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Messages - greenman62

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1076
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: watering papayas
« on: January 14, 2015, 10:35:03 AM »
laidbackdood
mine would wilt in the summer heat, especially in direct sun
i would spray the leaves with a hose. that perks them right up.

I read a paper recently that said plants stop growing over a certain temp.
i forgot the exact number, but, it was in the upper 90s i think.
and the test was on several species,, including papaya.

They said to do whatever it takes to cool the plant off...
water, shade etc...

"some of the lower leaves are going yellow"
They do that normally.
The life of a leaf is 4 to 6 months.
They pull what nutrients they can, back into the plant, before they rid themselves of the leaf.
As long as its only the bottom OLDER leaves, i wouldnt worry about yellowing.

---
Iron deficiency causes yellowing of the newest foliage. The leaf veins remain green while the tissue between the veins turns a pale yellow
Though iron deficiency is the most common problem, manganese and zinc deficiencies may occur as well and mimic the symptoms of iron deficiency.
https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/bp/bp-27.html
---

They dont like consistently wet soil. that is the #1 killer of papaya in my experience.
and from talking to other people.

"when should i sprinkle some food around the drip line please"
if you do use organics, i would do it right away.
organics are not readily available to the plant.
they have to be broken down by microbes etc... first
They respond really well to chicken poo, worm castings + worm tea, urine, and fish emulsion.
also to well rotted coffee grounds.

i dont like using chemicals either, but, mangofang is correct,
they are heavy feeders. So, they do need  a lot of nitrogen.

Urine is very high in nitrogen, its lower in P and K
but, they are still present in usable quantities.
a ratio of NPK of about 11:1:2

http://www.inspirationgreen.com/index.php?q=four-times-the-size-of-an-unfertilized-tomato.html&start=20

http://growlighting.blogspot.com/2011/02/human-urine-for-fertilizer-is-top-notch.html

Make sure you dilute urine 1 part pee/10 parts water.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/09/090918-urine-ash-fertilizer.html

Epsom Salts also a great addition for papaya ferts.
i sprinkle 1 or 2 tablespoons around the base of the plant.
ive noticed excellent results from this.
i think magnesium uptake is one of the limiting factors of the fast growth of papaya.
(at least in MY soil)
it seemed to make the leaves a darker green also.

1077
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: watering papayas
« on: January 13, 2015, 04:38:48 PM »
i am a bit more wet and humid here in New Orleans
but, i do use sand in my container papaya, and the local soil here is a fine river-sand.

To me, there is no better way to tell if they need water than just by feeling the soil.
dig down a couple of inches  (away from the plant as not to disturb the roots)
and see how wet it is.
sometimes even sand is deceiving if it has some OM in it.

i heavily mulch mine and went 4 weeks with no rain at all.
temps in the low 90s (33 to 35C)
i felt the ground under the mulch, and it was still somewhat moist.
i didnt water them because i wanted them to develop deeper roots.

they are amazingly drought tolerant.

not suggesting that, im just saying with some mulch
they can go a lot longer without water.

1078
Just curious
are you using these ?
Do you find they work ?

i grow lots of stuff,, often from seed
including papaya which is actually an herb
i know these stimulants are big in the marijuana growing community
but, they also spend tons of $ on that stuff
i have to be much more frugal.

What i would like is  a stimulant for small growing plants and roots.
Stronger plants when small are critical for papaya.

Also, something to induce, or speed flowering would be nice as well.

i am looking at Atonic and IBA-K (water soluble)

http://massspectrumbotanicals.com/category/horticulture-aids/plant-growth-regulators/

any ideas ?

1079
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Soilless mix: alternative to peat moss?
« on: January 12, 2015, 05:44:32 PM »
ive been adding sand to my mix
the local sand here is very fine, almost too fine to use in a container
unless i use a small percentage, and lots of other stuff with large particles.
about %20 of sand mixed with my compost]
and whatever potting soil is on sale.

mainly ive been using builders sand.
its coarse and large-grained.
works great with papaya
i also use lots of perlite.
the place i bought mine only had 2 sizes.
minuscule, and super-huge.
i got the super-huge. so, i use a lot of it
10 to %15



i need to find pine-bark fines
i had used them in the past, and was really happy with them
haven seen them for sale around here at all lately.

1080
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Papaya Relative Thread
« on: January 08, 2015, 03:55:55 PM »
if you have a magnifying lens, look real close at those specs
and try to brush them off.
if it is latex, they will come off.

i just realized you are in Reykjavík...
WOW !!
No wonder you have a hard time finding fresh fruit !
i guess i would want to grow my own as well.

and i thought it was a pain for me, because New Orleans is too cold in the winter
to grow some of the tropicals... LOL

good luck

1081
i am in New Orleans (zone 9b)
and even though its rare for it to get below freezing
2-3 times a year, it was 27F this morning.
some years it never freezes, but, sometimes we get one like today.
I am in the same boat.
i want to buy 2-3 mango trees really bad
but, i am worried that even if i keep it alive
2u8F would kill all the flowers or small fruit.

Someone told me to get a Chok Anon since it flowers twice a year
bypassing that problem. ???
Someone else told me to get a Glenn since it is a strong tree
and would come back if damaged.

I have a Florigon in a container about 3ft tall
i may put it in the ground in the spring
and see how it does next winter before buying some large trees.


1082
im interested in the inga

will it work in 9a/9b ?
I am in New Orleans
most of the winter is very mild, but we get 2-3 cold snaps
this morning was 27 (coldest since last winter)
some years it barely breaks 32 though.

1083
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Papaya Relative Thread
« on: January 08, 2015, 08:02:35 AM »
Yes, thats what my monoica seeds look like
- still hasnt sprouted.
the pubescens seeds looked more like a papaya seed,
if i remember right.

how long did it take for your Monoica to germinate ?

those speckles or "hairs", could they be latex ?
my regular papaya will pt out microscopic calls of latex at times
maybe when its cold or damaged ?
It might be a defense mechanism.

you should try a well tree-ripened solo
fantastic flavor.
some of the maradols do have a distinctive (smelly feet) musk
but, i find when well ripened it goes away.
They yellows dont really have that at all.
The musky smell is also variety dependent. maybe try another store...
i LOVE papaya, but, ive had some that wee funky
is there a Mexican/spanish store near you ?

1084
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Multi species plant fusion
« on: January 07, 2015, 04:40:11 PM »
im wondering if this wold work as easy
or, perhaps even easier, with 2 similar species ?

It would be nice to have a cold-hardy papaya.

lots of people have tried cross pollination with papaya relatives
there was some work at a few universities, but, the papaya ringspot virus took center stage
when it comes to genetic manipulation.

i had 2 papaya growing out of the same hole once.
they were entangled pretty good.
i thought for sure they would grow together
but after they got 3ft tall, i just killed one
to  give the other a chance to produce fruit.

i might have to throw some seeds together to see what happens

1085
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Papaya Relative Thread
« on: January 07, 2015, 04:14:50 PM »
i think i have some, but like you , no label
and got confused with the 20 papaya i have growing.
i have 1 a foot or so tall that has a purpleish trunk
i think (hope) thats the C. pubescens

i just bought some C. monoica seeds
i only got 5,, so im saving 4 for the spring
and planted 1 seed the other day, no sign yet.

1086
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What to grow in tropical wet/dry climate?
« on: January 03, 2015, 05:28:59 PM »
grumichama, surinam cherry...
i would think of cacti also, besides dragonfruit.
opuntia is very trouble-free.
3 types of guava ? you can add to that easily.
i have a ton of seeds from my Mexican Cream.

1087

Mine didnt fair quite as good.
but, it got down to 28F here (New Orleans)
just for a few hours though.
that was mid - November

the one in the planter in the front of my house, did a lot better
it still has all its fruit.... but lost most of its leaves
 still had 5 or 6 large leaves left though.
some new ones are growing out now.



1088
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Papaya seeds on Ebay
« on: January 03, 2015, 05:13:13 PM »
if yu want a short papaya tree, you can cut the top off.
it wont fruit any lower, but it will certainly limit the height.
i top mine twice a year
just 1 or 2 inches is all they need.

i have a few varieties, one fruits about 20-24 inches off the ground

i did order papaya seeds off ebay a few time
once was from a small seller, who said it was an heirloom tree
the seeds were sent in a envelope and were crushed completely.
(they did refund me the $3)

at least 2 other times i got seeds from ebay
no problems.

1089
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Christmas Tree Mulch?
« on: January 01, 2015, 01:47:04 PM »
my neighbor had 2 pine trees, and i used to pick the cones up (and needles, but mostly cones)
and add them to the garden as mulch,, for years i did this.
he got rid of the trees, but the planter had years worth of decaying cones and needles
i planted 2 papaya in there, and they really took off.
i went 2 years without adding anything to it, and it was still rich "compost" like stuff
when you dig down...

now i am adding leaves and grass clippings, but, its not the same
they break down much faster.
i am eyeing up a couple of pine trees on the roadway near here
the cones are great stuff IMO, the needless are a bit of a pain to get up
unless you have a wide rake and several big trees.

1090
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Highest yielding fruit trees?
« on: January 01, 2015, 01:37:03 PM »
in warm climates papaya is consistently fruiting
and has a lot of fruit per tree.



i have a mulberry which puts out a ton of fruit
but, only for 2 weeks.

as far as calories, i would think a sweet fruit would be more calorie dense than a nut
though the nut might be healthier.

1091
i was looking to do some crossing a while back
my pubescens were bad the first time
the second time i forgot them outside when i went on vacation.
i just got some monoica seeds in though.

i have some links i saved if you want
it may (or may not) have the info you want
some is kinda interesting anyway.

(even though some links say papaya, they might have info on Vasconcellea  too)

------------------------

Rapid divergence and expansion of the X chromosome in papaya.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22869742

The origin of the non-recombining region of sex chromosomes in Carica and Vasconcellea.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20579309

A dated phylogeny of the papaya family (Caricaceae) reveals the crop's closest relatives and the family's biogeographic history.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22659516


THE AMBISEXUAL FORM OF Carica pubescens Lenné at Koch ANALIZED IN INTERSPECIFIC CROSSES
http://www.caryologia.unifi.it/past_volumes/61_4/1530.pdf

Interspecific hybridization of papaya with other Carica species
http://agris.fao.org/agris-search/search.do?recordID=US8933375

Fluorescent in situ hybridization of 18S and 5S rDNA in papaya
(Carica papaya l.) and wild relatives
http://www.caryologia.unifi.it/past_volumes/61_4/1530.pdf

1092
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Brace for Frost!
« on: December 28, 2014, 03:27:37 PM »
We had one day in early November it got down to 28F
but, only for a few hours
it was 45 when i wen to bed, and by 11am it was back in the over 40F

the weatherman missed it by like 8 degrees, and i lost some plants. :(
only in containers though, the ones in the ground were OK
since ground temps didnt get a chance to really drop...

since then it hasnt dipped below 40-42
its still early in the year though. Sometimes we get a freeze in Feb,
 or even early March.
i have Papaya, Carob, Cherimoya, mulberry and Lychee putting out new growth in the unheated greenhouse.
Jackfruit and the more sensitive stuff seem dormant, but OK and still have leaves.

Gary,
dont let those papaya roots get wet.

1093
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: mango varieties - from seed - taste?
« on: December 28, 2014, 12:30:50 PM »
I have no experience with your zone, but it can totally be done.
gunnar
It can be done, meaning you know people who grow mango in Zone 9b ?
i read about people growing them, but didnt see reports of fruit.
i was worried even a light freeze could interrupt the flowering process ?

I kinda do have the room for a few trees. Even if i run out here, i can put some on my rental properties
so, yes, i probably will grow several of these and plant them out when i think they can take the cold.
Then, i can graft to them, or even top-work them.

good to know the ataulfo should taste good from seed.
i dont mind the wait with the seedlings, since i will probably buy 1 or 2 plants
probably 3 gallon.... and i have the Florigon too.
i got a Jaboticaba and a Starfruit from Pine Island last year, and was totally happy with them.
i am thinking of Glenn and NDM

Gary
thanks for the info on the roots.
i now have a perfect spot near the South wall of the house
i do the same thing with my papaya. it actually grows roots under the house
and survives light frost rather well.

 zands
Quote
Sprout every mango seed you get and you will learn a lot just by watching and experimental grafting
thats one thing i dont have much experience in is grafting
i might try on my large satsuma orange first. then the seedlings
i am sure i will be eating more mango soon anyway :)

DurianLover
yes, we are more humid here and get more rainfall. its all year round here.
i may look around for a cultivar that is more resistant to humidity

thanks much everyone !

1094
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cold hardy mango trials
« on: December 28, 2014, 11:49:45 AM »

In New Orleans Zone 9b
also very interested.

You can plant as many Mango trees here as you like,
and i will be happy to taste test them for you :)

1095
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Kiwi's
« on: December 24, 2014, 02:45:45 PM »
Do commercial kiwi cultivars actually produce viable seed? I mean, could one just go down to the store, pick up some kiwifruit  and follow that process? (if they need four months of stratification then surely they can take refrigeration during shipping...)  I had just assumed that, like commercial bananas, they'd been bred to the point of infertility.

If it were possible, even if ones odds of getting a good plant were low, it could still be a way to get a male for pollination since kiwi is monoecious.


i was going to ask this myself.
Kiwi does have seeds
banana from the store do not - im pretty sure.
i dont know if that seed is viable or not?
also, the variety i think is the "Hayward "

 Hayward, does best with a winter rest of 800 hours of chilling (defined as total hours between 32° and 45° F.)

(such as southern California, southern Texas, and Florida), cultivars such as Elmwood, Dexter, Abbott, or Vincent would be more suitable. In very mild winter areas the vines may retain their leaves and fail to flower the following season. Kiwi vines can be successfully grown in large containers.
Seeds from store bought fruit may be planted in the spring
http://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/kiwifruit.html

They do need a winter chill in order to produce fruit, so you can’t grow kiwi anywhere warmer than zone 8.
 Different varieties have different temperature requirements, so you should try to buy plants that suit your climate.
http://www.gardeningblog.net/how-to-grow/kiwi/

Fuzzy Female varieties need Fuzzy Males to set fruit
Fuzzy Varieties (Actinidia deliciosa)
http://www.justfruitsandexotics.com/JFE/product-category/berry-plants/kiwi/

Vincent Female Kiwi – Low Chill Kiwi!
Even though she’s named Vincent, this is the female fuzzy kiwi looking for Tomuri. She’s a tasty egg-sized fruit, similar to what you are accustomed to buying in the grocery store. Bred for warmer climates, she requires only 100 chill units, and a growing season of 240 frost-free days to sweeten the fruit. Fruit set is most successful when the winter temperature drops below 32, and Vincent is hardy to 10-15 degrees when mature. Can be grown successfully in a large pot if trellised adequately. Harvest in October. Zones 8-9.
http://www.justfruitsandexotics.com/JFE/product/vincent-kiwi/


How to Grow Kiwi From Store Bought Kiwi Fruit!
http://foodiegardener.com/how-to-grow-kiwi-from-store-bought-kiwi-fruit/



1096
Tropical Fruit Discussion / mango varieties - from seed - taste?
« on: December 24, 2014, 01:37:06 PM »
Hi all
i am in New Orleans (zone 9b),
and am a bit worried about spending lots of $ for a mango tree, when there is a possibility of it
either freezing, or , never bearing fruit, because the flowers fall off
or the fruiting is interrupted due to freezes here.
i have heard of people growing mango in 9b however.
I do plan on buying  a couple of 3 gallon plants in spring
but, want to grow some from seed as well.

So, this brings me to growing some from seed
which costs me nothing really, since i love to eat mango from the store.
i do get good tasting Ataulfos here, and have been growing the seeds out
i have at least 5 seedlings, and a few more seeds in hand.

I have a Florigon in a container, but, only room in the greenhouse
for 1 mango, and this will be it.
So, i want to end up, with 3-5 in my yard as well.

So, the question is, how would an Ataulfo taste grown from seed ?

Also...
any help in determining what variety would grow best here.
Obviously, my first problem is cold weather
the second (i think) is humidity, and high rainfall
(New Orleans has high rainfall all year long)

Would maybe a variety that flowers in the spring be best
 to hedge against frost hurting the small fruit ?

all responses appreciated.
Brad

1097
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango trees growing in zone 9b, Central FL
« on: December 24, 2014, 11:08:49 AM »
this is good news.
i am in New Orleans area.
which is zone 9a, or 9b - depending on the map
and what part of New Orleans...

i grow papaya and most winters i can get a couple through
but, sometimes a hard winter will kill them all
(like last year, killed all 6 mature trees)
i am doing a little addtional proection this year.
tarp, 2ft of mulch, and planting 1 tree very close to the house

i dont know if this will work for mango ?

I have a 3ft Florigon in a pot
i didnt get a chance to take in, when it hit 28F a few weeks ago
(just for a few hours though)
it has minor leaf damage, but , seems OK.

Is the main problem loosing flowers and small fruit ??
arent most varieties flowering in the fall and early winter ?
i would think winter temps killing the fruit is the biggest concern
no ?

any variety someone can suggest for me
for cold (and often wet) winters ?

1098


You wanted pods to make tea with ?
i had a ton of them before the freeze.
my first attempt at drying them out resulted in fungus
2nd time i threw them in the freezer.

i have some seeds.
my plants took a hit 2 weeks ago at 27F
so everything died except the trunk of 1 plant.
saw a couple of flowers last week, but , its pretty much done.

1099
cherimoya and sapote
you can nick the seeds, or, just put in hot water for a day
(i change the water (re-heat) 3-4 times)

the guava and strwberry guava should not be a problem

With the Chilean guava, i had trouble
i may have had bad seed though ?
anyone know if something special is needed for Chilean Guava ?

1100
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Zone Pushing the Sapote Family
« on: December 17, 2014, 08:22:01 AM »
i love papaya too,
and am growing mountain papaya to graft too.
for some reason i havent had much success in grafting though.
but, after a few years of growing papaya, i just learned to create a mound
on a high spot in the yard to stop the root-rot.
also, mychorizal fungi helps.

ive heard people successfully graft to Babacco,, so,, good luck.

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