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Messages - LivingParadise

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626
I mulch and any weeds that come up, which they will, get nailed with a glyphosate spray.


You might want to keep in mind that chemicals are not actually necessary to keep plants living and prospering, and that what we pump into our soil then goes into the plant's cells and we end up eating it. It also goes into our water supply when it rains as run-off, and we end up drinking it - our water treatment facilities cannot filter out these poisons, they stay in our drinking water and build up the more people in our country put chemicals into our soil. Exposure to chemicals like herbicides have many direct links to cancer and chronic illnesses in people, and over many years they build up in the system so a small exposure becomes a big one. They also kill beneficial bugs and animals, including honeybees.

I happened to go to a lecture just tonight that was focusing on these things, and showing the way such chemicals have destroyed the hormonal workings of our local fish, caused male frogs to grow ovaries, and all sorts of other problems. The person giving the talk had worked for many years in a research hospital for children with cancer, and they found tons of these chemicals in the children's tumors and blood samples, that were there only because of exposure from family and community practices like this that people don't realize can kill - especially when dealing with children or anyone with a weakened or genetically vulnerable immune system. Very few of these chemicals have ever been tested for their safety, or the tests were performed and paid for by the company that makes the chemical - an obvious conflict of interest. Chemical companies have very powerful lobbies.

Prior to reading this thread, just today I also came across an article talking about the link between Roundup herbicide inert ingredients  and cancer, deformed animals, etc. It's a really interesting article: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/weed-whacking-herbicide-p/

These are things to think about.

Many "weeds" are pretty easy to identify and in fact have strong medicinal properties or are edible and extremely healthy - and you get them for free! It might actually be most beneficial to carefully identify what you have, and allow it to grow just big enough to use. Then you have 2 harvests - the plants at the base of the fruit tree, and the fruit tree itself! Purslane is an example of an extremely common weed that is actually VERY healthy, great in salads, and grown in other countries on purpose for food because it's delicious and has a lot of Omega-3s. We don't necessarily have to kill and control everything around us when we grow things in the natural world. Sometimes our environment brings us many gifts for free that we can use in addition to the thing we intentionally planted.

627
One thing that I found helps a lot when you have to weed is a Hula-Ho:
 http://www.amazon.com/Flexrake-1000L-Hula-Ho-Cultivator-54-Inch/dp/B000UGOBSQ/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8

It allows you to rip weeds out by the base in a matter of seconds without having to bend over, and I find it works all the better if you sharpen the edges. You just push down and use a motion sort of like a vacuum.

If you have a lot of mulch or use ground cover, though, you shouldn't have much in the way of weeds to worry about. Just be careful with the ground cover to make sure the roots can still get air and water - you want to kill weeds, not the tree!

628
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Conserving graywater for fruit trees
« on: March 18, 2015, 11:12:34 AM »
Do keep in mind that laundry detergents, if you use the mainstream store-bought types, have some of the harshest chemicals that are in the home. When you put that around the plant roots, the plants can take some of those chemicals up into their cells, and thus some of it will be in the fruit. These are NOT chemicals you want to consume. Moreover, these chemicals are extremely harmful to the environment around us, and can kill beneficial insects like bees, harm animals like birds, and when it rains the runoff goes into our drinking water and into our ocean (Florida) and is very harmful to reefs and to fish. Please consider that we have plumbing for a reason, and that graywater filled with sewage or harsh chemicals is not fit for putting into your yard and community. Wonderful if you decide to use natural soaps to lower the production of these chemicals in the first place, and their occurrence in your home. But, if you choose to keep using them, please carefully consider not dumping them into your yard so that they can poison your entire community. The more we add such chemicals to our land, through "cleaning," fertilizer, insecticide, etc, the more it builds up around us. Most of these are known carcinogens, so they harm people every bit as much as they harm other living things. Many chronic illnesses are thought to be responses to high levels of exposure to such chemicals over time, so just consider it.

If you're looking for ratings as to which household products are environmentally friendly, check out this website, the Environmental Working Group: http://www.ewg.org/
They give ratings as to the safety of cleaners, cosmetics, sunscreen, food additives, and a host of other things.  They give ratings to more than 2,000 commonly found products.

Here is their rating list for laundry detergents in particular since we're talking about it:
http://www.ewg.org/guides/categories/9-Laundry

I personally don't have a system to use my laundry water. I don't do frequent loads, and the stupid HE washer my house came with barely uses enough water to get the clothes wet anyway (hence why I wash some things that are not important in the shower because it's just easier). I get far more water from taking a shower than I could with 5 loads of laundry, so it's just not personally worth what it would cost me to put in such a system. My dishwashing is also pretty spaced out.
---
This is slightly off-topic but when I was looking for the links I happened across this article that I thought would be relevant to many here: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/weed-whacking-herbicide-p/
It discusses the link between use of Roundup herbicide and cancer, birth defects, and environmental damages - not from the ingredient that is supposed to be the herbicide, but from a supposedly inert ingredient COMBINED with the other ingredients, which had not be previously tested.
"..Argentine scientist and local activists reported a high incidence of birth defects and cancers in people living near crop-spraying areas. Scientists there also linked genetic malformations in amphibians to glysophate. In addition, last year in Sweden, a scientific team found that exposure is a risk factor for people developing non-Hodgkin lymphoma."
It was a pretty interesting article, so I thought I would add it here for those who want to read it.

629
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Conserving graywater for fruit trees
« on: March 17, 2015, 09:18:49 PM »
I do this as part of my daily living. I have a white bucket in each sink, and 3 large buckets in the shower (they go in a row in the tub, some in front and some behind me). It's pretty simple. I keep the buckets under the faucets to catch any water. If I am using any chemicals, or washing off any "biohazard" that I would not want to put on my plants for some reason - which are organic - then I push the bucket out of the way so the water can go in the drain, and move it back as soon as the water is suitable again. For the shower, I just step out of the way or slide the buckets when they are full or when say I have shampoo or conditioner I don't want to get in there. I collect a great deal of water, and use it for my plants indoors and out. Sometimes I also wash clothes or other things in the shower while I'm collecting the water - things I only wanted to rinse off and didn't need to be immaculately clean.  If I collect too much water during a time say that there's rain, I dump the excess into my rain barrel, which has organic mosquito dunks in it so I can keep the water there for a while. I have not finished the rain barrel, which hopefully by the end of this summer will have a spigot and hose attachment, so then I can use it to water my plants directly with the force of gravity, without having to lug buckets of water around.

Here is a guide to building a rain barrel from the Florida Keys Aqueduct Authority: http://www.fkaa.com/buildingrainbarrel.pdf

When you get used to it, it's really easy, and is a good way to conserve and reuse water and save a little money. I find it also helps to remind me to use as few chemicals in my life as possible - I only use soap on my hands when I need to do more than just rinse them, and I try to use products where possible that are pretty natural so most of the time I can catch the water. It's fairly rare that I let the water go down the drain - but for instance I have not been able to compromise on hair products, and those chemicals are harsh so I let them go down the drain. The thing you have to remember is to remove the water from the house and not let it just sit around, because that can encourage mold if you are in a humid area (but might help humidity levels if you're in a dry area) and gray water especially from rinsing vegetables or whatever can get bacteria in it quickly so you want to pour it into sealable bottles or other containers to save for later, or put it in the treated rain barrel outside, so you don't get anything bad in your air that you will breathe in, nor smells. Here in the Keys it will rain a ton for a few months, and then be exceptionally dry, so it's worth it for me to find ways to save that water safely for a month or so at a time because I will have way too much, and then way too little.

As an aside, I also never throw garbage - I compost or recycle everything I use, and am about to throw my first garbage bag soon in 1.5 years! That also turned out to be easy. Since I don't eat meat, the things that I need to throw away that I can't reuse, recycle, or put in the compost pile are very few, and they are dry things that take up very little space. Learning to compost was such a great thing to keep my house clean, and also to help my plants, because now I never have to leave rotting fruits or vegetables for instance sitting in a can until garbage day - I can freeze them, or immediately dump them on the pile and turn it over, with no smell or pests. I was very intimidated once by all of these ideas, but now that I've gotten used to them I think they're as easy or easier than the way I lived before!

630
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Rubus glaucus in Florida?
« on: March 17, 2015, 01:15:11 PM »
It's not really a tropical fruit. I'm not sure how it could survive outside of a greenhouse, if it needs temps in the 50s-60s with high humidity to be happy. Even in Northern FL those temps are not year-round, and when it is cooler it is also very dry. So it might be doable but it would take a lot of work, and probably a controlled environment.

631
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grumichama flowering up nicely
« on: March 14, 2015, 08:21:34 PM »
This little fella fruited for the first time last year - gave us 2 or 3 fruits. Looked at it yesterday and it has exploded in flowers - just about the whole tree/shrub is covered in white flowers.




Is this in a full-sun location? Mine still looks healthy, but has not seemed to grow really at all in an entire year. I was expecting it to be a slow grower, but wow! Mine is in mostly (filtered) shade, so I'm wondering if it just needs more direct sun.

632
I find that when the addiction gets too much, I confine myself to seed-only purchases. They are a challenge, and a delight when they grow, and that keeps the space and budget significantly less - at least for a few years until the healthy ones are big enough to need space! It allows you to feel comfortable experimenting with hundreds of types too, that you can buy online and not pay a ton in shipping for, and if it doesn't grow well in your conditions oh well, only a few dollars lost and a bit of adventure gained. I think it also cultivates the patience and skill needed to be a successful gardener, because you really have to be in tune with your plants' needs to get them to grow successfully all the way through the baby, toddler, and teenage stages before they reach maturity!

633
I used to have a lemon tree that I bought and fruited consistently in a 7 gallon pot. It was a very cute, and at the time, lush tree, maybe about 5ft high at its top point. It lived for years, and then my heart broke when I moved with it several times and an out of control heater in an apartment up North burned it to death. I was only 2 months away from moving back down to FL and planting it finally in my own yard. :(  But point being, they are not really that picky about containers, especially if you're not planning to turn them into 25-ft trees.

Since my lemon tree was on a brick patio with a lot of sun, having a lip around the base did help to keep the water in so I didn't have to water very frequently. If $ is a concern, you can just as easily construct one from some aluminum foil shaped around the base of the pot. Especially if you're planning to plant them in the future, I personally wouldn't go too big, because then you need a backhoe to dig the hole to put it in. You can keep trees healthy and small and still get fruit, all the more so of course if you intentionally buy a dwarf variety - but often that's not really necessary, they'll stay small if they don't have room to grow. I never had a problem with root-bound plants, you just pull the roots out and separate them before planting so they can grow fresh in all directions, and they grow in and take hold just fine.

Although your mom might want to kill you, another option you can consider since you live in a warm climate is growing some of them in your room. In hot climates, the sun tends to be brighter and you don't even need much direct sunlight. I use plastic bags, but plastic pots are also fine for cheap costs. Another trick I have learned with potted plants is that they LOVE packing peanuts. If you have styrofoam (NOT the green kind that dissolve, but the old-fashioned terrible for the environment kind), you fill the plastic bag or pot 2/3 full with the styrofoam pieces, and then fill the rest of the way up with a good quality (I use organic) soil. It acts as super-light rocks. Often when I go to transplant later, I find that the taproots of plants I grow from seed end up choosing to grow directly through the styrofoam - they seem to like using it as some sort of anchor, rather than growing around it. The styrofoam is great recycling, allows for a huge savings on expensive soil, makes for excellent drainage and oxygen to the roots, and makes the pots super-light to move.  I found this to be necessary because I buy a lot of my plants from Top Tropicals, and they ship with the old fashioned peanuts, so I have hordes of them.  (I also made a bean bag chair with them.) Another trick if you're not getting enough light to the plants is to wrap the insides and top of your container with aluminum foil, which reflects light from the window around every side of the plant. In my case, I found that the climate here is too hot and that was actually too much light and scorched my plants, but it may work for colder areas or parts of houses with low lighting.

Just keep in mind for indoor plants that too many, or too much watering, can result in mold in the house, which can make you sick and destroy the value of the house. Generally no more than you can line along windows is a good rule of thumb, and don't overwater. I have fruited things indoors, so it is definitely possible, especially in hot climates with a lot of sun. You can always harden off slowly and bring them outside later, to keep outdoors, or to plant.

I have used plastic bags that cost me pennies, and plastic pots that came with the plants. Check craigslist, a lot of people are giving away plastic fruit pots, or selling them for very little. I find plastic with holes work well for drainage, are light, and cheap. Heavy pots that are more attractive are often breakable, expensive, hard to move, and don't allow enough drainage or oxygen to get to the roots to make the plant as happy as the cheap containers. You can also punch holes in plastic for additional oxygen if you choose. 

634
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Are dragon fruit thorns toxic?
« on: March 09, 2015, 04:14:11 PM »
Was it a radioactive Dragon fruit? Maybe you'll get super powers like uhh the ability to grow a few feet in a few months and you'll develop a very bland sense of humor.

LOL, hilarious... I'm sure the dragonfruit feel burned! I'd be careful, they may rise up in your sleep and take you out. I don't think I'd want to make them angry, especially not the heavy ones!

As for the OP, it's possible that the thorn had some dirt on it. Getting a deep wound that is contaminated in some way, including an almost microscopic piece of thorn still stuck in there, would react this way with any healthy immune system. It should get slightly hot, swollen, and red for a few days. The cause for concern is if the swelling is out of control, or seems to be spreading or affecting your breathing, or doesn't appear to be healing after two weeks. If it's just localized, it's totally normal. I find that a jeweler's magnifying glass and a needle are really helpful for finding pieces of debris you can't see with the naked eye. Antibiotic ointment applied liberally with a bandaid and massaged a little from time to time will help your skin work out whatever is still stuck in there that's causing the reaction. An allergy would be more pronounced, like the entire hand would swell up to nearly twice its size and be very painful. The wound being swollen is normal, that's what wounds are supposed to be like when the immune system sends little fighters in to defend the area.  I am constantly covered in wounds and scratches... it is a hazard of the hobby, especially when you work outdoors and deal with a lot of mature plants with very sharp edges!

635
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grewia asiatica 'Sherbet Berry'
« on: March 09, 2015, 02:46:40 PM »
This makes me very sad that the little seedling I bought died. I only had it maybe 2 weeks, and something in my yard ate it. I don't know what, as there are several pests that could be. I went to go find it in my yard to check on it, and all that was there was the skinny stump. :( It did not regrow since it had not yet established itself. Another $15 wasted... *sigh* I gave it a shot, simply because I was curious if it would do well here.

636
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Top Watermelon Varieties
« on: March 09, 2015, 02:22:38 PM »
Anyone in FL growing watermelon this summer?  Thinking about planting some out, but not sure which type to get.

It was my experience that the summer here was too hot for them. I grew some indoors last year, along with honeydew and cantaloupe. All flowered, but I got tired of pollinating all the flowers myself so after I got one successful pollination, I moved everything outdoors to let the insects do it. The sun was way too harsh, so I ended up moving them to full shade. But the heat was still too much for them, so they withered enough to succumb to an outbreak of spider mites I had. It was very sad, my one little melon was growing well at that point. I now think that winter into Spring would be a better time. I did not try it this year however due to being busy with other things. I might try again in the next few weeks in the shade, although it is already warming up here.

Anyone who has found successful cultivars for the SFL heat though, I would be happy to hear about! Maybe it is just my experience, but it is not really a tropical fruit. Our winter conditions are a lot closer to summer conditions up North.

637
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Return to the earth
« on: March 02, 2015, 07:06:43 PM »
I'm not interested in eating fruit made from the dead body of my loved one. I cannot think of anything less appetizing.

I do however think it's a nice idea to grow a tree that you don't plan to eat, from a loved one's remains - whether from ashes or the body directly or whatever. But here in FL there might be the added concern that some trees that are vulnerable might upend in a hurricane, and then your bones get scattered everywhere if you did not use ashes. Planting a tree when someone dies is a nice idea, especially if it is an environmentally responsible one. But I don't want the association that I am in some way eating my relative's dead body, or the literal fruits of its decomposition. A nice tree that supports local insects or animals would be a good choice though.

638
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: TREES! in the Keys
« on: February 19, 2015, 11:21:06 AM »
I thought I would add a few to the list that I forgot:

Noni - seems to be defying the odds and is THRILLED to be growing here [I can't vouch for whether this would be true of all Nonis, but the one I planted has not gotten any special watering or ANY amended soil, and seems extremely happy anyway.]

Candle Tree/Cucumber Tree/Guajilote/Parmentiera edulis - I expected this to struggle, but it LOVES it here!

Monstera deliciosa is supposed to do well here - I have not planted the 2 I bought yet to test it out

Ice Cream Bean - this tree seems very happy in the high PH soil here, I have not had to help it at all, nor water it that often

Also while mine are not big enough to fruit yet, all of these so far seem to be healthy with no need for special watering or soil:

Cherry of the Rio Grande
Imbe
Blackberry jam fruit/Randia formosa
Grumichama
Yellow Mangosteen/Randia fitzalanii
Natal Plum


Another Native I forgot is great to plant:

Wild Dilly (a native form of sapodilla that is a threatened species and not invasive like its cousin)


I have not planted it in the soil here, but I have noticed also that the Mysore Tropical Raspberry has done very well in the climate here in a pot. I keep it on my balcony to allow me a chance to get the fruit before the birds do! (This one you have to be careful not to let become invasive. It doesn't have an invasive rating in Florida, but if birds can reach the berries they will drop the seeds everywhere, and it is considered invasive in Hawaii.)

I have not planted it yet, but so far I have found Mangosteen to be very easy to grow indoors. Although it is not considered likely to be successful, I am going to try transplanting it to a large bag this week, and then I will put that directly in the ground with a ton of top-quality soil at the beginning of this year's rainy season. It has been very happy indoors, but I want to give it a chance to try to grow outside while it is still relatively young - the longer I wait the less chance that it can handle a transplant (some people believe after it is 2ft high it is already too late, and it is over 3ft now - but I got it when it was already more than 2ft). I have a perfect spot in the yard that is well protected from wind and sun, where if it grows up it can get full sun. Whether it will fruit is of course another story. But I can attest currently to it growing well in an indirect light window in the Keys. I just water it several times a week with tap water, no special care, and so far it's been happy over a year.

639
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: TREES! in the Keys
« on: February 19, 2015, 10:54:39 AM »
Wow, "LivingParadise"! Thanks so much for all the info!!

Regarding a rainwater cachement system, it turns out our new house has a HUGE partially in-ground concrete cachement tank that must have been built with the original house back in the 60s or earlier.  The people we are buying the house from only use it to wash their car (!!!) I will definitely use it for all the plant watering and may actually connect it to the house itself.
Regarding invasive plants, we will be literally surrounded by mangroves with a driveway connecting the high ground to the rest of the Keys.  Along that driveway I noticed a tree that to me looked like what in California is called tamarisk (also a major invasive here) but from web pictures could be what you call Australian Pine. We'll get rid of it!  Definitely want to do everything for the local bees!! We tried the local mangrove honey and are now hooked!
Thanks again, and hope to hook-up when we get down to the Keys for good!

Happy to help! It's great news that you have a cistern already. There are some new rules about installing them so you also likely get to bypass that given that yours would be grandfathered in.  All houses on the Keys once had cisterns, since there was no running water, and few places to get fresh water other than the sky!

Not sure from your descriptions, but are you on an island or peninsula, so you need your own road to connect to the rest of civilization? If so, that should be a lot of fun to experience and learn about the environment, and also provide you some much-needed natural protection from the deer!

I'm sure From The Sea could comment better on how to protect plants from deer, since we don't have that issue here in the Upper Keys, but I wonder how well perhaps planting very thorny bushes around certain areas might help, or perhaps even building up piles of coral rocks around some plants. I realize there are rules about fencing, and it is extremely hard to dig into the rocky soil anyway. I am experimenting with my own types of natural barriers due to dogs, cats, and people roaming the very front and very back of my property where it is not fenced. I'm trying a combination of coral rocks, snake grass, bougainvillea, areca palms, dragonfruit, and other dense and spiny things to see what works in keeping things out. If I'm lucky, it will also keep out some iguanas! I am also growing some bamboo stumps right now that I hope to transplant to the ground soon in an attempt to create a natural fence. Perhaps deer would chew bamboo and stop at that, not trying to climb over and past it? It would take a lot of maintenance though, because I know bamboo can totally take over and become almost impossible to control in certain conditions. I'm not sure though, it might be too dry here for it to get out of control that quickly. So I'll start with a small planting to test it out.

Australian pine and Brazilian pepper are extremely difficult to get rid of. It is a struggle to drag the stumps out even with chains and a truck, and the ground is too full of rocks to risk breaking chainsaws. However, if the yard is small enough that you can keep on it, I have found that repeatedly cutting the thing down to its base will eventually weaken the roots enough to rip it out of the ground (they keep growing back even more vigorously for a while!). People will tell you all sorts of chemicals might work, but that is adding an even more noxious element to your yard than the original tree was! I am going to test the theory of poured boiling water on roots and stumps next, on a few of the more stubborn ones that have not yet died or been able to be ripped out of the ground after repeated stumpings. After I cut it to the base, I'll pour the boiling water, and then cover it with a black tarp for a few months. Some of these plants are in areas of my yard with lots of other trees where it is just too hard to get easy access to them by digging at the ground. There is another nuisance which I have yet to definitively identify, but which might be some sort of acacia. There are literally thousands of them in my yard, and they are very difficult to pull out of the ground, they constantly grow back vigorously when sawed off, and even tarping them for months has not seemed to harm them. My hope is I will finally be rid of them in a few years, once most of the seeds are gone given that I have now cut down the trees which were large enough to bear pods and drop them all over my yard. Neighbors have also cut theirs down, so we may finally stop their total takeover of our neighborhood!

A note to prepare you, BPK of course has its own ecosystem, but here in the Upper Keys there are a number of things that attack me every time I do any yard work. I have two different species of fire ants, and they are in every part of my large yard and also climb on the trees. I am fortunate not to be allergic yet, but they are so tiny it is nearly impossible to avoid being bit, and every time I am I don't sleep for a week. Brazilian pepper and poisonwood are like poison ivy and no fun, and can even be fatal to those allergic. We also have scorpions, although they are not fatal for most people. Nearly every day I work in the yard, I encounter one or the other, or get scratched half to death by bougainvillea! :) Taming a yard that has been left to run wild for over a decade is hard work! I personally at least have not had much trouble with snakes, and the bees, wasps, and crocodiles seem to have much better things to do than to bother with people.

You will probably have loads of fun here. Despite how hard it has been, I would not choose any other place!  But these are just a few warnings since moving here can be a huge shock!

Since you have so many mangroves, you may also have a hard time with mosquitoes. I have heard that Mosquito Magnets work really well, and from time to time they are sold on craigslist here. I am currently experimenting with making simple organic mosquito traps to see how effective they are. Now is not the season to be sure though since it is so windy and dry compared to summer. Any of us who are in places where we can grow lush tropical plants outdoors must also contend with the mosquitoes that come with such an environment, so any means of easily getting rid of them are a good thing. I have citronella planted in various strategic locations around the yard so that if I forget bug spray or need reapplication, I don't have to go all the way back up into the house to get some - just rip a piece off and rub it on my skin. Quite a few of the plants here are good for bug bites, or for preventing mosquitoes. Key lime leaves are also supposed to be good for that, as long as you won't be in direct sun because the acid can cause a burn. Mosquitoes are not attracted to strong plant scents! But they do like the color black, and the scent of carbon from one breathing hard while digging a really tough hole through the rocks to plant a tree!

640
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: TREES! in the Keys
« on: February 19, 2015, 10:07:25 AM »
Great info and details of plants that grow in keys Livingparadise. I reckon Pricky Pear will grow great on a mound in the Keys, it has high tolerance for salinity and drought.

I have not heard of people growing prickly pear here, but I wouldn't doubt that it could be done. I finally broke down and bought a dragonfruit because they have sort of similar requirements, but it took me a while to make the decision because generally I don't like the look of cactus - I am a much bigger fan of rainforest than I am of desert! But as I'm here longer, if I find the drought-tolerant plants do better and the rainforest-type plants can't make it, I will try more and more desert-prone plants. I've got my fingers crossed for now that I won't need to!

I did find that planting non-desert plants on mounds was generally a mistake. My intention was to start off some of my more valuable plants with lots of good soil, and elevated so that they could survive saltwater or brackish water flooding during tropical storms or lower-category hurricanes. What I failed to consider, though, was that such plants would be CONSTANTLY dry and need far more frequent watering, for much longer, before they could establish roots that would go down far enough that they could get their own water. Two blue passionflowers died that way, but fortunately I saved everything else. I found instead a compromise where I built them up only slightly, with a partial plastic pot (with the bottom cut out) holding in the dirt on the mini-mound. Hopefully, this will help to avoid flooding in more mild storms, and if there is a severe storm I can just water the mini mound portion after the flooding recedes so the upper roots at least will have low-salinity dirt. The mounds are not high enough to make it difficult for the trees to reach water in the ground. Not sure how this will play out, but so far it has worked well, with the plants looking healthy, and no storm yet has caused flooding severe enough to reach any of them. I planted them in order of salt and flood tolerance though from lowest elevation in the yard (and nearest to the waterfront) to highest, to help them manage here as best they can.

641
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: TREES! in the Keys
« on: February 19, 2015, 09:52:09 AM »
I get a lot of my stuff in homestead, no need to speak Spanish just need to find the younger people that work at the nurseries.

The deer are the biggest problem I have here.

 

To clarify, I didn't meant that one needed to speak Spanish to get along in Homestead, but only that speaking Spanish seems to garner the best deals when purchasing at one of the nurseries. For the most part, they are large operations that are not set up for individual single-plant buyers, and rarely have anyone on hand who is there to accept visitors from the public. The ones I have gone to you have to wander around to find someone working, and then I noticed when speaking English they might quote a high price for a tree, but if I speak Spanish I get a much lower price offered. These places I have gone to are more set up for mass purchases, so they don't have prices posted on anything nor customer service people. Since the drive up to Homestead is going to cost something in gas and car wear-and-tear from BPK, it seems to me only worth it if you can get a healthy tree at a really good price! I find it too much hassle to haggle with people and try to find rare specimens, so that's why I've usually preferred to just ship them from TopTropicals. An example of price difference with Spanish though, is one 7-gallon Lemon tree I bought years ago was initially quoted to me as $75 in English. When I started speaking Spanish, all of a sudden the tree was offered to me at $40 because a cultural rapport was felt. So I think it's a definite advantage.

642
I have done this. I got an insane outbreak on the potted plants on my balcony of aphids, spider mites, and whiteflies all at the same time. Although there are some ladybugs in my yard, which like to eat aphids and other pests, they don't fly up high enough to hang out on the balcony. So I immersed the pots completely underwater held down with a weight for 24 hrs. Killed everything but the plant, and since then the plants I did this with have been healthy and pest-free. I wish I could do this with my in-ground plants! But that is not so easy... :)

643
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: TREES! in the Keys
« on: February 18, 2015, 10:27:07 AM »
I'd like to grow some bananas, a mango and a few other exotic fruits - kind of make one side of the house be a "jungle orchard".  Where is the best place in the Keys to buy fruit trees?
Thanks and I am really glad I found this forum!


Welcome! I have found that nurseries in the Keys are generally very overpriced, and have very little knowledge. Often they have no idea what they're growing, or may mislabel things. It's rare to find one that knows anything about what cultivar of a plant they have - generally the best they can do is "Banana," "Mango,"...  If you know Spanish you will do well to haggle with the nurseries all around Homestead (make absolutely sure to check out the Fruit & Spice Park, and also 'Robert Is Here' Fruit Stand!). Home Depot does not really cater to our climate, so they will sell a bunch of things that need a much colder climate than we have, or that will waste away the moment they hit our coral soil. [Also, be aware that Home Depot uses pesticides that get into the very cells of the plants that are known to kill honeybees, so even if you have an organic home and plant these plants and bees come to pollinate, they will die anyway.] Local nurseries and Home Depot will also sell plenty of plants that are invasive and very harmful to our fragile ecosystem here - so look up every species online before you buy to check for its invasive potential, so you don't harm the local environment. Native plants - even endangered ones - can be found in local nurseries as well as in Homestead and are very cheap, though, so a little research into that is a good thing, as it will help keep bees and a wide range of other living things (endangered species included) in your yard.

For a huge variety and the ability to ship directly to my house, I have bought a great deal of my trees from Top Tropicals, which is in FL so shipping does not take long or go through cold zones. They have mixed reviews here, you can research it, but for the most part they have a wide selection of rare and special plants and I have mostly had good luck with them. Wait for holidays when they have their sales though, because costs and shipping really add up fast! My experience has been that plants on clearance are cheap because they are nearly dead, so not worth the money they cost.

Outside of a few trees that you need to be full size or nearly mature from the beginning, I would recommend starting things from seed. You can buy seeds or seedling plants of tons of things on Amazon, as well as Etsy, Ebay, and on this forum. This keeps costs low and lets you experiment until you know what will work here and what is worth the effort to you. As I mentioned earlier, in this first year of growing I got hit with an onslaught of various pests and problems (one single plant that has a disease or pest can quickly spread it to your entire yard and wipe it out before you know what hit you!), and I do wish I had taken it more slowly to have more of a handle on care for each plant. I was in a rush for various reasons, and it's been exciting and in some cases it will mean I have mature fruiting trees that fill in my landscape much faster than if I had waited, but you should pick and choose your battles with the items that are most important to you first.

Aside from problems with the soil and water, rats, iguanas, and for you Key Deer, etc, you'll have to contend with our unusual climate. We are far drier than the rest of FL - actually the driest county in the state! - and we alternate between dryness that actually causes brush fires, to sometimes multiple feet of rain in a month (in one June in the 1960s there was a total 21ft of rain!)! It never freezes, but these other factors do limit what naturally does well here without a ton of water waste and endless work and setbacks. On the other hand, some things absolutely flourish here with no help, and I am continually surprised by the things that I've planted that have done well, versus the things that have died under the strain of pests and other factors. Sometimes it's just a matter of the individual plant, and I've found that in my yard, plants that grow from seed (again, often things you wouldn't expect) do much better than trying to transplant a seed. I guess this is because the seed started out used to the conditions of the soil and weather and so is just the kind of seed that will do well - sometimes I have an abundance of seeds from things and just give them a shot in the soil on their own, and the full trees of the same plant that I am giving tons of care and every advantage wither while the lonely seedling continues to grow. Of course, how well they will fruit remains to be seen. I await the time when we have a bad storm to see whether all of this work and money was for naught in the long run! Hopefully not. Since you're in a low flood zone, be aware of things like salt tolerance, flood (and drought) tolerance, and protection from wind. In most years, these ratings will be enough to save your plants. But of course we can't do much to prepare them for hurricane force winds and waves, outside of some careful planting techniques.

A few things I grow in pots/bags on my balcony and indoors, for that reason. I hope not to be completely wiped out in any one season. It is very easy to grow fruiting plants indoors here, since the sun is so strong - I have fruited watermelon, strawberries, peppers, and other plants indoors here.

Some plants that you may already know of but that fruit well here are:

Coconut
Banana
Mango
Mamey Sapote
Black Sapote
Passionfruit
Guava
Lemon
Lime
Calamondin (all of these citrus may have problems with the soil, but so far I have had no problems and have had plenty of fruit)
Papaya (be careful to plant non-GMO only), and be sure to pick them all as papaya are invasive if not)
Tamarind
Pineapple
Barbados Cherry
Surinam Cherry
Starfruit
Pygmy Date Palm
Feijoa
Dragonfruit

And with some extra help...
Guanabana
Pomegranate
Avocado
Muscadine grape

Invasive, grow only indoors:
Guava
Strawberry/Cattley Guava
Sapodilla

Good Fruiting Native Plants to consider:
Wild Coffee
Bahama Coffee
Beautyberry
Cocoplum
Seagrape

If you're interested in growing vegetables as well, you will do best with tropical vegetables which are better known in other countries. Few plants that are well-known in the US can handle the summer heat here - they wither and succumb to whitefly, etc.

A list of native plants in the Florida Keys can be found here:
http://monroe.ifas.ufl.edu/lawn/lawn_keysguide_sec4.shtml

Here is a Gardening Guide for the Florida Keys:
http://monroe.ifas.ufl.edu/lawn/lawn_keysguide.shtml

If you find any Australian Pine or Brazilian Pepper in your yard, please remove them as these are highly invasive and are rapidly destroying the fragile Florida Keys ecosystem.

Consider a rain catchment system if you're going to plant anything that cannot withstand the droughts here. It's best not to use any tap water at all, from an ecological and financial standpoint, as well as the health of the plants. Our fresh water is extremely limited in Florida, and in the Keys it must be piped in from very far away. You can get organic mosquito dunks on Amazon for pretty cheap to prevent the water from harboring mosquito eggs. Here is the Florida Keys Aqueduct Authority's guide on making a rain barrel:
http://www.fkaa.com/buildingrainbarrel.pdf

I realize this is a lot of information, but I wish I had had this info when I moved here a year and a half ago! It has been an extremely steep learning curve.

644
I use areca palms. They're easy to keep cutting back to exactly the amount of light you want, don't need much maintenance to stay alive, and then at some point the mangosteen outgrows them. If you're worried about sharing the space and nutrients once the mangosteen is mature, you can simply cut them back further or cut them down completely. I find it a lot cheaper and more attractive as a solution than building some kind of shade housing in the yard. They also provide some good wind protection in storms for the young tree.

645
Well, as luck would have it, my sweetheart has one single branch blooming, I wonder if it heard me threaten it a couple of weeks ago while I was looking it over :-) Anyway, now the vigil begins to watch for more blooming, and fruit set.

That's wonderful - congratulations! :)

646
The one at grimal Grove is in bloom in Big Pine Key

This is great to know! If it is possible to fruit in the Lower Keys, then it is possible to do so here in the Upper Keys! I have a sweetheart lychee that is still small, and maybe 8 or so seedlings from an unknown variety that I got at a local market that were DELICIOUS! So I'm not expecting any fruit this year, and maybe not next year either, but if it could happen someday that would be great. To my knowledge, there has not been a single freeze on record anywhere in the Keys, and even in the Upper Keys it rarely goes below 55. My intent was to try to mimic chill hours in various ways with the few plants I have that prefer some cold. Some plants are small in bags so I was going to try possibly putting them in the fridge or freezer temporarily, and with the larger in-ground ones like lychee I was going to try ice among other things. Haven't done much research yet into ways to mimic chill hours to know what I'll do.

I hope everyone will keep us updated about how their lychees do, and by what methods if any they encouraged fruiting in low-chill (or no-chill) environments. It certainly may be that not all varieties will work the same way in the same climate, but certainly fruiting in canal-front Coral Gables, and on Big Pine, gives me hope! I am lychee-obsessed so it was definitely worth a try...

647
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Guiana Plum (Drypetes lateriflora)?
« on: January 23, 2015, 09:37:06 AM »
Thanks for the reply - did you see it in bloom, or with fruit? I have seen that the fruit was supposed to be fuzzy red drupes (maybe like sort of a peach/plum cross), but when I search for images there are a lot of pictures of brown fruit. I'm not sure if these photos are incorrectly labeled, or if the original description is incorrect.

Would be interesting if I ever get fruit from a tree no one else here has ever had the opportunity to try - I could post photos and description of flavor. But that would likely be in a few years... given this lack of information, I certainly have not seen anything that states how old Guiana Plum needs to be before it fruits!

Anyone in the Caribbean or Central American region seen or tried it?

648
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Guiana Plum (Drypetes lateriflora)?
« on: January 22, 2015, 02:45:46 PM »
Just wondering if anyone knows anything about this plant, or has seen it as a mature tree? It is native to SFL (as well as some of the Caribbean and Central America), and I received one for free yesterday at a local event. I know that it can reach 31ft in this region, it is considered a threatened species, and it produces bright red fuzzy fruit from a greenish-white flower. I haven't found very much online about it, and the information I do find is in some cases conflicting (like one source says it is highly salt tolerant, and another says it has very low salt tolerance; one says full sun and one says light shade...).

Does anyone know if this fruit is edible? And even better, does anyone have a clue what it tastes like?

I found only this, as part of a thread on Eat The Weeds (which I've found to be a great site covering edible native plants in FL):

"...it is in Florida Ethnobotany by Dr. Daniel Austin, who taught botany 30 years in Miami, now retired. ... He reports that von Reis and Lipp in 1982 reported its fruit as edible. It was a publication of the New York Botanical Gardens. It is so rare I've never seen it."

That seems a little 4th-hand for my taste, to be sure the fruit won't kill me! :) The tree is just over 2ft tall at this point, and I figured I'd plant it as I have plenty of room (before it gets huge anyway - it's apparently a slow grower) and I like to put in as many natives as I can. This tree apparently supports some species of native and threatened butterflies.

So if anyone happens to know about this tree and its supposedly edible fruit, I'd love to hear about it!

649
The Keys actually get less rainfall than any other county in Florida (much to my dismay to have discovered). So I am planning to replace the lawn the previous owner installed with sand in some areas, and purslane in others. Purslane is edible and actually extremely healthy for you, needs no chemicals for management, and is extremely drought-resistant. It is easy to buy large quantities of seeds for very low prices. Sea Purslane is larger and is salt-resistant (although I don't find it nearly as pleasant eating as the regular purslane). The variety I am planning on using is Toucan Scarlet purslane (Portulaca Oleracea Toucan Scarlet Shades), which I already grow in a small quantity in a container. It does not grow very tall, has a pretty green color, and has beautiful reddish orange-and-yellow flowers that are close to a half inch in size. When spread over the ground, the entire yard becomes a sea of green and these beautiful red flowers - plus if the yard has no chemicals or pet waste on it, it is entirely edible, flowers and all! A no-maintenance yard, with beautiful color, and also useful - hard to get better than that!

650
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: TREES! in the Keys
« on: January 18, 2015, 07:56:40 PM »
Thanks for this info, I was concerned about the salt! Do you have any idea why it doesn't hurt salt-sensitive plants?

Yeah, I am taking time to think about how I want to approach the seaweed issue, since I do want the natural fertilizer but I don't want to make my yard stink such that it would bother my neighbors! I was thinking maybe just one bucket once every month or so, mixed with other compost and spread out pretty thin across the yard. It's great that it comes free, but I don't want my yard to become a seaweed landfill too fast and have the wind carry the stink everywhere. I'll probably wrap whatever container I use in my car in a plastic bag just for a little extra protection. I don't want it tipping over and spilling out everywhere by accident.

Also, it turns out I was wrong - I found flowers on my Mallika today after all! I hope I get to try at least one mango from each plant this year! I also have a Loquat with its first fruit, so really looking forward to that, as I've never tried them before! I was really unsure what would be capable of fruiting in the Keys, but I'm really pleased to see a number of plants seem to be having no difficulty. I also had a wild coffee that fruited this year, but the birds stole them before I got a chance to taste the berries.

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