I am in New Orleans
and grew a Mamey from seed about 4 years ago.
it was looking pretty nice last fall.
We had 1 day in January that was colder than normal
and i thought it had bit the dust.
I was waiting to use the container for something else
so, i hadnt removed the dead plant yet.

In the beginning of September, i finally was going to tackle the chore.
and ... WTF ?
it was coming back !

By the way, has anyone ever seen a leech in their yard ?
Is this a vector for disease ?



Leech i found in my backyard


Leech 


Mamey yesterday


Mamey first week of Sept 2017


Mamey in Nov 2016


My Naranjilla
 (never had the fruit before)

Quote from: greenman62 on September 06, 2017, 01:09:50 PM

sorry, some guys lab results is not science.

Ya think?  That's ridiculous.   I'm sure Carlos would deliberately choose and pay some pot shot, partisan lab to do his tests. 

Tell ya what, how 'bout you call 'em up, or visit in person - Denele Analytical, Inc. Environmental and Agricultural Analysts and tell them their full of shit.    (209) 634-9055

i didnt questions lab results.
i also didnt question intention or ethics.

all i see is a snapshot.
there is no before and after, no timeline
no CONTROL PLOT.

what was the starting density ?
what was the moisture content before and after
(did it just rain? - what was the PH of any moisture input ? N content ?)
temperature ?
did someone add compost a week before, and its just breaking down during the test ?

by "microbial activity" it could mean that the chemicals
killed all the good biology, and there is an explosion of root-not nematodes and anaerobic microbes
eating up all the dead microbes.
or...
Maybe this works for 1 week, then it all goes to hell ?

this is off the top of my head
there are im sure a dozen more parameters which would need to be taken into account
before anything remotely called science can be attached to 1 number.

i recently watched a video on youtube
where a guy over-waters daily, and it was to show that it only made his plants grow faster.

However, i agree with Simon, lots of things go into how fast a plant looses and uses water
from wind and humidity to soil type and drainage
to mulch and organic matter
to the species and size of the plant.

sticking my finger down an inch or 2  near (but not right at) the trunk
si a good way to sense moisture.

To me, the main issue is the microbiology in the rhizosphere.
the microbes right at the root zone.
they need to function properly and the roots need to absorb O2 and also need to off-gas CO2.

if the water becomes anaerobic the biology goes out of whack and harms the plant.
so in a steady rain, or if the water is moving
there is less of a problem.

i have several things for trade.

i am looking for cuttings/scions of mango, loquat, longan, starfruit
and other.
or possibly seeds, seedlings of species/varieties i do not have
(whatcha got ?)

i have butterfly (white) ginger  - edible flowers /medicinal
guava seedlings, scions of Mexican cream

Maypop (passiflora incranata)
i love this passionflower... it flowers and fruit when small, and is very easy to grow
(grows wild in places in South Louisiana)
and everbearing dwarf Mulberry cuttings.

Quote from: greenman62 on August 30, 2017, 03:59:14 PM

i have Inga, Tamarind, and Manila Tamarind too
but they are too small or in containers,
 so havent used them to fix N for other plants yet.

Tamarind doesn't fix nitrogen. The Inga and Pithecellobium do.

actually, they didnt think so
but it looks now like it does, at least some of the time.

https://books.google.com/books?id=QhtZLMVPLIIC&pg=PA67&lpg=PA67&dq=Tamarind


Also, i just found out Jujube seems to fix N, at least to some degree

 novel Gram-positive, rod-shaped, motile, spore-forming, nitrogen-fixing bacterium, designated strain 7188(T), was isolated from jujube rhizosphere soil in Beijing, China.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22763811
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25937453

also, for those interested...
Forage Tree Legumes in Tropical Agriculture
http://www.fao.org/ag/AGP/AGPC/doc/Publicat/Gutt-shel/x5556e00.htm#Contents

I've always understood that nitogen fixers trap their nitogen and it's not released until you chop and drop.

there are a few types of N fixing plants that work differently.
Legumes have nodules on the roots.
those nodules die off on a regular basis (weekly, daily?)
and release N into the surrounding soil.

The roots do have to be in close proximity to some degree
but i think rain will  move some of the N a bit (inches, feet?)

i have not found the intermingling of roots to be a huge issue.
the rhizosphere (area of microbial interaction) around the roots
is fractions of an inch
so roots 2 inches apart really do not bother each other
but one can gain benefit from the others nitrogen.

plants in close proximity also have mycorrhizal interactions
where they share water, phosphorus and other minerals.
its kinda like extending both root systems.

There are several types of N microbes associated with nitrogen fixation.
and several types of N fixing plants.

Legumes have nodules on  the roots
these nodules die often and release nitrogen to the surrounding soil.

There are other "free living" type rhizobia.

Yeah, the leaves and stems are great mulch, but the real benefit is from the bacteria.
it is used on a regular basis in agriculture, (like soy) planted before corn and such...

--------

 "Nodules on annuals are short-lived and will be replaced constantly during the growing season"
http://www.csun.edu/~hcbio027/biotechnology/lec10/lindemann.html

All the nitrogen-fixing organisms are prokaryotes (bacteria). Some of them live independently of other organisms - the so-called free-living nitrogen-fixing bacteria. Others live in intimate symbiotic associations with plants or with other organisms (e.g. protozoa).

In addition to these intimate and specialised symbiotic associations, there are several free-living nitrogen-fixing bacteria that grow in close association with plants. For example, Azospirillum species have been shown to fix nitrogen when growing in the root zone (rhizosphere) or tropical grasses, and even of maize plants in field conditions. Similarly, Azotobacter species can fix nitrogen in the rhizosphere of several plants. In both cases the bacteria grow at the expense of sugars and other nutrients that leak from the roots.

http://archive.bio.ed.ac.uk/jdeacon/microbes/nitrogen.htm

 nitrogen fixation by legumes can be in the range of 25–75 lb of nitrogen per acre per year in a natural ecosystem, and several hundred pounds in a cropping system

Other grain legumes, such as peanuts, cowpeas, soybeans, and fava beans, are good nitrogen fixers and will fix all of their nitrogen needs other than that absorbed from the soil. These legumes may fix up to 250 lb of nitrogen per acre and are not usually fertilized (Walley et al., 1996; Cash et al., 1981). In fact, they usually don’t respond to nitrogen fertilizer as long as they are capable of fixing nitrogen. Nitrogen
Perennial and forage legumes, such as alfalfa, sweet clover, true clovers, and vetches, may fix 250–500 lb of nitrogen per acre

 // Almost all of the fixed nitrogen goes directly into the plant. However, some nitrogen can be “leaked” or “transferred” into the soil (30–50 lb N/acre) for neighboring non-legume plants (Walley et al., 1996). //

http://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_a/A129/

What kind of bean are you planting? I sure have a few things that I would like to try something new.
Thanks

i actually found a bag of mixed beans a few years ago.
(must have been 20+ varieties)
i planted tons of them all over
after several months you could tell which ones worked/grew better  here.
the plants (2 types) were just stronger, grew faster and flowered faster than the others.
1 is a black bean, the other is brown.
After a couple of years of just replanting the strongest ones
i feel i have the best ones i can get for my climate.
It seems they do a good job of fixing N also.

Senna Obtusifolia is another N fixing plant that grows well here
i have been saving seed and replanting with just the stronger plants.

i also use black locust, honey locust, autumn olive, Goumi
and Indian Trumpet (Oroxylum indicum)

Oroxylum indicum is a very odd plant
i have it fixing N for a Juju and a Mulberry
it has some edible and medicinal properties.
http://tropical.theferns.info/viewtropical.php?id=Oroxylum+indicum
http://www.itmonline.org/arts/oroxylum.htm

i have Inga, Tamarind, and Manila Tamarind too
but they are too small or in containers,
 so havent used them to fix N for other plants yet.

I had a couple of plants, in containers and in ground
that were either sluggish putting on new growth
or, had yellowing leaves.
After giving them some iron and magnesium, worm castings and compost
and only marginal gains, i tried planting several nitrogen fixers near the roots.

My understanding is most N chemical fertilizers wash through the soil quickly.
With a N fixing plant, i think it acts more like a slow-release.
it also does not harm soil bacteria or fungi like chemicals.

ive seen a couple of very nice gains.
I dont like using chemical ferts. I use dry organic on rare occasions in small amounts
and use liquid fish, worm castings, or compost normally.

This seems to be a solution in certain applications for me.
I also think certain species fix N better than others
and some may be better for particular species
maybe bean is better with Plinia and Senna is better with Coffee ?
it would be nice to have a database showing which ones work better for what fruit trees...

Imbe
cant find a pic, but these leaves were very yellow.



Red Jabo... was chlorotic. Iron and Magnesium had not helped.
compost  gave me only very minimal gains
i planted 3 bean seeds about 10 inches from the trunk
in 2 weeks the leaves greened up nicely
(day was overcast, so pic is yellowish) but leaves are much greener.


Grumichama hadnt pushed growth in several weeks.
4 bean seeds seemed to help.
the 1st pic is with my old camera
 - july


Grumi new growth - today

 

Coffee - greening up leaves


Jabo - pic is from April - after freeze in Jan killed large branches.
was not putting out new growth at all.


Jabo - today - Nitrogen fixers... 4 beans (3 to 4 weeks)
leaf color slowly coming back , still spotty.


Jujube
had to move it from backyard to front.
transplant caused some shock and it wouldnt put out new growth
now its holding fruit and growing fine. leaf color is excellent.

Hi Roy'
do you know the cold-tolerance
of Flacourtia ?

this site says 50 degrees F
https://www.baobabs.com/Fiche2.php?Lang=en&Ref=501

this one says zone 9a
which is the mid 20s F
http://www.tropilab.com/coffeeplum.html

So i am a bit confused.

if i remember right, i got seeds from here...
http://www.tradewindsfruit.com/psidium-acutangulum-para-guava-seeds

and the leaves DO look similar
the problem is, i cant find any authority that can confirm this
often, i search for this plant, and the leaves look just like regular guava leaves.

Once or twice, i found a site showing similar leaves
but the plant was named "Angulatum", not " Acutangulum "

If someone can ID the pics of my plant
at bottom
i would appreciate it

I will leave a few links i found searching
none of which really have helped much...

--------------------------

if you search for Psidium  Acutangulum
USDA.gov website snames  Psidium acutangulum
https://www.ars.usda.gov/pacific-west-area/hilo-hi/daniel-k-inouye-us-pacific-basin-agricultural-research-center/tropical-plant-genetic-resources-and-disease-research/docs/guava-collection/

EOL lists acutangulum, but as  Psidium persoonii
http://eol.org/pages/5454467/details


Global Biodiversity Information Facility - says this...
Accepted Name:  Psidium acutangulum Mart. ex DC.
Synonym =Psidium persoonii McVaugh
https://www.gbif.org/species/5420631

Psidium Angulatum
https://www.gbif.org/species/5929646


The  PLant list, lists   Acutangulum , but not Angulatum
http://www.theplantlist.org/1.1/browse/A/Myrtaceae/Psidium/

as does "The Ferns"
http://tropical.theferns.info/query.php?full=psidium

But... Wiki Species lists Angulatum, but not Acutangulum
https://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/Psidium_angulatum

My plant...

In June we had a tropical depression over us that stalled
dropping record breaking rainfall.
a week later it started raining again
and it rained for 3 weeks taking about 4 to 5 days off.
the ground was mush. a few plants just gave up and surrendered.
we broke several records in 2 months.
several plants like guava , POM, Jujube just never flowered.

Now you guys are getting hit and also South Tx is getting hammered.

i may give up tropical fruit
and start growing Kelp.
i hear its very healthy.