Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers



Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - RobPatterson

Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5]
101
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« on: September 11, 2015, 11:55:45 PM »
I live in City of Ontario. Its right on the edge of the transition from inland valley to low desert. Im 25 miles from the beach, the mountains and the deserts of Palm Springs, so the climate here is usually the most annoying of any of those three. Its hot and dry during the summer, cool and dreary in winter, but reasonable during the fall and spring. Most of my plants do fairly well, even though they aren't in anywhere near appropriate conditions or locations. Due to the size of my yard and proximity to my neighbors house Ive had to do the best with whats available to me, but the yellows specifically have been a constant disappointment.

102
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« on: September 10, 2015, 11:54:47 PM »
From a personal standpoint, Ive given up on the yellow megalanthus variety of dragonfruit. Its frustrating to grow and often doesn't yield large fruit in any sort of quantity. Its true that it is a VERY sweet variety, but the ones that grow for me are JUST sweet, not really flavorful. It's like comparing orange juice to a glass of sugar water; sure the sugar is sweeter, but the OJ is tastier. Im not pulling out my existing yellows, but Im sure not going to be sad if they peter out. Perhaps its the climate where I live that's lowering their quality, that I really don't know, but I do know Ive got a long list of other plants I'd be willing to trade them out for when the time comes.

103
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« on: August 31, 2015, 11:00:47 PM »
Yes, its S8 (Sugar Dragon). They were first out of the gate this year. The others are a few more 'heritage' white variety fruit, one of the plants I started with back in the olden days when I first started growing (4 years ago). It makes nice sized fruit but its the milky fleshed, kinda bland flavor. I have another white, one I got from growers out here in So Cal, that they started from seed by cross-breeding whites. They called it "K-Series", why I don't know, but its almost as sweet as some of the more popular varieties, good size and nice crisp paper white flesh. Those will be the next ones to ripen.




104
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« on: August 31, 2015, 12:04:11 AM »


Not a bad start to the picking season. First harvest of my first flush of flowers. A lot of the second wave flower buds have been killed off by the heat here in So Cal, though.

105
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« on: August 15, 2015, 11:40:47 PM »
Don't remove the new shoots. When a plant sends out new shoots from its tip area, that usually means that the existing branch as hit the end of its growing cycle/length, and is pushing out its resources to new shoots to continue its growth expansion. Give them some time and see if they all mature into solid new branches, and then consider cutting back one or two, until the plant reaches its desired height. To be honest, though, its not absolutely necessary to cut back any branches this early, if you can get them to cooperate and train them to grow up your post to your canopy. 3 branches can mean 3x the new shoots when the plant is finally tall enough to start growing it back down for fruit production. It all depends on your growing style and your support system you've provided for the plant to live on. As you can see by the included picture, which is about 2 years old now, Im a big fan of letting the plants have some say in how they decide to grow


106
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« on: August 11, 2015, 06:58:44 PM »
Thanks simon, fyliu and ricshaw.

Okay, so I have to take the fruit that was cross pollinated and sow its seeds and this plant would then turn out a different colored fruit. It's not certain that the fruit would be pink, it could be anything, as you guys say. And of course plants grown from seeds are not true to their mother plant. So basically I would be creating a new color/flavor fruit.

Sounds interesting and would like to try once my plants start flowering. The long wait for the seeds to grow in to mature plants is the only down side.
If you are going to experiment with cross breeding, my suggestion to start out with would be volume, especially if you are going to be crossing radically differing species, like a yellow and red. Cross your fruit, let them mature and then harvest ALL the seeds. Spread them out over large areas, like baking pans or similar large surface areas, and wait for them to grow. Watch how the seedlings mature and keep an eye out for characteristics of the new shoots. After a few weeks to months, you should be able to distinguish between species. For example, if you were trying to grow pink fruit with the sweetness of yellow, you might want to eliminate most yellow shoots once you know which they are, so you don't get caught in the yellow megalanthus's 180 ripening cycle. This will cut your observation crop down quite a bit. THen just keep looking for abnormalities in the maturing plants. A pink branched plant that matures with the thorns from a yellow (as an example) might end up being an entirely new species, and something to consider paying favor to. Of course, the new plants might make entirely new fruit without showing a single variation in structure from the parent species, which just goes to show the importance of experimental breeding and is a testament to the effort and work the people who do this sort of thing put into this.

107
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« on: August 11, 2015, 06:41:30 PM »
Its like cross breeding in most other areas. If you take 2 things with differing traits but compatible reproductive systems, what you end up with is a mix of various components of the 2 parents, but to varying degrees. Some traits can be dominant while others are easily suppressed. Often times it takes multiple generations of cross pollinating to get specific attributes like size, color, sugar content, etc. up to where you want them. Even Self fertility and self pollination are genetic traits that may or may not survive a crossing.
Also, regardless of what species you pollinate with, you'll always get a fruit that matches the flowering plants species. Its the seeds that get the new genetic code. You don't change the womb with new pollen.
Also Ric, the thing with cross pollinating creating bigger fruit is not on a genetic level, but on a abundant fertility level. The the only way I can explain it is that using another species' pollen actually makes the flower you put it on generate a bigger fruit, which I think is a result of more successful pollen acceptance, which generates more seeds per individual fruit. Like twins in a single womb. I don't know if this is fact or speculation, and Ive never experimented with this as I normally use a single species type of pollen for all my plants (as long as its available). It wont cause the seeds to generate plants that produce bigger fruit, unless that is one of the specific genetic markers that gets handed down from the chromosome paring.

108
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« on: July 27, 2015, 11:46:44 PM »
Are you sure about that brix reading?
If this plant weren't being moved I have a suggestion, and that is to actually bury the pot in the ground. This allows you to have the protection of the pot's armor while keeping out aggressive root seekers, and lowers the chances of annoying tip-overs. If you have a strong back at your disposal, just dig a pot sized hole, but maybe an extra foot or two deep, then line the hole with weed blocker fabric and fill in the extra foot of depth with pure sand or fine gravel. This gives you a 'French drain' layer to help dissipate excess watering or rain. Then just place your pot and backfill.
Also, for long term usage, I tend to use non-toxic treated lumber or Trex composite, with a few layers of burlap wrapped and nailed to it. Keeps the post from rotting and still allows the aerial roots something to grip onto.

109
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« on: July 26, 2015, 12:45:16 AM »





Heres some images of the first proper S-8 Sugar Dragon of the season. This is about average size for the fruit, and good color. Brix score varies a little bit between fruit, and the 18.0 is a smidge low but it could be because it's a first flush fruit. Most of the plants make up for the small size by putting out larger numbers of fruit.

110
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« on: July 19, 2015, 12:43:23 PM »
Well, when I say 'hobbyist' I mean the more casual home growers. Those folks tend to seek out self fertile varieties, to make sure they can get fruit out of a few, or even a single plant. Anyone who takes the time to post on these sort of message boards or seek out genuine expert advice would probably fall into an "enthusiast" category. People who understand that to get some of the better fruits requires extra effort.

111
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« on: July 19, 2015, 02:34:18 AM »
Artificial lighting should have little effect on pollination due to there being very little activity normally during overnight hours, as most plants that get 'assistance' by pollinators in the US (by bees normally) happens in the early morning when the flowers are still open and the insects are getting to work. The plant is naturally pollinated by moths and bats and other night insects in its native environments, but we don't have much of those types of critters in the US, as our varieties are either day shift workers or carnivores looking for bugs, not nectar. A nighttime camera shoot should be totally doable.
As for varieties, remember, theres a difference between self fertile and self pollinating. Self pollenating generally don't require any outside assistance to create fruit and are ideal for harvest crops, but as of right now most, if not all , of those varieties are not of sufficient quality to make a spash at market, although the work continues to correct that. Self fertile, however, makes up the bulk of the plants we 'hobbiest' growers own, due to the fact that most of us don't want to end up with a pile of dead flowers because we didn't have compatible pollen in time to fertilize what our plants see fit to produce. One important thing to note though is that location and climate can make self fertile plants into self pollinating, given a few things. For example, in a breezy or windy location pollen can work its way down the inside of a flower onto the stamen by being shook loose and basically just trying to fall out. At my house, if I find a flower I managed to forget to pollinate by hand, I always give it a good jiggle in the hopes that there is some pollen left inside.
Personally, Id prefer to have a better quality fruit that took a little bit more effort than a mediocre one that was completely hands off, but that's just me.

112
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« on: July 16, 2015, 02:59:36 AM »
Remove as much of the rotten tissue as you can, either manually with your hands or a knife, then aggressively spray the area with a hose jet nozzle. Then clean up as much of whats left as possible to tidy up the area. Doesn't matter where on the plant it is, if you would like to keep the plant further along the stem, just treat the problem area. Think of it as washing out a bad cut or scrape. Sometimes you have to really get in there and dig out the bad stuff so it can heal right. As long as the core remains intact, the plant mass further up will survive.
Now, rotting that starts at ground level might actually be progressing from deeper still. Its a possible sign of root damage/rot. If you can do so, and the plant is large enough, pull up on the main stem and see if it gives way, but do it gently. If it doesn't budge under very light upward stress, you probably don't have a problem. But, when doing so, you might come up wth just a nub if the roots have decayed. Even this is not a complete death sentence for a otherwise healthy plant, btw.
If you have a large plant and the roots die, or the plant somehow becomes detached from the roots due to damage or rodents, etc, the plant will try and reestablish contact with the soil just like a cutting would. I've seen this firsthand where a Haleys Comet plant about 2 years old started sprouting massive ammounts of new roots at the base, enough to make the plant look like it was growing in a pile of angel hair pasta. When I investigated, I found the plant had come completely detached from the ground somehow. So, I piled up soil around the new roots and watered a bit more frequently for a while, and the plant is doing fine a year later, happy as a clam, and starting to bud for the season.

113
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« on: July 14, 2015, 12:01:43 AM »
I have 10 DF in 15 gallon containers, with trellises. I have a question. I noticed today the one with the largest segment, probably 18" long and almost as thick as my forearm was starting to rot so I cut it off. The rooting segment plus the three sprouting from this big one look perfectly fine. Its the only container I have that's in morning shade only, the rest are in filtered sun all day long(it's  100-120 degrees here during the summer). I never moved it with the others because it was growing so big right where it was. Since it's in the shade I sparsely water it compared to the others.

 Do you think the fact that it spends so much time in the shade has anything to do with it rotting? And why might you guess the other segments look fine, but the biggest and greenest of them all is the one that got sick?
Was the 'rotting' area turning a sort of honey yellow, and a bit mushy? Possibly centered around a thorn point and spreading out length-wise in both directions? That sort of rot is usually caused by a bacterial infection in the soft tissue of the plant. It can work is way in under a thorn, or through branches banging against each other and piercing their skin with other thorns. I do not know the type of bacteria this is, or its source of spreading from plant to plant, but it somewhat common at my house, on certain species. On newer branches I cut away the entire stem, but on older growth I can successfully remove the infected tissue with a sharp knife and wash the infected area clean with a garden hose on a strong jet setting. As long as you wash away the affected tissue and peel away any remaining loose skin from the area, exposure to the air will dry up and harden the remaining exposed tissue and the plant will keep going strong. Remember, as long as the central, wooden core of the branch remains intact, the plant will have no problem supporting living tissue further up the line.
Now, as a side note, other conditions that can kill the tissue can also bring on this bacterial condition. If you have a branch that gets separated from the main plant or a whole plant that the root system goes into shutdown, the bacteria can start to consume the tissue as it dies, which can radically increase its spread. Its always best to deal with infections as soon as you find them. Even something as simple as poking a finger through a soft area to let the air in can change the course of a bout of this problem. The bacteria seems to be anaerobic, and shuts down and dries up fast when exposed to air. If you want, you can also add a anti-fungal/anti-bacterial treatment to areas once you've cleaned them, but that's a persona choice, with organic and non-organic options available.

114
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« on: July 08, 2015, 12:04:49 AM »
The "umbrella" technique, where you have one (or more) main shoots lashed to a post, trimming off side growth everywhere but the top, is the most practical shape for a plant, if you have the space for it. It allows for uniform access to most of the branches in all directions. However, since not everyone has that kind of space, there have been many other techniques used, such as:
Trellising as they do with grape vines, rows of short T posts with pipes or other supports running along them, like wires on telephone poles, to give the branches support, but in a more of a row then single round plants.
Ive seen people grow DF up trees, as they naturally do, and then just letting them hang off like moss
Ive also seen dragonfruit growing down slopes (mostly from pics in Hawai'i).
The basic idea of all these is that the branches need some sort of support for their natural heavy weight, which only increases when they start bearing fruit. Under normal conditions, when an unsupported branch gets too long, it will break off and form a new plant. For us growers, that's bad, as we don't want random cuttings taking over our growing areas. They need to follow the program and make us fruit. At my house, Ive got a bit of a unique situation, where most of my plants are growing in a narrow space between mine and my neighbors yard, and I live in a track home, so limited space makes for desperate measures. Im including a couple pics so you can get an idea of one way to think outside the box. Just remember, your plants need sun, water, room to grow and proper nutrition. To get fruit, they need time to mature and, if possible, a support system that allows them to let their branches hang down, which tends to concentrate the flowering chemistry.
btw, these pics are about 2 years old.




115
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« on: July 07, 2015, 01:42:14 AM »
its technically not a weight issue, but more of a maturity issue. Just like in most things, plants have to reach a level of maturity before they can reproduce, doubly so in perennial plants (as opposed to annuals). If you trimmed every offshoot from a dragonfruit plant and reduced it to a single branch, after a time, usually a growing season, that branch would have developed the chemical production and physical size to create the chemistry necessary to induce flower budding. You wouldn't get much in the way of fruit though, because you would be forcing the plant into an orientation foreign to its natural design. Remember, Mother Nature is a heck of an engineer, and has a way of making things work according to their environment.
Pitahaya is natively a climbing plant, working its way up the landscape to achieve a reasonable size for propagation, which it does in 2 ways:
1. Chemistry changes in the native soil, which correlate with the additional sun and rainfall of the spring and summer seasons, induce flowering, and then fruiting, in order to spread new seeds across the landscape. Sweet edible fruit encourage the process by getting animals to eat the fruits flesh and then deposit the seeds, along with some natural fertilizer, randomly in new places, through hard to digest seed coatings and spotty droppings. BTW, nature's way of adding flowering indicators to the soil is the return of birds to the area, which produce high amounts of phosphorus in their droppings, which gets washed from trees and leaves and into the soil through seasonal rainfall.
2. Branches of plants in low nutrient areas wilt a bit and break off, creating natural cuttings, which also bring new plants, although usually in a more limited radius, but something is better than nothing.

116
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« on: July 02, 2015, 08:45:39 PM »
I have had dragon fruit for three years,  they are monsters but have never flowered,  what can I do?
Try adding a large dose of Bud and Bloom fertilizer to the plants. I'd get confirmation on this first, but I hear people talking about adding "cups" worth of fertilizer, but Im not sure if that's a cup (8oz) of raw fertilizer mix or one liquid cup of BnB mixed with water according to the recommended mixing proportions. Either way, to shock mature plants into bearing fruit, use a high potassium ratio supplement.
p.s. incase you are not aware, the potassium level is the second number in a fertilizers X/X/X stats, which are N/P/K (nitrogen/potassium/phosphorus)

117
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« on: June 20, 2015, 12:57:23 PM »
Im not sure what the weather is like in Florida right now, but here in CA, bud death like that is usually caused by excessive heat. We're starting to see some very warm temperatures right now and I expect to see a lot of reports next week about peoples buds and flowers aborting in large numbers. Not much you can do about the ambient temperature, but if you can manage some partial shade for the plant it might curb the flower loss a bit. You have to shade as much of the plant as you can, though, as the heat being soaked up by the branches is doing as much damage, if not more, than the direct sunlight on the bud is, basically raising the temperature of the entire plant structure to the ambient air temperature, plus whatever heat the absorbed sunlight generates. The pics you shared seem to be of a white variety, based on the corked edges and lighter green colored branches, and those tend to take less of a hit from sunlight induced heat buildup, due to the lack of dark pigment, but over time it can still play havoc with fruit production.
Of course, you still need to make sure you are watering more regularly now that its summer and that the plant has all necessary nutrients to produce healthy branches and blooms to start with.

118
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« on: June 19, 2015, 02:50:27 AM »
If you have a permanent location where you are going to keep them, there is no reason you cant go ahead and put them in the container you plan on leaving them in for the rest of their lives. When transplanting, if you used cheap black plastic containers to start with, I would recommend using a box cutting knife to cut, or at least score, the side of the container you are removing the plants from, so you can 'peel' off the old pot, rather than trying to yank them out by the stalk. Ive had a few plants where I lost large portions of roots because they were very shallow and ripped away when I tried to pull them out of the smaller pots. Also, to minimize risk of damage, prefill the new container with a reasonable amount of your planting medium, then set the transplant in and full around it. Don't try to force deeper roots by putting the root ball deep; Ive had bad luck trying that, personally. If the plant seems like its fragile and the roots might not survive the transfer, pre-cut the old container up the side, and once around the bottom, then place it in the new container, and gently work the old pot out from around the root ball. Also, it helps to have whatever post your are going to lash the plant to in place before the move, so you can secure it in a few places before you take hands off. Some species, like American Beauty, have fragile "knuckles" between the stems, and break easily when manipulated.

119
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« on: June 18, 2015, 10:25:32 PM »
You can cut the plant down to a single branch and still have it bear fruit, although you're not going to get much. The fruiting process basically boils down to a few key issues:
1. Fruit bearing flowers are almost exclusively formed on 'hardened' branches, which are last seasons growth, or very early same season, depending on weather conditions. These do tend to be more productive when hanging with tips facing down, but the "plant has to be XX size" is a myth in my opinion. It just needs to be allowed to grow and the branches to harden. I have a American Beauty cutting that I left in a pot and didn't stake it up, and its just growing like a Creeping Charlie plant, branches hanging over the edge of the pot, and in its second year its bearing fruit, without having to be run up a post first, then being allowed to hang. In my experience that is gravity possibly pulling heavier chemical triggers and pooling them at the ends of branches, which is one reason why branch tips, especially cut ones, tend to form fruit.
2. The entire plant is one big chemical reactor, converting nutrients, sunlight and water into the chemistry needed for growth, survival and reproduction. The bigger the plant, the more chemicals it can create, and the more it can spread around to other parts of the plant that might be lagging behind for various reasons, such as shade, disease or damaged structure.
3. Each branch, with its multiple thorn points (areoles), increases the chance of bearing fruit, just through shear number of available points to start new growth.
4. Proper nutrition can make even the smallest of plants (of proper fruiting "age") put out fruit like a champ. However, once you run out of possible new growth points, you basically stunt the plants growth, so make sure you keep a minimum amount of plant mass for continued plant development.
The basic idea is that if you let the plant grow a bit, you can trim it to a reasonable size, but you do need to feed it, water it (opinions vary on this detail) and, if you can, let it grow down in one manner or another, to give it a chance to do what it naturally does.

120
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« on: June 13, 2015, 12:52:10 AM »
Hi guys (and gals). First post here, but I wanted to jump in on the pollination topic. The best pollinator Ive found is the S-8 Sugar Dragon. Its a universal pollinator, successful on all dragon fruit, even itself, and produces a ton of pollen per flower. It also keeps well in the freezer when properly prepped. When kept in the same environment, it buds and blooms as early as almost every species I own (I had one American Beauty plant jump the gun this year and start early), which here at my house is May when they start opening, and can run as late as blooming in November. Plus the fruit, while small, is very tasty and is great for cooking and making ice cream. Its also fairly disease resistant and grows quickly. Anyone I share cuttings or plants with I try to push at least one S-8 on them for at least the pollen. 

Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5]
Copyright © Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers