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1
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Super Hass avocado
« on: June 16, 2020, 10:05:56 AM »
Who did the curbs around the trees?

What is the quality of the ripened carmen hass? One of the issues with mexican / guatemalan avocadoes in FL has been uneven ripening.

2
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Super Hass avocado
« on: June 15, 2020, 01:11:22 PM »
Agree, thanks for the info Weiss. If you get a chance, can you post some pix? I have a strong aversion to the west indian avocadoes and am always on the lookout for new hass cultivars that do well here.

3
cmon guys, this thread is getting sidetracked, disrespectful to Bender's memory.

Very bummed to hear this. I've traded trees with him several times over the years. I always referred folks to him, as he was always a great source for hard-to-finds. Always liked going to his place.

4
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango Taproot
« on: April 27, 2020, 10:27:02 AM »
In order to preserve the taproot, you'd really need to graft in situ (ie, plant the seed directly in the ground vs using a pot). Tree pots (long and narrow) can also help to preserve the taproot.

I'm not sure why they would have clipped the taproot. I know that neutering the taproot in mamey / canistel by flipping the seedling upside down and grafting onto the taproot can cause the tree to stay smaller. Perhaps encouraging surface roots could also help with nutrient uptake (by forcing more roots to stay in the nutrient rich top soil)?

However, I haven't found any reason to worry about the taproot one way or the other. The main thing you need to worry about is removing any circling roots (those that take the shape of the pot), as they will eventually strangle the tree, stunt growth, and compromise stability.

5
Nuts!

6
I think we're in agreement there. But, latex paint on an avocado tree certainly isn't mutually exclusive with those goals :-).

I'd say anything that conserves soil and soil health, forests, aquifers, and ocean health is good even though it's not a perfect world.  I hope you guys, Jeff and Mark, don't consider that a radical idea.  (Or call me a freakin' radical, whatever.)  Hey, how about Har's List of Essential Oddities?

7
It's benign.

8
:D Yah, it's gotten overboard. What I find humorous is that Bruce Ames (previous chair of biochem at Berkeley) proved that organic produce is higher in carcinogens than conventional back in the 80's.

Life is full of pendulum swings. In the 40's, 50's and 60's the general public was enamored with lab created foods, pesticides, etc, the mindset being that technology could improve on nature. All sorts of nutty pesticides were used back then, with reckless abandon. (My step-father grew up on a farm during this time period and ended up coming down with cancer in his 60's.)

Then, in the 60's and 70's a small group of folks began pushing against the pesticides of the day (eg, Silent Spring), and in the 80's the organic movement started to rise. Then, somewhere in the 2000's I guess, organic went mainstream and really took root in the millenial generation, who I think viewed it as some sort of counter-cultural ideal.

The EPA has come a long way since the 1960s, and modern pesticides (as well as worker protocols) render their use quite safe. But, the pendulum has swung very hard to the opposite extreme, where the mainstream mindset is that anything produced in a lab is harmful (and contrariwise anything originating in nature is good / beneficial).

The truth almost always lies somewhere in the middle of two extremes. However, it's human nature to polarize on extremes.

We are a country of fearful neurotics and hypochondriacs.  Here's a quote from a SoCal avocado growing group I belong to:

"I've heard a few people mention white washing the bark of your tree and I don't understand why one would need to paint a tree with a chemical based paint? I want all the trees in my yard to be 100% organic. so tell me what white washing is and why it's important? Is it important? I live in Claremont California."

My response:

$%*(@#@$$, so you've run a lab analysis on such painted tissue and found levels of "chemicals" exceed EPA standards, what exactly are those chemicals? 95% of the organic/natural movement is a joke based on fear and ignorance. Having said that I have been pushing a spray of kaolin clay wettable powder not because I'm a fearful neurotic but because it's cheap and a helluva lot easier to mix and apply. https://www.groworganic.com/products/surround-25-lb...

Don't know if Captan would help but it has no REI interval posted on our Aggie vineyard pesticide list.

9
Even the OMRI listed pesticides have a 12+ hour REI. Good old copper oxide (Nordox 75 for example) has a reentry interval of 12 hours. We use copper as cookware, jewelry, plumbing, etc, so it seems a bit overboard to have a 12 hour REI for copper oxide. However, I think the EPA is a bit over conservative with regards to pesticides.

Who needs to worry about coronavirus when you can eat some fruit, that recently received a 12 or 24 hour REI pesticide spray.

10
The backstory on my OS tree (or trees I guess) -- I purchased several dozen OS mangoes from Walter Zill back in 2013 / 2014 (can't remember which year) and planted all of the seeds. From the dozens of sprouts, I selected the 2 that were most identical to the mother tree, both in terms of leaf appearance and sap smell (OS is polyembryonic, so the odds were high of finding a match).

When the seedlings were just a foot tall, I grafted them to a mature glenn that I had recently cut way back. Within 3 years, both flowered and fruited, producing a fruit identical to the mother tree. Both are identical in appearance, flavor, and habit to one another, giving me high confidence that both are indeed clones of the mother tree.

Both have been extremely vigorous -- laughably vigorous -- sending out telephone pole shoots that grow to 10 feet long in a single season (some of which flop over due to the weight).

Fruit set and retention is extremely good (5 - 6 fruits per panicle). However, only small portions of the canopy tend to flower, probably due to the vigor.

I think part of the issue is that the scions were grafted to a glenn that had been cut back quite heavily. Both sides seem to be calming down a bit, so I'm hopeful that next season I'll see more bloom.

Walter's tree, also a topwork onto a mature tree, was huge the last time I saw it. I know there have been reports of the growth being manageable, but perhaps that's only the case in the juvenile period of the tree's life?

That said, my favorite is still lemon zest :-).

That's what I do.

I'd LOVE to plant both... as well as about 30 other varieties!!! ;) ;) ;)

But I was hoping to pare that 30 down to less than a dozen.  :-\

You could always multi-graft and then prune off the limbs of the less desired ones.

Jeff, how productive is your OS? I am thinking of topworking part of my LM into OS. Compatible in terms of vigor and productivity?

11
That's what I do.

I'd LOVE to plant both... as well as about 30 other varieties!!! ;) ;) ;)

But I was hoping to pare that 30 down to less than a dozen.  :-\

You could always multi-graft and then prune off the limbs of the less desired ones.

12
Organza bags.

Jeff,When you say you're bagging them are you using plastic bags of some sort to  encase them, or are you using the fine screen type bags
yep !! I've had to start spraying my jacks and soursops with fungicide. Jury still out on what's up with the annonas. I feel like it could have to do with the seed borer, which opens a pathway for disease. We've been bagging the annonas. Rollinia has also had a terrible problem with fungus / bacterial infection, likely due to seed borers. Growing in FL can be a pain in the neck!

Seems this disease doesn't only affect mangos
This appears to be the same thing on jackfruit and also on soursop, perhaps anonas
I'm going to have to start spraying my jackfruit
I've lost three of them this season.



13
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Bagging Fruit
« on: April 22, 2020, 01:30:13 PM »
organza bags work very well and last several seasons.

14
yep !! I've had to start spraying my jacks and soursops with fungicide. Jury still out on what's up with the annonas. I feel like it could have to do with the seed borer, which opens a pathway for disease. We've been bagging the annonas. Rollinia has also had a terrible problem with fungus / bacterial infection, likely due to seed borers. Growing in FL can be a pain in the neck!

Seems this disease doesn't only affect mangos
This appears to be the same thing on jackfruit and also on soursop, perhaps anonas
I'm going to have to start spraying my jackfruit
I've lost three of them this season.



15
Duncan and rosigold are a bit variable in terms of flavor.

When I had a rosigold tree, the early (march - april) crop was outstanding but the summer crop was not so good.

Early duncan fruit tend to be bland (lacking brix). Later season duncan are very, very good and much sweeter. And the tree is highly disease resistant and very productive.

Edward is pretty much always excellent. I adore that mango.

16
Some of the indo-chinese mangoes will have early fruits that have a washed out flavor (duncan for example). Later in the season, the flavor should intensify.

17
Grafting high can also be good for dwarf mango trees, eg, Julie.

18
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Foliar Feeding: Spraying vs Fogging
« on: April 21, 2020, 10:26:43 AM »
Yep, that's the major drawback. Very hard to put it on and tiring to use. But, then again, it's not that much harder than a conventional / manual backpack sprayer.

Getting me a stihl 450 duster / mistblower for the inaccessible spots.What do you think?mist blowers are very efficient!
I have an older mistblower the weight of that tank especially up high is a real backbreaker. I have to ease into mine by backing into it while it is on a table. They do lift leaves up well into a large tree. I see the stihl 450 is 28 pounds without 14 liter tank and water weighs 2 pounds/liter, woops 28+28= 56 pounds! Pretty much the same as my Solo 423 better eat planty of oatmeal for breakfast, it will eat your lunch for you.

19
Agree. However, they tend to be very finicky, and flavor can be all over the map.

A properly ripened Mallika is very similar in flavor to Lemon Zest.
Agreed, although I find it even more comparable to Orange Sherbet, in fact almost identical

20
I have a theory as to why those bloomed. We had pretty severe drought conditions in March and early April. Then during the first few days of April, the temps dropped a good 15 degrees. I think the drought set some of the trees up to be a bit more sensitive to the temp drop, so when it happened, they pushed blooms.

Still pretty amazing nonetheless.

21
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Weevil Problem
« on: April 20, 2020, 09:20:49 PM »
There is a bayer product that kills grubs, which should be effective on the may beetle (when in the grub stage).

22
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Foliar Feeding: Spraying vs Fogging
« on: April 20, 2020, 03:05:35 PM »
hmm that ryobi looks kina cool. Only issue may be getting to the tops of trees when they get bigger.

23
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Weevil Problem
« on: April 20, 2020, 03:02:56 PM »
Yep, Same. The worst of the worst for weevils is the cuban may beetle, which will completely and totally defoliate an entire tree multiple times in a year. I lost a pantin mamey to them when they defoliated once, then a month later defoliated the new growth. Best technique to get rid of the cuban may beetle has been removing food sources (eg, weeds / grass) from grubs. However, anything planted within 20 - 30 feet of the property line is fair game, 'cause my neighbors all have grass.

They are a problem for younger lychee trees as the leaf munching sets the trees growth back. One it gets older it's not that big of a deal.
For lychee and longan I'd soil drench it just so it can grow without problems for the first 2-3 years after that I'd stop.

This is from my personal experience

24
Regarding the linked article: KNO3 is not an effective flowering stimulant in Florida. It only works at certain latitudes. Paclobutrazol has been effective here, but it was shown to have some really nasty long lasting issues (eg, planting  a mango tree in a location where a tree was previously treated with paclobutrazol will stunt the new tree as well).

From https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/HITAHR_04-06-93_54-60.pdf

"Trees growing the area of Vera Cruz begin to respond later in the year but lose the ability to altogether in areas north of 23 latitude. I have been told that even concentrations sufficiently high to cause substantial leaf burn (10 percent more) are apparently not effective. Trees in both Sinaloa (25 latitude, dry climate) Homestead, Florida (25 latitude, dry climate) do not respond."

And from https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/HITAHR_04-06-93_61-66.pdf

"Recent studies in Florida suggest that low temperature is the environmental factor with the greatest influence on flower induction (Nunez-Elisa and Davenport 1992). It was concluded that water stress was not responsible for flower induction, but could enhance the response to cool temperatures. Similar conclusions have also been obtained by workers in Australia (Whiley 1992). "

Soil and foliar chemicals in gaseous and liquid form, even smoke can also induce and control bloom, perhaps certain varieties more than others. Age of stem and leaf plays a part. Google mango bloom stimulus initiation and you can see research around the world on this.
Like:
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1677-04202007000400007

25
Yah, oddly the keitt 20 feet away from the infected keitt never had a problem with MBBS. The infected keitt, after having near total crop loss for several years, has been relatively disease free for the past 2 crops. I think my spray regimen is working.


Maha Chanok , Mallika, Edgar, Sunrise, Orange Essence..

Interesting, I've noted in the past that certain trees seem resistant for some but not for others, and this is more evidence to that end.

https://www.tropicalacresfarms.com/product-page/mallika
Quote
Mallika is highly prone to bacterial black spot and lost most of the fruit to it

Alex has also stated that Maha has similar issues in his grove.

Also CM has noted that some Keitt trees are sensitive to MBBS while others seem less affected.

Seems like there's a factor involved that needs further investigation.

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