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Messages - shah8

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Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« on: February 12, 2016, 05:42:34 PM »
I'm interested too.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Whitman Langsat?
« on: February 11, 2016, 07:05:33 PM »
You're in for a treat.  The fruit from the Grimal farm back in the late '90s were superb, but could never get the seedlings to enthusiastically grow.  Very much not houseplant friendly.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Peluche loquat
« on: February 11, 2016, 01:51:04 PM »
I wouldn't know--this was a tree picked up at Pike years ago.  If it's a seedling, it's not far from a eating variety, since the ripe fruit is very pleasant acid-sweet (and I pick these a bit early to beat the animals).  I've been assuming that it was a seedling of Champagne.  Generally ripens in at Atlanta around the end of May through early June.  More like June.  I don't think, though, that you have to go very far south to find regularly producing loquats.  My main problem is the low fruit set, aside from the fact that most winters kill the fruit.  The last warm winter, a late frost got 'em, I think.  I really need a pollenator, but can't plant another tree.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Peluche loquat
« on: February 10, 2016, 06:53:17 PM »

My tree in Atlanta will produce in June if winter doesn't get to about 18 degrees F.  Isn't that normal?  Or are we talking about nearly ripe fruit?

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Help - which Paw Paw variety to take?
« on: January 13, 2016, 08:18:21 PM »
Sunflower is mainstream for a reason.

Wells isn't that highly thought of.

You should get two for less hassle pollination.  Pawpaws tries not to self-pollinate.

I'd probably go with Davis, NC1, Sunflower, and Prolific.  Pick one of those.

Maybe see if you can't get plants from if it checks out as reliable...

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Eugenia candolleana
« on: January 09, 2016, 02:16:24 AM »
My plant turned out definitely to be candolleana, and I picked the fruit earlier today--should have let it go for another few days.

I don't think it's much like a plum.  It's sweet tart, with a definite sweetness, but the taste is thin and there is a sort of light floral bitterness.  The overall character, if not the flavor, is roughly of alpine strawberries.  I definitely could eat a lot of these, but I'd rather have an actual cambuca that this was supposed to be.  I also came away with more respect for a suriname cherry.  Those guys do have a very solid flavor.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Eugenia? to ID
« on: December 15, 2015, 05:39:28 PM »
My plant does have a single fruit on it.  Seems to take a long time from fruit set ~mid-October to ripening (about .75inches long, now).  It still could be candolleana, but this unripe fruit is slightly bumpy like guavas, and is very very slightly hemispheroid, like a cantaloupe.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« on: December 12, 2015, 01:46:19 PM »
you're picking those a little too early.  That skin needs to be dull and more matte.

I suppose this requires people to be successful getting one big plant of E. Dysenterica, but wouldn't that be one of the cerrado curse plants where it's possible and desirable to graft onto more tolerant rootstock, especially as cold hardy as you can get?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« on: November 16, 2015, 09:46:53 PM »
Don't I know it!!

and many others over the years.

Taxonomy can be fun, though.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Eugenia or Black Sapote
« on: October 25, 2015, 11:52:51 PM »
Canistel or Abiu are closer to what you want.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Eugenia Florida
« on: August 25, 2015, 09:26:42 PM »
The pictures were pretty surprising to me.  E. Florida is much less like E Candolleana with close up pictures than I though, using the pictures I had been going by.  Thanks for them!

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Plinia rivularis
« on: August 13, 2015, 06:11:48 PM »
By the by, as I was ransacking the internets to figure out what my plant was, I found an old RFCI Australia fact sheet on the native fruits of Brazil--from 1991!

It has Plinia Rivularis on it as well as common Jaboticaba, but not Cambuca or any of the other relatives of Jaboticabas.  Also a couple of other fruits that are obscure today.  I thought this was very weird when I found it.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Eugenia candolleana
« on: August 08, 2015, 12:31:12 AM »
You sure are we that what we know and have is E. candolleana rather than, say E. convexinervia (as an example)?  I mean, if one looks at the dried leaf botany selections for candolleana, the leaves are quite a bit less lanceolate.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Eugenia to ID
« on: August 08, 2015, 12:18:31 AM »
Well, how many Eugenias have red fruit of that apparent size?  E. multicosta, anything else?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Eugenia to ID
« on: August 08, 2015, 12:06:03 AM »
This basically looks like some strain of E. pyriformis which is quite poorly characterized, as there are a number of very different strains.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: and another jaboticaba to ID
« on: August 04, 2015, 01:41:05 PM »
Dang, do they have Myrtacae Police at the borders, checking for hash, powder, and jaboticabas?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cambucá and other trees
« on: July 30, 2015, 07:11:31 PM »
The plant is in in nearly full sun with only a bit of dappled shade in late afternoon, to the point that there has been issue with leaf burning earlier in the year.  The plant doesn't flush inside the house.  Drops some older leaves in the spring.  Leaf size has been getting bigger more or less as the plant has gotten bigger.  Leaves on older, lower branches are small and more lanceolate, while leaves on branches near the top tend to be four to five inches in length and relatively wide.

The flowers that bloomed yesterday had their petals gone today.  It's the first I have heard that dim lighting will affect flower size and shape.  Does not seem to be true of citrus or E. uniflora.  What exactly does low light do to flowers?

Seed variation doesn't have enough explanatory power when you have to check against all of Myrtacae, it seems.  I mean, the right seedlings of E. victoriana and M. aureana probably can get a least a double take before closer inspection...

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cambucá and other trees
« on: July 30, 2015, 12:03:59 PM »
There are a number of plinias that bloom with racemes, and apparently some stressed/young jaboticaba sp. will flower in a non-cauliflorous manner.  As far as I can tell, them taxonomists out there separate eugenia from plinia/marliera/myciara mostly by whether a fruit has a semi-stiff shell and gelatinous pulp or whether it has a thin skin and fleshy pulp. 

I had to borrow someone's time as well as ipod, since she insisted on using it herself, so I'd rather not ask again.  The flowers are at least minimally similar to pics here of candolleana.  How are candolleana flowers distinct from other eugenia?  Also, it does seem that different seedlings of candolleana have slightly different flowers.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cambucá and other trees
« on: July 30, 2015, 02:04:14 AM »
Not gunna trust nothing until I see the ripe fruits, though.  Not kidding when I say the growth habit is wrong--the candolleana cold-hardiness thread and the one-page eugenia candolleana thread both show fairly large plants that essentially grows like surinam cherries, especially in the sense that there are so many low branches and it's all bushy.  Could be a product of how it was grown and managed to survive my incompetence and pot-boundedness.

thing many myrciara species can look so much like another sp.  I also have a hard time believing that there's a twenty year tradition of Brazilians substituting candolleana for P. edulis.

It's not as if it's like the Grimal, with those readily identifiable huge petals...I've been wondering for a while just how close the Grimal is to Paulista and Sabara, genetically.  With as good a look at just how closely even relatively distant relatives can look to each other...

So Adam, do your candolleana leaves have much aromatic oils in them?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cambucá and other trees
« on: July 30, 2015, 12:18:46 AM »
So the flowering happened today...

Didn't get a great picture of the flowers.  Substantially similar to E Candolleana in longer, not very rounded petals.  Early in the day, the petals were folded back, away from the petals, but later, when these were taken, the petals were forward, around the stamens.  The flowers did have a scent, enough to easily be sniffable, but not anything like as strong as the Grimal.  The scent isn't as nice, either, smelling something like a weaker narcissus with a little honeysuckle sweetness.  You could say there is an onion/garlic note, but it's more narcissus.

The leaves are a bit like E Candolleana, but they are generally bigger and flatter than E. Candolleana.  I took a picture of a leaf that was 10cm in length, and they can go to at least 12.5cm in length.

At the bottom, the trunk has zero inclinations to sucker, and the tree seems to actively neglect lower branches in favor of higher branches in a spreading format.  The bottom is smooth, with a mottled gold and copper look.  As you go up higher it's a stronger reddish copper smoothness, until you hit bark that hasn't flaked off yet.  It mostly flakes off rather in chips rather than peels off.  Above a point, you have grayish bark with tiny longitudinal ridges, with areas higher that that has flaked off to copper as well.

In addition to seeking the sort of tree shape a M. Trunciflora or P. Rivularis tend to want to have, in the lower areas of the bark, you can find fissures.  These are smaller than what Adam has shown in the JA thread, and there's no signs of a branch, though I might be able to believe that a branch once existed there.  They are hard to see in this image, but the trunk in the forefront has circular patches of copper in the middle of bark area where fissures are, and the background trunk has fissures at the very bottom of the image.

The young leaves have very little red pigmentation that quickly fades.  They are shinier than mature leaves, and have no fuzz.

I basically have no real idea what this is, because it seems that most of these genus and species borrow from a very similar set of different ideas, and you generally need to match multiple traits.  There is also difficulties in making assumptions, because different subspecies/varietals have have some pretty different features. 

So I figure that

1)  However unlikely that is, some kind of Stopper from S. Florida?  Main problem is that the leaves probably should be highly aromatic, when these are not. 

2)  Eugenia Candolleana?  Tree was got before many people knew about E. candolleana.  The leaves are bigger than what Candolleana should be.  It doesn't shed bark annually.  It grows very much like how a jaboticaba would grow, particularly trunciflora, vexator, etc, and not like any of the Eugenias (at least not the fast growing ones like Candolleana).  I also get the sense that Candolleana is more of an upright grower when it gets bigger, rather than the general umbrella, almost weeping shape this tree is.

3)  Eugenia florida?  It's not supposed to have smooth red skin on the trunk, but this tree does have the sort of maybe rough grayish bark...maybe?  The leaves are almost big enough, per Helton, and I suspect this would have been more common than E. candolleana in the 90s.

4)  Some kind of Plinia that's much like Rivularis or Trunciflora.  Again, leaves are bigger than most known myrtacae, and are certainly bigger than previous mentioned species.  It's not grandiflora or aureana.

5)  A uvaia with much bigger than normal leaves.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cambucá and other trees
« on: July 23, 2015, 03:52:22 PM »
I have, countless times, by now.

If you crush your candolleana leaves, do you get strong fragrance?  I can only get a hint of that green-nutmeg scent, by crushing really hard and smelling hard, and it doesn't smell quite right even then.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cambucá and other trees
« on: July 22, 2015, 11:25:34 PM »
At this point, I've also entertained Stoppers and other rarer ornamentals--have had to drop b/c only Simpson's has red bark, otherwise not a match.

Substantial red coloration of the bark is a pretty good way of eliminating a lot of suspects.  E. florida, floribunda has been eliminated, various uvaias clearly don't have big enough leaves.

Pretty much left with:

Eugenia Candolleana

+ looks right, flowers right, has red bark

-  Leaves on my tree slightly too large on average--some are 10cm in length, not vigorous (when it has been happy, never grew substantially, has taken size before it would really grow much) Also sounds like it's a more regular shedder of bark compared to mine, lastly acquired before it was well known, wrong color fruit to be described as cambuca.

Plinia Renatiana

+ e-jardim seems to say it has bark like cambuca/psidium, so red bark, online dried collections from Brazil (but not F Guiana) shows proper leaf, flowering, good faith collection would have a fruit similar to cambuca.  E-jardim shows growing tip on top of seedling that is exactly like how mine (and candolleana, and P. rivularis, etc) is colored and grows.  Known as a cambuca variant in Brazil.

- relying on minimal description, average leaves are described to be a bit bigger than mine

Will borrow a camera as soon as it actually blossoms.

Personal experience...Jaboticabas are awesome houseplants.  They can take a reasonable amount of abuse (not really neglect, just not super-green finger folks) and will still flower (which smells great) and fruit for you in pots.


He means, are you using water from the city or well water that might be too hard?  Also, are you using fertilizer or something else that has lots of salts?

Also, stop with the sun stuff.  Don't ask people to voice your own concerns so you can feel right.

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