow growing at first but once established, it grows rapidly.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: HoneyGlow Pineapple 🍍
« on: January 23, 2019, 04:19:18 PM »
The description says itís new with a minimum Brix of 12%. It could be a new variety. I wonder what the average Brix is?


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: HoneyGlow Pineapple 🍍
« on: January 23, 2019, 04:16:22 PM »
I wonder if itís just MD2 with a shiny new marketing name?


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango trees not flowering
« on: January 23, 2019, 04:15:07 PM »
When you gave your trees some Potassium fertilizer, did the fertilizer also contain Nitrogen? If it did, high leaf Nitrogen levels can tilt the balance more towards shoot growth or mixed growth. Cold stimulus now can initiate some flowering but that is depending on nature. I have read somewhere that girdling works for Mangos but I would only do this if you are desperate, you know what youíre doing, or youíre not afraid to lose the girdled branch.

Next year, try to decrease watering prior to expected blooms and make sure you are not over fertilizing with Nitrogen. Hereís a good article on mango flowering.


Citrus General Discussion / Re: Shiranui too large for branches
« on: January 23, 2019, 08:11:16 AM »
Thanks for the suggestion Millet, Iíll give it a try.

Zephian, that sucks. Hopefully your fruit were still edible.


Citrus General Discussion / Shiranui too large for branches
« on: January 22, 2019, 07:52:29 PM »
the Last couple of days have been pretty windy and I just got home from work and noticed that two branches of my  Shiranui(Dekopon) were snapped in half. Iíve noticed that Shiranui, like most tangerines, tend to hold too many fruit on their branches. I thought I was smart and thinned about 70% of the fruit when they were about marble size but that just made the remaining fruit bigger. My larger fruit are as big, if not bigger than the store bought Premium Dekopon fruit. My largest weighed about 1 lbs 2 Oz.

Anyone else have issues with their Shiranui grafts? The fruit were already colored up but I was hoping to let them hang a bit longer to sweeten up more. I just cut open a smaller fruit to take a Brix reading and it came in at 14% Brix.

Without curing the fruit, the flavor was good with good sweetness and an acidity similar to an Orange. I will cure some of the fruit in my garage for 1-3 weeks in order to let the citric/ascorbic acid mellow to see if flavor improves.  Here are some pictures of the fruit harvested from the branches that snapped off.


Those look like clean cuts and good matches. I noticed on your first picture, the graft Union was not wrapped, I suppose you did that to show the union. If the union is not wrapped or covered, I highly recommend you wrap the union and the entire scion in order to prevent drying out. Good luck with your grafts.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: my mom's guava
« on: January 21, 2019, 11:41:25 PM »
Thatís a huge fruit!


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Which are Poly embryonic Mangoes
« on: January 21, 2019, 11:39:53 PM »
All three of those varieties you listed are Polyembryonic sometimes but they can also have Monoembryonic seeds. Manilla and Caraboa are almost always Polyembryonic but Coconut Cream can be mono more frequently.


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