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Messages - wslau

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In all places, its Edward, not Edwards.

The Providence says Kent x Gary on your need to remove "x Gary"

I am also not sure ZINC was ever used as a pollinator.

Coco Cream should say Edward x Gary

Carla is C-12, a Zill 80.

There is opinion that many may have been pollinated by Gary but not all crosses are documented.

Crystal is I-29 and a Zill 80 seedling.

J-14 is a ZINC seedling.

Thanks rob....never even heard of crystal before.

The latest list:

I'm comprising a list of the newer zill [propagated] varieties and their parentage and mono/ a lot of blanks for mono/poly determination. This is what I have so far.   I am trying to base these on physical inspection of seeds (a few...more than one).

Providence is NOT Kent x Gary.  It was not part of any breeding project.  It was a chance seedling that was on Walter's property and kept by Walter Zill for certain growth habits and fruit characteristics. 

I also wonder if all the parentage you have is correct.  I would not go by assumption or what a 3rd, 4th or 5th party says (I know Gary was not thrilled and denied providing detailed infornation about the varieties when he was approached about writing a book on his breeding project).

If you are going to make and post a sheet like this, you should make sure all of the facts are correct...just sayin and my 2 cents.

Rob...I fixed providence parentage already after your first post.
Very hard to get accurate info on everything with me not being close to Florida.
That's why I need you and others to review my excel file.  Some info came from Alex's website, which is always accurate.  The incorrect stuff most likely came from forum posts that I could not verify.
If anyone wants to help out, send me a PM and I will email the excel file to you.

I'm comprising a list of the newer zill [propagated] varieties and their parentage and mono/ a lot of blanks for mono/poly determination. This is what I have so far.   I am trying to base these on physical inspection of seeds (a few...more than one).

M4 is Polyembryonic


I had the same conclusion today for M-4.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: HLB Increases In California
« on: August 18, 2018, 05:24:35 PM »
7/31/18 update...Broken down by city

Guess I will agree to disagree.  Dir those in the US, many have the opportunity to  taste, just takes the want, effort and cost.

As for tge vidoes, since taste is objective and most people's taatebuds seem to interpret differently, it doesnt tell anyone how they will taste for each viewer or if they will like it.

As for Sulcata's videos, those are a downright joke...but then again the world lives off of youtube and FB and is hypnotized by the internet and believes all they see and hear.

Rob...sounds like we need a bsbullie YouTube channel for mango reviews ....with ripe fruit and a "down to earth" assessment.

Back to the subject...none of my SoCal friends have placed Mahachanok in the top 10 tier.
However, I must say the fruit looks beautiful, flavor is more complex than most Asian mangos, and production is good for a relatively small tree.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Fruit Punch baby mangoes... really red.
« on: August 17, 2018, 12:04:22 AM »
So what are they supposed to look like when ripe or when it is best to pick?

This is a picture of mine last week. The whitish residue is from spraying surround wp a month ago.

FP maybe a month away from fully ripe.


I cut the head off the rootstock 1 week before grafting, that induces sap flow and energy towards pushing new growth, when you graft it helps along. its like having a natural next flush cycle. However, I have not studied the affects.

Behl....sometimes it is not possible to do this if your rootstock is young/small and only has leaves at the top.
Alex always supplies nice pencil thick scions, so you can't always graft them onto really young/small rootstock.
Agreed though...your method definitely works for taller rootstocks, as long as there are leaves below your cut point and subsequent graft.

No pruning needed before scions arrive.  Generally not much you can do without seeing the scions.  Just make sure you have healthy/active rootstock or branches selected.  The type of graft you choose will depend on the size of the scions and branch/rootstock size.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What is happening to mango leaves?
« on: August 14, 2018, 12:04:54 AM »
I get this on occasion on young leaves on hot days.  I attributed this to overwatering, but would like to find out exactly why too.

Where is Rob when you need him?  Lol

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Any info on J-17 Mango?
« on: August 10, 2018, 09:05:07 PM »
Never heard of a J-17...only know of M-17.

It is definitely possible to graft without swelling buds.  However, if late in the grafting season, the graft may stay dormant and push the following spring/summer.  I experienced this with a few varieties.
If you are buying scions from Alex, he can update you weekly ...when buds form and swell.  Things change quickly this time of year and buds may form in one week after heavy heat.

Erik, Seniorita is a fantastic mango but I know nothing about it other than the fact that Frank is growing it. The flavor profile is similar to Sweet Tart in that it has a very high Sweet factor and a good amount of acidity for an overall perfect sugar acid balance. The Fruit is larger than the ST with a deep orange flesh. I’ve only sampled it once but it blew everyone away.


Going from memory's a Madame Francis seedling and an improvement over its parent (i.e. Fiberless).  As far as I know, its not for sale or distribution yet.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Best tasting mangos of 2018
« on: August 08, 2018, 08:19:36 AM »
Since u guys are talking about OS, what is the parent of OS is it ppk or LZ???

PPK is the parent.

That what I thought and had written down too.
Then the picture was provided.
How could Zills HPP make such a mistake on their own catalog?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« on: August 08, 2018, 12:05:00 AM »
My first successful push from a Mango bud graft. I didn’t use any chemicals but trimming back some of the apical dominance seems to have helped. This bud has been completely unwrapped for about a month and the heat seems to have been the final push it needed. For those members in SoCal, right now is a good time to attempt bud grafts because rootstocks are usually pushing vigorously in the warm weather.

I know, I know, it’s really still too early to call it a success but all the other buds have already died off and this is the only one showing signs of life. The union looks pretty good although this bud graft is on a relatively weak branch.

The rootstock is one of my California Super Mango Rootstocks and the tree grew too vigorously. The branches that formed on this potted Mango were too large and the branches had too many divets from growth buds to put on a regular cleft, side cleft or veneer graft. Bud grafting seemed like the best option because of all the growth bumps.

The tree has since exploded with more normal growth that is much smoother which I plan on cleft, side and veneer grafting. I may put on a few more bud grafts just for fun.

This bud graft that is beginning to push is one of the buds that I posted pictures of one or two pages back.


Looking good Simon!  I think I'll try bud grafting next year.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Best tasting mangos of 2018
« on: August 07, 2018, 12:25:46 AM »
Piña colada flowers well in SoCal, but fruit set is low... Very similar to Alphonso in SoCal.
May try hand pollination in the future.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Best tasting mangos of 2018
« on: August 06, 2018, 10:40:44 PM »
So far, piña colada was the best tasting mango for me for 2018.  Amazing flavor, complexity, and we just have to get this to NOT be a shy bearer in SoCal.

I would add Gary and Valencia Pride for some Coconut taste.

Here’s a picture of my friends Honey Kiss crop grown in inland North County. This is a Honey Kiss graft on an 8 year old Manilla seedling with a large trunk.

My friend mentioned that in a side by side tasting with Sweet Tart, it was difficult to pick a winner.


Simon...I left Gary off the list since there is only 1 seller (certified to sell to CA) that carries it ...TT...and who knows what you will get from them.
Also, there is also pettigrew (which supposedly has coconut flavor), which I have successfully propagated from USDA scions, but is not propagated by Zills HPP (that I know of).
Not sure about VP having coconut flavor, but if you say our friend AZ's VP tree has that flavor... I'll have to try it again.


   Thanks for great presentation. Do you know where I can get a copy of the slide you did? I didn't see on foothill website.

 I have a voice recording of Warren's presentation. Its missing the first minute or two.

Not sure how to upload, so those who would like a copy pm me and provide your email address. I'll try to email them to you. File is about 22MB. It should be playable with any video/audio player.


The presentation was e-mailed to Foothill CRFG members only.
I know Fang recorded the presentation, but it is not clear where he will post it.

If I'm looking for preferably late season, coconut-tasting mango, do I have any good options?

For California: For coconut taste, you are currently limited to Coconut Cream, Pina Colada, Pickering, and M-4.

And how does Pina Colada do here?

Piña colada does relatively poorly here in SoCal.  Definitely a shy bearer for all my friends reporting in.
But sampled two small ones today and the sweet and pineapple tart flavors were excellent.  The brix was about 25.

And one final question: Can I graft onto an established mango tree this time of year?

Yes.  August is the best time to graft in SoCal.  The high humidity is excellent for grafting.

Warren, thanks for the list. It can save people a lot of time sorting through all the different flavor profiles.


If you have any corrections, please let me know.
Or if you think we should create a new category too.

You probably should taste these before you decide.
But Simon had good recommendations, as long as your palate agrees.

I made a chart on flavor profiles using information from Squam's lectures and then added some of my own info to it based on his descriptions.

You have to click on the picture twice to see the leftmost column.

Still on for tomorrow, Sat August 4.
Besides the presentation....there will be an informal tasting of about 10 different varieties of mango.  Social/Tasting probably will start at 9:30am.

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