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Messages - treefrog

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251
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: new avos
« on: February 20, 2014, 09:33:48 AM »
mark,

"...If you like citrus..."  citrus is o.k. i guess, but i grew up in the middle of 60 acres of citrus in central florida in the days just after WWII.  those were not prosperous days in our neighborhood.   citrus was often on the menu.  sometimes, it seems in memory, there was little but citrus.  i'm afraid i got overdosed on citrus at an early age. 

252
i grew up in winter haven, and there were lots of avocado trees around - individual backyard trees, no commercial operations.  the brogdon avocado was developed by tom brogdon who lived across the lake from us.
there were almost no mangos.  i'm not sure, but i think this says mangos are not suitable that far north, but that avocados are.
that was a long time ago, and there have been many developments since the 1950s and '60s.  there are some avocados that have been developed in texas from mexican stock that are able to tolerate colder temperatures - lila (not lula) joey, wilma (aka brazos belle), pryor (aka fantastic) poncho, and several others.  these varieties are known to survive brief exposure to frost in the mid teens with only modest damage.  there are also california developed mexican types -  mexicola, mexicola grande, stewart, which can tolerate some exposure to frost in the teens.  then, there are also locally developed florida and georgia cold tolerant varieties - gainesville, cairo, and others.
the cold tolerant varieties are more tender when they are young, and need nurturing (or a lucky string of mild winters) while they are developing.  a planting site on the south or southeast side of a building helps.  a masonry wall north of the tree will heat up in the day and give off some heat at night.  covering with sheets or blankets during cold snaps helps.  a lightbulb under the cover adds a little warmth.
mounding up soil against the trunk above the graft will help.  if the exposed tree gets zapped by frost, often it comes back from the base.  if there is some live tissue above the graft, you may get your grafted variety back.  if it freezes down past the graft, any resprouting will be from the rootstock.  be sure that if a frost is coming the graft union is a few inches below soil.  to this end, plant it in a 6 inch deep saucer shape depression to begin with.   ...BUT!!! make sure you have good drainage.  avocados don't like wet feet.  waterlogged roots is the quickest way to kill an avocado tree.  if you have to (clay soil), build your saucer shaped depression on a small mound.

good luck

253
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: new avos
« on: February 19, 2014, 07:34:39 PM »
actually, i have more avo varieties than i mentioned.the total list (so far) is cairo, winter mexican, mexicola, wurtz dwarf, brazos belle (aka wilma). joey, fantastic (aka pryor), poncho and gainesville. this is waaaay too many for my limited space in the greenhouse.   even with a serious pruning program, it will be squeaky tight!
some of them will be only temporary greenhouse residents, until they are mature enough to be planted outside.  the cairo already is outside - on the south side of the main house porch.  it seems the most extremely cold hardy one i have.  it is also the one about which i know the least.  i have only anecdotal information on it, but the scion wood for it is said to come from a tree growing unprotected in georgia.  i have no idea what kind of fruit it will bear, but presumably it will have a seed in it.  i have hopes that its seedlings may prove to be very cold hardy rootstock.   ...and a few just to let grow into trees hoping some of them might inherit their parents' cold hardiness.   ...and one or two of them might have interesting fruit.  i have plenty of room and good soil.  there will be an interesting spectrum of other varieties' pollen in the air.  no telling what might happen in a few years time.

254
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Anyone growing Cassabanana?
« on: February 19, 2014, 10:46:24 AM »
i tried cassabanana last year.  the season here wasn't long enough.  i trick that will help raise germination percentages is soaking the seeds in tepid water - FOR SEVERAL DAYS!  like four or five days.

255
some dogs like to dig.  some dogs are stubborn.  good luck with the stones.   a little wire cage is better, but some dogs are natural diggers, and a little wire will just slow them down.    unless it's an electric fence wire.  dogs learn fast.  they won't have to get zapped more than twice to learn not to go near dadddy's tree.  maybe just once.

256
i have this kind of bud on three of my mangos.  lancetilla,  maha chanok, and Neelam.  also more conventional buds forming.  being in north florida, i think i'm a little behind the calendar for other places - 6 weeks? 
my poor Neelam got damaged in my greenhouse construction.  not once, but twice!  i planted the mangos last spring, and built the greenhouse around them.  taking down the scaffolding for the roof installation, the Neelam got stuff dropped on it.  it responded by pushing a LOT of buds this year.  it was also the only one that produced fruit the first year.  it gave me one (1) mango last fall.  it was delicious.

257
Tropical Fruit Discussion / new avos
« on: February 16, 2014, 02:17:06 PM »
i went by my friend john's place and picked up three more avocado trees.  first, a "poncho" as a housewarming present for a lady friend of mine.  i'm going to keep it in its pot in my greenhouse until mid april and then go plant it at her house.  poncho is pretty frost - hardy after the first couple years.  we have a spot picked out in a sheltered location on the south side of her new house.  a couple or three years of babying (cover with sheets, with a light bulb underneath on cold nights) and maybe she'll have an avo tree.

also picked up a "gainesville"  which i understand is similar to "mexicola."  this one is tiny, about fifteen inches tall in a 4" "tree pot."  this also will be nurtured inside the greenhouse, until it's a lot bigger.  then, it goes outside. 

third, i got a "fantastic"  which is the same as a "pryor" except for the copyrighted name and possibly the rootstock.  this is also going to be grown on for another year or two in a larger pot in the greenhouse, then planted out when it has a trunk maybe the size of a baseball bat.  this is one of the "fantastics" that are produced by hopkins in immokalee. 

pryor and fantastic have a reputation of good cold-hardiness.  i already have a "cairo" growing outside the greenhouse in a sheltered location.  it came through the winter with very little damage.  the terminal bud got zapped, but i was going to prune that to encourage branching anyway.  my mexicola made it through two winters before i built the greenhouse around it, and there are a few mature avos in the neighborhood. 

i'm not sure where all this is leading, but the basic idea is to push the envelope for tropical fruit here in north florida.  if all goes well, i hope to have hardy avos growing in the yard, and more tender ones in the greenhouse with the mangos.  i have pryor/fantastic, mexicola, gainesville, and cairo, i hope to have a supply of seeds for cold-hardy rootstock.  i may be able to get something going.

i know most of these cold-hardy varieties have only mediocre quality fruit.  if i have enough seed stock, i will be able to throw a lot of seeds in the ground,  i have four acres to play with.  who knows, if i throw the genetic dice often enough, i may get lucky.  an avocado cold hardy enough to stand north florida/south georgia winters that produces good fruit?   who knows?

many failures can be traced to a lack of making the attempt.

meanwhile, i'll get to eat a lot of avocados to get the seeds.   what's not to like?

258
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What pot do you use?
« on: February 15, 2014, 01:30:07 PM »
i move some plants in and out  seasonally to maximize space usage in the greenhouse.  for my bananas, i like to get 55 gallon plastic barrels and cut them in half (equatorially).  they are easy to cut with an electrical circular saw ("skillsaw").  four of five slits cut across the bottom corners work well to provide drainage.
this produces a good result, but isn't very "decorative,"  but i am more interested in utilitarian factors.  if decor is a question, they could be dressed up a little with burlap glued to the outside, or some paint   ...get creative.   

with pots this size a dolly or handtruck is a blessing.

259
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Another Accurate Weather Forecast...NOT!!
« on: February 14, 2014, 09:46:12 AM »
30 here this morning.  forecast said 34.  i knew better than to trust them, and closed the greenhouse yesterday evening.  no noticeable damage. 
it's a forecast, remember, not a prediction or a promise.

260
Tropical Fruit Discussion / need bees?
« on: February 13, 2014, 09:21:04 AM »
i had noticed the absence of bees on my mexicola and joey flowers in my greenhouse even though i had two large openings to invite them. (one 5'x7' low on the west, and one 3.5'x12' high on the north)

i had thought that they were absent because it was still off and on wintery weather.  walking around my yard, however, i looked up at my neighbor's flowering cherry.  it was full of bees, visiting its flowers.

conclusion, the bees are awake and on the job - they just haven't found my avo flowers which are smaller and much less showy than the flowering cherry next door.  also, they are not as much out in the open. 

the next morning, after sleeping on it and giving it a lot of thought, i went to the pantry and got a jar of cheap clover honey that i had found on sale last year.  i smeared about a teaspoonful of honey on the jamb on either side of the open doorway.  it took the bees about an hour to find it.  they cleaned up the honey and then began working the avo flowers.

problem solved.

261
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« on: February 12, 2014, 11:52:59 AM »
Leo look at this chart. I think I will give a try to Winter Mexican. I think this is the fruit sold at Nornan Brothers in 87 Avenue south of Sunset in Miami in March and April. I think it would grow well here. Well someone is growing them. I wonder if any of the Forum member is growing it he in Dade?



carlos,
winter mexican is started in my greenhouse in north fla.  3 gal grafted from jene's tropicals in st pete. planted june 2013 only vegetative growth so far.  seems to have a "weeping" growth habit.  other than that, nothing to report (yet)

treefrog

262
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: No Mango Blooms Yet
« on: February 01, 2014, 11:23:54 AM »
february first and nothing yet.   maha chanok has some interesting looking buds pushing.  likewise Neelam and lancetilla.   both mallika and cogshall still in deep dormancy. 

all are young trees and only 15 miles from the georgia line.  got plenty of temps in the high to mid thirties in the greenhouse these past few weeks. 

263
hard to go wrong with a Neelam  (various spellings)

264
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Maluma : New avocado variety
« on: January 25, 2014, 10:35:38 AM »
Henk van Niekerk sounds pretty dutch to me. I would like to try their new cado, i bet it is true what they say, better then a hass.

dutch, or afrikaans

265
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: joey avocado type "A?"
« on: January 24, 2014, 09:59:48 PM »
that flower opened this afternoon (the fourth day, not the second) as a male.  conclusion:  i think my joey is "A" type, but with the cold induced delay, i cannot be certain.  i'll check again later after this cold spell is over.

266
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What so special About an avacado?
« on: January 24, 2014, 10:41:38 AM »
I ate avocado for several times, but so far, I do not find any reason, why people eat it and why it is so popular, especially in the US.
For me, this fruit is in my basket called "no reason to eat it again" together with tamarillo, kumquat, salac and papaya.
If you think of avocado as a fruit, then it's not so special. But if you think of it as a staple food, it's very VERY special. As a vegetarian it's very hard to imagine life without avocados. Also if used as a staple food, you still have to know how to prepare it. Just biting into one, as you would a peach or a mango, is not going to excite almost anyone (except me and a few other strange ones).

actually, there are several varieties that have skins so thin that just biting into them is an option.  try a mexicola with the skin still on.  o.k. they're small, try two.  would you peel an apple?  a plum?  a grape?

unfortunately, the thin skinned ones are hard to find in the markets.  they don't ship or store well.  ...something to do with being thin skinned.   :)

267
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: joey avocado type "A?"
« on: January 23, 2014, 11:40:52 AM »
nothing opened the second afternoon.  we are having a cold spell.  i am told cold temps destabilise avocado blossom timing.   :(     so far, observable data are inconclusive.  at this point, joey's a-b status is  still a question.

268
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: joey avocado type "A?"
« on: January 21, 2014, 03:33:55 PM »
Check this page for info and photos on the subject: http://www.myavocadotrees.com/avocado-flower-type-indicator.html

Did the flower looked like this?





yeah, a lot like that.  it's closing up now (mid afternoon, temp = 62 (f))

269
Tropical Fruit Discussion / joey avocado type "A?"
« on: January 21, 2014, 11:41:03 AM »
my joey avocado opened its first flower this morning.  appears to be pistillate (prominent pale structures arising in the center).  this would indicate type "A" flower?  no?

270
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Haul from U.S. Largest Fruit Tree Sale
« on: January 20, 2014, 12:43:12 PM »
the solution for squirrels (bushy tailed rats) is rat poison from the feed store!

271
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Vitamin b1 on first year trees?
« on: January 20, 2014, 12:35:21 PM »
i've always had good results with 5-10-15.  this is a common fertilizer available at feed stores wherever soybeans are raised.  lighter doses more often works well for me.  also trace elements, compost and mulch. 

272
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Greenhouse Heater
« on: January 18, 2014, 08:34:26 AM »
hifarm,

"I don't know if the bubble wrap is helping you much.  The same insulation that "holds the heat" for you also slows down the heating up of the water in the first place."

the heat comes in as light waves - primarily infra-red.  bubble wrap is transparent.  it gets in o.k.  getting out, it's warmed air.   it slows down, lasts longer.

273
carlos,

no poncho flowers open yet, but it looks like soon.  i will let you know when it happens.  the weather here is on the cool side.  that has been known to make the a-b flowering pattern irregular.  we'll just have to see what happens.

274
My poncho is blooming nicely now. Anyone know how cold these super cold hardy avocados can take before the blooms are.killed? I'm supposed to get mid 30s this week.

my poncho has blossom buds - since about two - three weeks ago.  they look like they're getting close to ready.  it is my understanding that the blossoms can survive nights into the mid -  high twenties as long as it warms back up by the time they open in the mid-morning.

275
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Airlayering? So oldfashioned!
« on: January 17, 2014, 08:34:53 PM »
kool!  i gotta try it.  here's hoping it works.

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