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Messages - JF

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Super Hass avocado
« on: June 15, 2020, 02:33:49 PM »
Carmen Hass is not a multi crop avocado at least not in SoCal. We have a large specimen in The Great Park in EL Torro that my friend Jon, master gardener, planted some years ago and it has not produce multi crops consistently

The mango scion sale ended last night! I want to thank everyone who participated for their tremendous support. I might have a combine mango and anona scion sale in late August. All orders will be completed and shipped by Monday and I will provide tracking numbers all always.

The following have been sold out:
Coco cream
Fruit Punch
Please take a look at the list and do not include the varieties above or yr order will not be process.
Thanks you for yr patience and understanding

Just a reminder that I will be accepting pick up in La Habra no later then Saturday 12 pm. All shipping orders will be shipped Monday. I will stop taking any orders Friday 8 pm. There are no exceptions as I'm leaving town early next week due to a flight cancellation and reschedule.

Fruit punch sold out. Please check list before ordering or paying

Just to be sure, you say 10 scions per order?  No more, no less?

Can I place 2 orders?

I added several new varieties to the list. Minimum of 10 scions per order with 2 of ea varieties ....same rules as the annonas scion sale. Some varieties I have very limited and limited. VP mean 5 or less scions, Limited 10 or less scions.

in terms of taste and flavors only, what are the top 6 you like  from the list?

Thatís a difficult choice, all are excellent varieties but if you press me here my top 6 from the list:

Please submit yr list Thursday-Saturday. I will not take any others after Saturday as I need time to ship latest June 17 before I depart.
Thanks Frank

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Inches of Rain today FL
« on: June 04, 2020, 07:20:50 PM »
YucatŠn 25Ē this week and more in the weekend. By the time this tropical storm passes weíll have half the rain total for the year in a few days.

Hi no guava for sale. I donít anticipate offering anymore Iím relocating to YucatŠn. I have a 24 gallon Merida rojo available but I see yr in Florida.

Is there somewhere that you can point me to that describes the different varieties? Do you have any favorites? I'm planning to buy a mango tree tomorrow to graft onto.

You can do a search in the forum or check out top tropical, tropical acres farm, they have great descriptions of the fruits.

Manohar and parson is a steal.

When will u bargain Senyorita? 🤣

SeŮorita wonít be out for a while my tree died last year( on corriente rootstock) and I have the backup growing nicely.

This is a small list of mango scions I have available for sale. Price $5 per scions 2 varieties minimum 10 Total scions per order shipping $7. This is a California sale only as I donít want to make too may trips to the post office. Iíll do another sale to all states in September and will have mango trees in Manila type and turpentine rootstock as well as mature mangos and cherimoya trees in 45-100 galllon. Please get yr list ready as this sale will be for one week only as Iíll be out of town until August.

LZ (P)
St (P)
Fruit Punch(VL) SOLD OUT
NDM4(VP) 8 left SOLD OUT
LilGem(VL) 6 left
Parson(VP) 10 left SOLD OUT
Amrapali (P)
Sunrise(VL) 4 left SOLD OUT
Harvest moon(P)
Coco cream(L)
Glenn (P)
Zinc (VL)5 left SOLD OUT
Malika (L)

Very Limmited (VL)

Frank, you were one of the pioneers that got me interested in Mangos and without your guidance and introducing me to other pioneers in the Mango world, I probably wouldnít even have a mango tree in my yard right now.

You have vast knowledge of Mangos, Annonas and other fruit trees and I greatly appreciate all the recommendations and advice you have given me over the years.

The Florida Turpentine rootstock trees do have a purpose. For example, people that donít know how to graft can purchase a Florida tree and not have to worry about learning how to graft. Also, for me personally, I purchase Florida Turpentine rootstock trees when there is a new variety out and scions arenít available. I keep my Florida trees in pots and grow them out to use for their scions. My last Florida tree I purchased was a Cotton Candy.

Hopefully everyone out there with Florida trees will be successful with them but if you are not, donít give up. Try planting various random mango seeds from fruit you eat at the supermarkets and hopefully some will grow vigorously for you.

I highly recommend growing out seeds of the following varieties: Sweet Tart, NDM, Orange Sherbet, Valencia Pride, Kent, Haden, Tommy Atkins, Manilla/Ataulfo/Champagne.


Hey Simon
I have the upmost respect for you. Good friends sometimes have small disagreements and thatís ok. I leave you with another Florida turpentine PPK thatís been in the ground for 3 years doing very well.

I worked in FV in the early 80ís and saw a lot of new home being build. Builders would dump their debris before laying out the topsoil.  I have a friend that live in FV that found slabs of concrete when he started planting his trees. Before I can advice you I need know what type of soil yr working. You can always text me Nate, you have my cell number.

PPK on Florida rootstock 3 year in ground

No back tracking from me, let me start a list of posts that have date stamps and my exact words.

First, a discussion on rootstocks with some links to some good scholarly articles on Mango rootstocks.

Hereís a big piece of the puzzle, please note reply #2 on this thread below.

I could continue this on and on as I save my posts but the reason why I started all these topics is to help myself and other Mango growers out there successfully grow Mangos in SoCal and hopefully elsewhere.

I have spent countless hours writing up my posts, always trying my best to collect as much data before posting a topic. I gladly invite constructive criticism but will fiercely defend myself if I know someone is accidentally or purposely misinterpreting my words.

My hope is to improve Mango production in SoCal and I hope to be part of the solution by finding out what the primary issues are and how to circumvent them. We should be spending our time working together and gathering more data.

Iíve stated this many times before but Iíll say it again, specific varieties of Mangos grow fine on Florida Turpentine rootstocks, namely the more vigorous varieties like VP, LZ, Sweet Tart, etc....

There have just been too many members sending me personal messages to ignore the fact that many of the Florida trees eventually succumb to some issue or disease and die. Iíve literally answered hundreds of pms of members that send me pictures or give me descriptions of their dying trees and how to save them.

That is the reason I started the thread on how to grow Mangos in SoCal.

Itís been crazy home schooling my kids and working full time and helping out at the orchard but when I have time, Iíll update the post with more recent info.


Hey Simon
You have excellent educational mango posts that have help legions of folks that have embarked on this journey to grow mangos in Socal,.. it has been noted and appreciated. I also have an extensive resume on this forum w over 12,000 pix in the forum archives, photobucket and Gardenweb. Along this 11 year project, I have procure and grafted over 500 tropical fruit trees for 6 backyard orchards that I designed so I feel quite confidence with the information I provide. I have answer countless of questions and provided help for anyone that's ask...I mention this because you've decided to bring up yr contributions in this thread. I also want to remind you that Gary, Tim, Ethan and I were one of the original socal members when Sheehan and Pat started this forum back in 2012.....i can go on and on but there is no point, we will leave it at that. I want to make one suggestion, if you are really serious about collecting data, you should do what Roger Meyers did back in the 90's. He partner up with our local CRFG club and bought hundreds of mangos from Pine Island ( 2 semi trucks deliver to his home in FV). He tried to keep a log of the progress of the mangos but folks never followed up and he loss interest after a year.


sorry to hear about yr peach cobbler, you seem to be a serious grower I wouldn't give up. I'm surprise because I consider you are in one of the best mango growing zone in socal. I worked 36 years in that area and I have three of my business partners that live in tustin, santa ana and garden grove. Combine they loss one(1) Florida turpentine tree a PPK and that was to due to santa ana winds. In fact, my good friend Roger Meyes lived in FV across Mile square park and he had maybe a dozen Florida turpentine mangos growing in his yard. Good luck w your kent seedlings.

Letís not get words mixed here Frank, if you read through my posts, youíll find out that I actually use Leoís Turpentine fruit as rootstocks.

As I mentioned before, there are many different kinds of Mangos that are called ďTurpentineĒ. Typically these Mangos are vigorous and seem more tolerant of salinity. These Turpentine trees typically form smaller fruits that often form in clusters on the panicle. The fruit is typically fibrous but some actually have excellent flavor.

I posted pictures of Leoís Turpentine Mango fruits several years and he says they work great as rootstocks and that is why I have tested them and they perform great, just like most seedlings.

Iím willing to bet that if we were given Florida Turpentine seeds and planted them in SoCal, they would grow great here.

I hypothesize that something happens to the trees in the containers, perhaps some of the trees that are being sent to us is pot bound or they get acclimated to the warm weather in Florida and triggers something on the genetic level that makes it struggle when planted in our cooler climate.

Hereís what I wrote another member:

Turpentine seeds work great as rootstocks as long as theyíre not already grafted and containerized. I actually use a different Turpentine rootstock from Leo Manuelís tree as rootstocks. There may be genetic factors that are triggered by Floridaís warm weather and then when those trees reach SoCal, it is difficult for the trees to acclimate to the cooler weather.

The more vigorous varieties perform fine on Florida Turpentine rootstock. They still have some dropping issues and also get gummosis however.

Iím willing to bet that Florida Turpentine seeds planted in SoCal will grow great as long as they are planted as seeds of ungrafted seedlings and have not been potbound.


simon, I'm not mixing words. I want clarification from you, it seems like you backtrack on turpentine rootstock since I point out Sun World has over 50 acres of keitt mangos on florida rootstocks. They are not the only ones, you remember our friend Gary in Palm springs? He has beautiful Florida mango trees growing in the desert. I agree that manila type rootstock are hardier but disagree that many many many Florida trees failed in our climate. I've had a few trees from Florida that have died thru the years but also the same amount on manila type rootstoock......must be our warmer and milder microclimate in Orange County. Lets just say transit shock and root bound trees struggle when we transplant them here. I've also had excellent results on corriente(turpentine) rootstock from Mexico.....the grafts take well and grow vigorously. With respect to turpentine seeds  they make great rootstocks. I've grown and fruited No.11 on some of my mango trees branches and used them as rootstock, they work great for us.

Hey Simon
I've also been experimenting and observing rootstocks for a decade here in socal and I think yr conclusion is way off. You are comparing Leo's seedlings to Florida's turpentine grafted trees. If you were really listening to Leo he would be the first to tell you turpentine rootstock is the best for our climate and if you take the time to study,  the largest commercial mango orchard in the USA, in the Coachella Valley, you would learn that their Keitt mangos are thriving on turpentine rootstock.....if you don't believe me they are on turpentine ask Har he was working for Zill in the late 80's when they fill the order for Mr. Marguleas of Sun World. I agree that perhaps folks, from socal, in the forum kill their Florida turpies for being inexperience and not having the proper microclimate for mangos to thrive. There is also other factor like transportation and transplant shock to consider. The fact is Simon, grafted trees on manila type rootstock droop as much as turpentine. The only advantage we have with the manila type rootstock is that they are more vigorous but in the long run they have the same issues with gummosis and phopmosis(root rot). I would suggest you reach out to gary matsuoka owner of laguna hills nursery he's been growing mangos in coastal orange county for years and hes an expert on California rootstook. As my mentor Eunice Messner use to tell me" Frank, mangos are doable in Socal but it's not easy" and she grew mangos in Anaheim Hills for over 40 years until her death.   

Not true turpentine is not a failed rootstock in SoCal. Some varieties grow slower some faster. Here are some pix to blow that theory up. All these trees are prune hard every year

Harvest moon 6 years in ground

Ppk 2 years in ground

Coco cream 6 years in ground

Maha Chanok 3 years in ground

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cherilata taste test.
« on: April 28, 2020, 12:32:48 AM »
here is the flowers

Sisal dorado another custard apple hybrid

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cherilata taste test.
« on: April 26, 2020, 03:49:55 PM »
My tree is changing leaves now,have to wait for photo.Not uncommon to show both forms of leaves on this tree,correlation to nitrogen levels and vigor.

What is this?
sugarlata ,bred 1993

thats an saramoyo x custard apple

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cherilata taste test.
« on: April 26, 2020, 02:37:09 PM »
A look at leaves from custard apple hybrid

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cherilata taste test.
« on: April 22, 2020, 09:54:41 AM »
Hey JF,

Can you please elaborate on what exactly your hybrid saramuyo is? Just stating that your hybrid saramuyo looks like itís sugar apple x reticulata or reticulata x sugar apple as it looks likes the seedlings that I sprouted of which you gave me. This John painter hybrid is of reticulata and cherimoya which is why it looks different. Also on the cherilata which was pollen parent?


Hey Joe this particular saramuyo is a SA x CA. Cross pollination occurs in nature in YucatŠn, as there are thousands of trees from both species coexisting side by side in the urban area and the countryside. Josh and Haleyís trees are two different trees. At first sight , Josh appears to be a hybrid and Haleyís seen to be a custard apple. We need to see John tree to identify.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cherilata taste test.
« on: April 21, 2020, 12:19:47 AM »
Josh your leaves look like an atemoya. Haley's leaves look more like a custard apple. If someone can take a picture of John's tree to see which of these two is closer to the mother tree. Here is what a hybrid saramoyo looks like very clear no discrepancies.

clear picture of saramoyo and leaves

close up of leaves

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cherilata taste test.
« on: April 19, 2020, 04:27:27 PM »
Shot, can you please post pix of the tree so I can see if this is a hybrid or not .

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cherilata taste test.
« on: April 18, 2020, 11:44:17 PM »
Good looking fruit but this is a reticulata. If it was cross with a cherimoya it would look like Lisa or 4718 this has no cherimoya features. This is what a cherimoya cross with reticulata looks like.

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