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51
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« on: April 03, 2020, 04:57:21 PM »
:D I don't give my mangoes any nitrogen at all. I use Har's slow release 0-3-16 with minors (https://www.themangoplace.com/fertilizers). You can give mangoes nitrogen when they are fruiting, but you need to ensure that the mango receives enough calcium to mitigate internal breakdown. You might get away with it given your Ca rich soil down in Miami Dade. However, your best bet is to just never feed them with nitrogen (unless they are severely stunted).

Every two weeks is a bit frequent. 3 - 4 times a year is sufficient, especially with a slow release product.

Actually, it was Dr Richard Campbell who popularized the notion that mango trees in this area don't need N.

If your soil does not drain well, be really careful with the irrigation.

CM how can I thank you for that phenomenal response? Certainly not with mangoes!!!!! Seriously though that response cannot be found anywhere I looked in any book or the internet and it was really educational. So it wasn't the water but my constant feeding of a complete 9-3-6 with micros every 2 weeks at the wrong time. Wow really I feel so much better because now I won't repeat that mistake. When can I feed my mango trees? From when to when with that 9-3-6 so I don't kill their urge to reproduce themselves?
Nobody has ever given me such great information before.

52
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« on: April 03, 2020, 12:02:13 PM »
This is all anecdotal, obviously, but I would assume it would be related to nitrogen feeding at the wrong time. Comparing flowering here before and after installation of an irrigation system, I didn't note any differences. The factors that seem to influence production here are:

 - Lack of nutrition (eg, zinc, iron, k, etc) -- very typical here in south florida
 - Lack of cold. Cold seems to be the #1 trigger for reproductive growth here.
 - Production from the previous year (in conjunction with nutrition levels), ie, high production the prev year without replacing nutrients usually means lower production in the current year.
 - Nitrogen applied during the dormancy period.
 - Shade.
 - Over-pruning or pruning at the wrong time of year, which encourages vegetative growth.

With supplemental irrigation, I've got thousands of mangoes on 35 or so mango trees, after having a banner year last year.

Don't get me wrong I'm not complaining but on the subject of this being a bad year as far as fruit production this 2020 season for me is aptly called my nightmare season. I live in Kendall in a nice residential area with 230+ mango trees of about 30+ varieties. I counted every fruit on all the trees and my estimate for 230 trees of which 95 have been in the ground from 3-20 years was 235 fruit. Now what the heck has caused this catastrophe? I only have 2 variables I can blame. Over watering and untimely fertilization. Since I live in a residential area I must keep my lawn looking nice and since we've been in a drought for many months I've had to use the sprinklers a lot. Also I have about 10 potted trees from the nursery as backups in case a tree falters and I can't heal it that have to be watered regularly and I put them in a place where the sprinklers can hit them. So since my sprinklers also hit the mango trees and their roots my trees have been way over watered. Between the over watering and untimely fertilization/fertigation the trees are all spectacularly beautiful and healthy ""BUT"" no fruit to speak of.
As far as what trees did produce as of April 3, 2920 etc.???
Pickering great crop
Rosigold great
Dwarf Hawaiian good with a smaller 2nd crop.
After this a spot here and there. Most spots are on 1 to a few Sweet Tarts and Cotton Candies and a Duncan and a Maha. That means as an example that out of 50 Sweet Tart trees maybe 6 have 1-20 fruit and the others have a big zero. But all total about only 235 fruit.
Next year/season I am not going to turn the sprinklers on or fertilize and I am going to hand water the grass by hand if conditions require """""BUT""""" that too may not work because the roots of my trees are still under the grass!!!!!!!! Jokes on me.
Even my 20 year old trees have zero fruit and that includes 2 Haden, 4 Keitt, 1 Van Dyke, 2 Glenn, 1 Valencia Pride, 2 Hatcher. Crazy Crazy Crazy but my own fault. Live and learn.

53
Graftable. I've done several that size. I had good success using cleft graft, trimming all but 2 half-leaves on the scion and covering everything with a plastic bag in the shade for 4 weeks.

When is the earliest you would generally graft a sapodilla out of curiosity? Mine are probably very near one year old and are just now getting some bark. They haven't really started to push for the year but they seem to be super slooooow, thought not particularly needy.

I’ve cleft grafted them thinner than pencil thickness. Probably around a year old or less. I’ll see if I can find some pics.
mine are super tiny. Has anyone grown one in northern CA? Haven't seen any out here.

54
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: New to Mango Trees: Is this normal?
« on: March 31, 2020, 10:05:09 PM »
Looks good to me.

55
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Redox potential
« on: March 31, 2020, 10:02:55 PM »
:D Are they any good? I've had iguana before, was OK.

Do you also eat the frogs? Here they are on the markets and people love them.

56
What is 40-26? Is it coco flavored?

Holy macaroni that's a huge list! Any personal favorites in there?

Are you gonna be open for fruit sales in April?

Yes, a few we really like that don’t get as much attention as some of the more well known others:

Ah Ping (bbs prone)
Gaylour
Giselle
Little Gem
Mapulehu
Mario (bbs prone)
Maya
Panchadara Kalassa
Sein Ta Lone
Step
ST Maui
Sunrise
White Piri
40-26


Also I need to edit the master list since there are some other varieties we’re growing that may be large enough to be harvesting budwood from as well.

I think we will have mango fruit ready to sell  by appointment within a couple weeks. Probably open for regular hours in second half of April.

57
:D

Yep. Left untreated, my infected keitt was losing nearly 100% of her crop.

Jeff, if you would only be one with nature, all of your Keitts would be problem-free. Diseases can be stopped with positive energy and compost.

58
Holy macaroni that's a huge list! Any personal favorites in there?

Are you gonna be open for fruit sales in April?

59
Yep. Left untreated, my infected keitt was losing nearly 100% of her crop.

Can anyone ID this problem..
Looks to me like it could be MBBS..
But this is a Carrie mango and it's not supposed to get that.. is it possible that the disease has mutated.  This is the second one that showed up.





Appears to be a split caused by a MBBS lesion.

Any mango can get MBBS including resistant varieties like Carrie. The difference is in the severity and percentage of fruit impacted. With Carrie that number will likely be single digits percentage wise, while something like Kent or Keitt can be well north of 50%.

60
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Redox potential
« on: March 30, 2020, 11:56:29 AM »
I think the appeal to morality is a little out of place here, but setting that aside and addressing the more general discussion around OMRI listed fungicides:

Cupric oxide is not a restricted use pesticide (RUP), and as far as I know, private application of it doesn't require permitting.

Copper is a very important micronutrient that is often lacking in soil with high pH or high organic content. In fact, one method of curing copper toxicity is to add organic matter.

The nice thing about cupric oxide (and zinc oxide) is that it's both a fungicide and a fertilizer. With an ultra-low-volume application (eg, via a mister), it's easy to stay well within the bounds of over application.

But, one should obviously get a soil test done before applying copper.

http://www.ipni.net/publication/nutrifacts-na.nsf/0/F516E471D756452D85257E3400610DCC/$FILE/NutriFacts-NA-10.pdf

OMRI Approved Fungicides are only allowed to be used with permission with restrictions.  OMRI Approved Fungicides kill All Aquatic life.  I guess if your alright killing all your frogs it’s alright killing Dolphins, Sea Turtles and the rest.  When does this stop?  Are we that morally bankrupt as Americans that we don’t even know the difference between what’s right and what’s wrong anymore.  Is this the future for Florida?
I guess if your alright killing everything beautiful your willing to dilute facts just to sustain yourself.

61
Haha that's exactly what I've started doing -- halted on the compost (except for what I run through the chipper) and high N (except for the mangoes). Huge difference.

Wise and practical man.  I had the same experience regarding ultra high P, K and Ca.  As advised by the lab techs more compost only exacerbates the problem so "don't add it for 5 years".  Cure - using a very high N food relative to the rest of the macros.

62
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« on: March 29, 2020, 08:39:20 PM »
You're in a challenging spot. Fortunately, I don't have a hard pan. The rock layer is rubble, and the roots can generally make their way through to the sand on the other side.

Har is great. You should really have him come for a consultation. I had him coming to my place on a monthly basis for quite a while. Learned a lot.

Thank you Jeff. I am in the same situation as you, a total of 1/2 acre of lot in a residential area with rocky hard soil, almost like a river bed after 2 ft digging, and we are by the brackish river as well so the salt in the soil..ugh..and my journey has just started 3 yrs ago with this lot, we probably might have put 20 trucks of mulch, about 5-6 each year and hoping this would help to change the soil health a bit. Planted 15 mango trees first year and added 12 more next year and some are in pots still. Mangoes in soil for last 2-3 years did have Zn, Mn deficiency, probably iron as well as i had shown it in 'Mango pests' post and Har had told me it is so, and later reading your posts i figured out its the alkaline soil. My flowering has been poor, this year more than half of the mango trees never flowered, in those that flowered the flower to fruit ratio i think is increasing every year but not optimal, and i am pretty sure observing for last 1 week that flowers are drying out from lack of water in those trees the roots of which have not yet found the water table(pretty much all my 2-3 yrs old trees :)  . I am thinking to pay Har to come to my garden and give his recommendations this year. You can probably see all the deficiencies in the video of my yard i sent to you via email. I totally agree with changing the ways we grow based on the soil, climate and various other external variants like native bugs and pests. And what applies to farms up north may not apply to farms south or to residential small lots where i live. You have done all the hard work over the years, trials and errors which will save a lot of time for new growers like me.

Update: My Honey Kiss hasn't flowered yet, will it even flower this late? Neelam flowered a week ago, Angie flowered 3-4 days ago. Carrie is in third bloom cycle. Peach Cobbler, Orange Sherbet, Fairchild, Coconut Cream, Ugly betty didn't bloom this year.


Satya

63
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« on: March 29, 2020, 08:28:40 PM »
Yah, it was somewhere around 40 - 50 truck loads at roughly 100 large wheelbarrow (8cf) loads per truck? So figure several thousand trips with the wheelbarrow and 10's of thousands of shovel movements. I started getting carpal tunnel and eventually just started hiring laborers to do it. That costed me thousands, but I did it over a 10 year period, so it was sort of an amortized cost.

I'm doing about 14 feet on center, with some trees closer than that which my wife snuck in when I wasn't looking. At 5 years, the canopies started to touch. I try to prune 1/2 of them each year, and it takes me months worth of weekends to do so. I bought a semi-commercial wood chipper (merry mac) to chip it all up, makes nice compost in just a few months.

Some trees can be closer than 14 feet (eg, sugar apple), but 14 - 15 foot spacing is workable if you're ok doing a lot of pruning. But this is location dependent. For example, I think soil conditions in Homestead are not as conducive to rapid growth.

Jeff, that must have been a lot of hard work and some beautiful soil!! 

I feel as you obviously are a wealth of helpful information as you have been at it for as long as you have and tried different methods over that time.

I was obviously being facetious in my postings as usual, as I'm sure everybody will come to learn. I feel if we can't have a good laugh amongst ourselves and bring some positive energy and love to our plants then we aren't doing them any justice!

I don't like judging what others do as that isn't my place and I don't want to be judged myself. If more people would check their ego and drop the narcissistic tendencies everybody gets then we could all get along better!

Out of curiosity what is the closest spacing you have on your trees on your 1/2  acre? My wife and I have a 1/3rd acre to work with and half of that is a septic mound, so we are forced to go ultra high density for the trees on our property.

64
I hear ya, I'm in the same boat here. We have a solid foot thick layer of calcium carbonate rock / rubble (from canal digging) with a 3 - 4 inch layer of sand on top.

Honestly, a lot of soils repel water when dry. Peat is especially bad, but even compost does it. The key is to keep it watered during establishment or wait until the summer rains kick in. Best time to plant a mango tree here is August, since you get the summer rains, and mangoes naturally lay down roots during the fall (the yearly cycle is roughly: dormant => fruit => grow limbs => grow roots).

To repair chlorosis, sulfur helps a lot in that it temporarily drops pH. As an experiment, I dropped the pH of 1/4 acre of land from mid to high 7's to the 3's with a literal ton of sulfur. Took a good 5 years for the pH to return to the 7's. (PS -- you can buy OMRI listed sulfur pellets if that's something you're interested in.)

Also, consistently apply micronutrients (Tiger produces some good ORMI listed micros, and conventionals are easy to obtain).  Consistent foliar application helps too.

Re :Compost

My soil in Cape Coral is so poor that I HAVE to fill the planting hole with topsoil/compost. The topsoil in my neighborhood is really subsoil from canal excavation used to elevate the residential lots. It is sand with shells/coral rock of various sizes and almost no organic matter or life. I have no irrigation system and the well water is very salty.
When the top layer of ground dries it actually repels water. Almost everything goes chlorotic so I use a lot of liquid iron and similar granular products. I would use soluble kelp powder if it wasn't near $500 a pail.
 Once the soil is dry even a heavy rainfall will only wet the top inch or so and then it is dry as dust beneath.My first mangos were planted by the book. All struggled and most died. Filling the planting hole with compost has greatly increased survival.Sometimes I give the trees a little molasses,it seems to help.
 I have to fill the planting hole with compost and at least a 2 inch layer of compost surrounding the tree so I can successfully water from a can or hose from my Reverse osmosis system. If there is some moisture the soil drains fine. When dry, water just beads up and runs off.
  Once mangos are established I try to give them a little water around bloom to minimize fruit drop. Last year I was unable to water. The trees set a good crop but the rains came so late much of it dropped. Mature mangos do fine in the neighborhood but young trees struggle. The past two Winters it has hardy rained at all.

65
Same here, but it took me a decade of growing to figure that out. No moral reason to stay within the confines of an organic regimen (unless one is certified as doing so).

When I had my soil tested (black compost from a decade of extremely heavy mulching), P was off the chart (literally), K to Ca ratio was terrible, and micronutrients were way under represented. But it took about a decade for those conditions to develop.

As Har mentioned, moderation is good here. A thin layer of compost does a lot of good.

I practice the best of both worlds- I apply organics AND use synthetic fertilizers for better performance.

Tell me, what is the exact nutritional value of your compost, your organics?  Talking NPK and micros.  That's all a plant cares about.  Cares less about folks' lifestyles and cults they choose.

Sorry for coming off as a jerk but I really get tired of this feel good "natural" B.S..  Compost CAN be problematic. Many organic materials are laden with broadleaf herbicides and/or heavy metals.  I know of no organic purist that knows exactly what's in their rocket fuels.

One must use common sense and be a good steward of their health and the environment.

66
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« on: March 29, 2020, 10:36:22 AM »
:D Yah, I certainly don't have anything against organic growing. I was actually an organic grower for roughly a decade. And I actually followed a similar path: attempting to solve my problems with soil. In the end, I spread a grand total of around 1,000 cubic yards of tree trimmer mulch over about 12,000 sq feet of land through a 10 year time span. If you do the math, that's roughly 4 feet of mulch across a quarter acre of land -- a lot! After decomp, it turned into maybe 8 inches of beautiful black, wormy compost whose microorganisms thrive when kept moist.

Today, I grow about 80 fruit trees on a little over 1/2 acre of land on an urban double lot, and it's been a 14 year journey of experimentation with a decent bit of success thanks to the smart folks on this forum and the help of Har M, who guided me through the process of discovering what works best for my particular area.

You have raised a good point regarding the personalities involved in what amounts to a religious battle between proselytists on both sides of the debate. But sometimes I feel as if the organic proponents convert it into some sort of moral judgment, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense given the context.

A number of posters point to the argument of nature being able to take care of itself. But we forget a key point: we're not dealing with what nature gave us. For one, we've selected fruit trees based upon characteristics that nature doesn't care about: flavor, texture, brix, color, production, etc. Secondly, we've removed the trees from their native environment. Though our Floridian climate loosely resembles that of native mango regions, there are still myriad differences: humidity, soil, etc.

Moreover, just because organisms survive in a particular unmodified environment doesn't necessarily mean that we can't apply technology to make things better. For example, humans have adapted quite well to extreme heat, and I'm sure that humans have lived in hot and humid conditions for millenia. However, I'm hard pressed to find even the most staunch organic advocate who doesn't use air conditioning in their home during the Florida summer. And I don't believe organic growing really precludes supplemental irrigation during times of drought (haven't farmers used this for hundreds, perhaps thousands, of years?).

Today, I follow a modified regimen that uses organic practices where it makes sense and conventional when not. For example, I use a mix of OMRI listed and EPA Reduced Risk fungicides. For pest control, I exclusively use OMRI listed products, as they are sufficient to control insect problems and have least environmental impact. Given that organic fertilizer is hard to obtain here (and that organic micronutrient products often come from ancient sea beds -- a limited resource), I favor conventional fertilizer. And I provide supplemental irrigation in times of drought. I suggest doing whatever makes the most sense for one's particular needs and growing environment, within the bounds of EPA regs of course.

I get where Frog's frustration probably stems from... us natural guys constantly getting the "you can't grow anything without the use of poisons, due to so and so..." speeches from those who aren't willing to go the extra mile to maintain the ultimate integrity of food and acting like you doing so is impossible because they can't manage it is tired and condescending.

Just because "Mr. Conventional" has to spray a 55 Gallon drum of Roundup a week on every individual vegetable or tree they grow doesn't mean they need to puff their chests up and tell you that you better learn to enjoy poisonous taste of Glyphosate because it's so good for you and you need it while taking in your chemical free collection telling you that it cannot be done in that manner...

Nobody enjoys getting pissed on like that and those kind of people always are the rudest most stubborn people when you mention it can be done naturally like nature has for millions of years before the industrialization of the world happened. They try to shut your truth down immediately and I take joy in watching them writhe in the light of truth when their brains start comprehending they may be ousted.

That rant being ranted, I don't see Jeff as trying to pee on anyone's rainbow, just stating what has worked best and most optimally in his experiences.

Point being, we all can learn a lot from others experiences no matter what methods are used as long as we can just listen and keep an open mind to what others are saying. Agree or disagree, everybody should have a platform to express their thoughts!

Looking forward to scarfing down as many varieties of mangoes as possible this year! I want to be so lucky as to taste the M-4 this time ;)

67
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« on: March 28, 2020, 09:53:25 AM »
Hey Frog -- sorry I don't know your real name -- we welcome your thoughts to the discussion, and I understand that sometimes disagreements invoke emotion. But I suggest defending or contradicting based on addressing the points of the argument rather than appealing to ad hominem and attacking the author with disparaging commentary -- which feels a bit like harassment.

Well, everyone's background, education, knowledge, location, and experience are different.  I love the idea of all-natural where the soil is nourished above all else (God knows we've lost too much precious topsoil in this country and around the world!), but I'm not sure everyone can pull it off, especially growing fruit trees on a small lot in the middle of the city.  I've met Jeff.  He's an okay person.  I can't imagine him harassing anyone.
If any other random member here gave feedback completely discounting my truth it may not be considered harassment but since Jeff is an administrator his posts pack more of a punch and I feel harassed. Most Florida residents know of prolifically fruiting healthy Mango tree that is not getting additional water it makes his statement laughable.  Constant promotion of chemicals use by many of the onsite Mango experts of what amounts to pollution that kills life pollutes waterways, produces toxic unhealthy foods and happily encourages others in mass to do the same earth destroying practice of chemical pollution is not a very admirable quality.  He is an expert at growing Mangos on a double city lot with chemical pollutants, not organically and obviously has a very limited understanding of how natural systems work, definitely should not speak for any organic Mango growers and others who care for Florida and its future.

68
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« on: March 28, 2020, 09:41:27 AM »
HAHAHAHA

Jeff, thanks for reading..the fact that you read all the way and reached the aliens is actually not a loss  😉😊.
OK. You lost me somewhere around the part about the aliens.

Well i am just a newbie, compared to you all who’ve been growing fruit trees here in South FL for 15-20 years. My experience of growing them in southeast Nepal with similar climate but with no fertilizers except home cow’s dried manure  does not count because everything is different here  and i have to begin learning from the kindergarten level again. I really appreciate this forum, reading all the experiences and opinions in detail, very helpful stuff. My garden is in 10b, 3 miles from the ocean closest beach is sunny isles, it’s 3 yrs old and most mango trees bought as 3 gallon from Zills are 5-6 ft tall now. They are all mulched 6-8 inch and except for the first month after transplant they were never watered. Last year i was not worried about lack of flowering because i thought it’s good as they need to establish. This year the only trees that have substantial flowering are Carrie and Glenn, about 1/2 of tree flowered and the fruit set also is satisfactory. There might be other factors for not flowering but i am guessing could it be no watering? Also i have not sprayed them with copper, i saw some anthracnose on some leaves but the problem resolved itself. I am leaving them as is without spraying copper/sulphur and irrigation and see. All i have done is mulch the whole garden but i may need to do more to make the trees flower eventually. Neighbor’s trees that are 20-25 ft tall flower profusely and fruit consistently every year with no mulch, no fertilizer no watering. They are tommy atkins, they leave the fruit for us when they fly up north every summer, and their fruits ripened in our garage were more delicious than all mangoes i tried at the saturday mangoes  sale up in Delray beach.

I keep on asking myself, are we compromising the health of a tree by focusing on fruit production as sole objective of the tree? Is the tree’s immunity and strength not our focus? Do we think constant treatement with copper/sulphur and pesticides send a signal to the tree to not invoke its immunity? Am i giving too much human quality to the tree and should treat the tree as just a tree, a lower intelligence life form at mercy of humans to be saved from pests to continue its existence and generation? For example, if aliens existed and wanted human race to work as slaves and humans to grow in numbers they would focus on fertility but is increase in  fertility in humans a sign of health, or is it good immunity?. I see same happen with cattle industry here but growing up back in my village, our cow was our family member and we focused on her health and not milk production as we knew her milk is only as nutritious as the nutrition we give to her. I  know i am going off the topic, just musing, there is nothing else to do, lockdown, no job, just go around the garden and check on the trees :) . I would not plant 30 mango varieties just for shade or for look of healthy leaves, i love mangoes, more than any other fruits or food in the world. I am all for experimentation, i will not ridicule the Frog farm member who is giving a different perspective to and i won’t step on the foot of some gods of mango growers who have seen it all for the last 20 yrs of growing, i learn a lot from you all. Keeping an open mind, thats all.
Be safe!

69
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« on: March 27, 2020, 10:12:28 PM »
OK. You lost me somewhere around the part about the aliens.

Well i am just a newbie, compared to you all who’ve been growing fruit trees here in South FL for 15-20 years. My experience of growing them in southeast Nepal with similar climate but with no fertilizers except home cow’s dried manure  does not count because everything is different here  and i have to begin learning from the kindergarten level again. I really appreciate this forum, reading all the experiences and opinions in detail, very helpful stuff. My garden is in 10b, 3 miles from the ocean closest beach is sunny isles, it’s 3 yrs old and most mango trees bought as 3 gallon from Zills are 5-6 ft tall now. They are all mulched 6-8 inch and except for the first month after transplant they were never watered. Last year i was not worried about lack of flowering because i thought it’s good as they need to establish. This year the only trees that have substantial flowering are Carrie and Glenn, about 1/2 of tree flowered and the fruit set also is satisfactory. There might be other factors for not flowering but i am guessing could it be no watering? Also i have not sprayed them with copper, i saw some anthracnose on some leaves but the problem resolved itself. I am leaving them as is without spraying copper/sulphur and irrigation and see. All i have done is mulch the whole garden but i may need to do more to make the trees flower eventually. Neighbor’s trees that are 20-25 ft tall flower profusely and fruit consistently every year with no mulch, no fertilizer no watering. They are tommy atkins, they leave the fruit for us when they fly up north every summer, and their fruits ripened in our garage were more delicious than all mangoes i tried at the saturday mangoes  sale up in Delray beach.

I keep on asking myself, are we compromising the health of a tree by focusing on fruit production as sole objective of the tree? Is the tree’s immunity and strength not our focus? Do we think constant treatement with copper/sulphur and pesticides send a signal to the tree to not invoke its immunity? Am i giving too much human quality to the tree and should treat the tree as just a tree, a lower intelligence life form at mercy of humans to be saved from pests to continue its existence and generation? For example, if aliens existed and wanted human race to work as slaves and humans to grow in numbers they would focus on fertility but is increase in  fertility in humans a sign of health, or is it good immunity?. I see same happen with cattle industry here but growing up back in my village, our cow was our family member and we focused on her health and not milk production as we knew her milk is only as nutritious as the nutrition we give to her. I  know i am going off the topic, just musing, there is nothing else to do, lockdown, no job, just go around the garden and check on the trees :) . I would not plant 30 mango varieties just for shade or for look of healthy leaves, i love mangoes, more than any other fruits or food in the world. I am all for experimentation, i will not ridicule the Frog farm member who is giving a different perspective to and i won’t step on the foot of some gods of mango growers who have seen it all for the last 20 yrs of growing, i learn a lot from you all. Keeping an open mind, thats all.
Be safe!

70
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« on: March 27, 2020, 04:54:13 PM »
That came out of left field... a little ad hominem to spice things up here?

Watering is always required if one wants the trees to uptake nutrients (it's the action of the water evaporating through the leaves that pulls nutrients up). In times of drought, water is going to be absorbed from deeper portions of the soil, which is typically less nutrient dense. Also, conventional fertilizers come in slow release form, which would act similarly to organic.

Water isn't required for mangoes (here in FL) if one is only interested in keeping the trees alive. For bountiful crops of quality fruit, moist soil is important. In places where rainfall isn't as plentiful as FL, only the most drought tolerant species will survive without supplemental irrigation (eg, eucalyptus).

In life, optimal outcome is generally achieved via finding a "sweet spot" or middle ground between two extremes. A mix of organic and conventional practices works very well. The extent to which one can move to one side or another of the spectrum depends heavily upon what natural amenities the growing location provides (eg, natural soil quality, rainfall, temperatures, disease pressure, wind, etc).

I’m all for watering as needed but with Mangos at our place it is not needed.  Grafted Black Sapote and grafted Sapodilla are a different story unless the soil is perfect, which on a larger scale takes time.  Seed grown trees of BS and Sapodilla don’t require watering, for this reason we are growing replacements for BS and Sapodillas out now.  We plan on not selling our Mango fruit for the next  2 years and we are planting out all our Mango fruit seeds.  A major difference between organic and those using chemical fertilizers is you have to water if you use chemicals, whereas if you are organic watering isn’t always required especially for Mangos here.  Grafted trees just don’t have the vigor of seed grown trees.

The Pickering is a 5x5 mound in ground two years never been watered.

Okay Jeff.   I know from previous experience regarding watering that we are not supposed to disagree with you or risk harassment and being run off this site, I have no problem with leaving here..  ’This place has been a valuable source of ideas for many.  Since before I came along there was no information for Organic Growers.  According to you, your way is the only way to grow Mangos if you want fruit.  Funny how we can grow over 300 great disease free Mango trees that produce bountiful healthy fruit without ever being watered.  Disease free fruit is something you admittedly have been unable to accomplish without spraying toxic fungicides.  Unlike you, our fruit from the first bloom did not drop and we do not spray fungicides or water.  I know of plenty of other growers in Florida who produce plentiful mango fruit without ever watering their trees.  We have different philosophies and management styles.  Sorry but using slow release fertilizer is not “similar to organic. “  All the other crap and misinformation I consistently read on here from all of the  “mango experts” like yourself and a couple others,  “don’t use compost”,  “you must water your trees to produce fruit” “spray fungicides” every other week, is mostly a bunch of misinformation that can be found on the back of any fertilizer bag for backyard growers seeking knowledge.  We make  biodynamic compost and start our Mango seeds in 100% pure compost without any problems.  Our Mangos that have been given the most compost do the best and produce by far the most fruit.   We use compost on our Mangos and they love it no disease no problems.  We don’t have fungal issues and we do not spray.  We do not water Mangos and we have a whole lot of fruit.  Dry farmed fruit is more flavorful and can demand a higher price.  Thankfully we know what we are doing therefore we don’t farm like you, this works for us, Florida’s waterways and our Mangos.   Do what makes you and your trees happy, water if you want.  Don’t kill frogs, don’t pollute your neighbors.  :-)🐸

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Yep. I found this out via experience... 10 years and over a thousand cubic yards of mulching. One of the biggest issues is internal breakdown due to the nutrient imbalance (bad Ca to K ratio). Another issue (aside from the super high P) is micronutrient lockup.

I think I found a bit of a sweet spot, with a thin layer of mulch that encourages worms and other beneficials and which works as a nutrient reserve, but doesn't present the other issues to a significant degree.

If you get your soil to rich, not so good for mangos.They grow to much and not much stress and no fruit.Some crops are heavy feeders avocados,jaks,mamey ect.

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Anthracnose without rain?
« on: March 26, 2020, 07:25:55 PM »
Water of any sort (plus warm temps) will encourage antracnose growth: irrigation water, humidity, rainfall.

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« on: March 26, 2020, 11:30:16 AM »
Watering is always required if one wants the trees to uptake nutrients (it's the action of the water evaporating through the leaves that pulls nutrients up). In times of drought, water is going to be absorbed from deeper portions of the soil, which is typically less nutrient dense. Also, conventional fertilizers come in slow release form, which would act similarly to organic.

Water isn't required for mangoes (here in FL) if one is only interested in keeping the trees alive. For bountiful crops of quality fruit, moist soil is important. In places where rainfall isn't as plentiful as FL, only the most drought tolerant species will survive without supplemental irrigation (eg, eucalyptus).

In life, optimal outcome is generally achieved via finding a "sweet spot" or middle ground between two extremes. A mix of organic and conventional practices works very well. The extent to which one can move to one side or another of the spectrum depends heavily upon what natural amenities the growing location provides (eg, natural soil quality, rainfall, temperatures, disease pressure, wind, etc).

I’m all for watering as needed but with Mangos at our place it is not needed.  Grafted Black Sapote and grafted Sapodilla are a different story unless the soil is perfect, which on a larger scale takes time.  Seed grown trees of BS and Sapodilla don’t require watering, for this reason we are growing replacements for BS and Sapodillas out now.  We plan on not selling our Mango fruit for the next  2 years and we are planting out all our Mango fruit seeds.  A major difference between organic and those using chemical fertilizers is you have to water if you use chemicals, whereas if you are organic watering isn’t always required especially for Mangos here.  Grafted trees just don’t have the vigor of seed grown trees.

The Pickering is a 5x5 mound in ground two years never been watered.

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Wich garden shredder its better?
« on: March 25, 2020, 11:00:48 AM »
I'm pretty fond of mackissic, but prolly not easy to find one in Romania.

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Second Bloom = Zero Mangos
« on: March 21, 2020, 10:54:10 AM »
Truly Tropical has a video on this. Ms Wenzel was saying that she thought the poor fruit set was due to the high winds we had, which caused unfavorable conditions for pollinators.

It's been hit and miss for me. Some trees had good fruit set, others very poor on the second bloom.

Fruit drop is normal this time of year. It has been perhaps slightly more than usual this year for the simple reason that fruit set was outstanding on that first bloom. Larger fruited mangos will drop fruits when smaller (this is how they are able to produce larger fruit). You want to see one or two fruits per panicle max. If the tree holds too many fruits, they turn out small (sweet tart has a tendency to do this), in which case you may want to actually prune away some of the fruit.

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