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Messages - Ilya11

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1
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Eremolemon
« on: April 04, 2018, 01:10:20 PM »
Sebastien( Alias)  tested it in a pot and reported -14C as a limit:
Coachella eremoleon R-14°c maturité:oct-dec qualité: XXXX
For eremorange in the ground he reports a similiar limit:
Eremocitrus sinensis T R-15°c maturité: qualité: XXXXX

My grafted eremorange in pot culture in Paris region has occasional branch damage due to wet conditions in autumn.
No fruits up to now.

2
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Cold Hardry Grapefuit/Pommelos
« on: March 30, 2018, 02:38:25 PM »
DNA marker analysis identified four different types of Kunenbo.
It is Kunenbo-A that is ubiquitous parent of hardy Japanese citruses.

3
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Hybrid Nin-Kat-MandarinXPoncirus
« on: March 26, 2018, 01:34:08 PM »
Robert,
Actually 5* flowers even after  loosing all leaves. This winter we had only two nights of minus 9 but with violent winds up to 80 km/hour, also  periods with snow and abrupt changes of temperature. No damage on Ichangquat, but 5* lost leaves on North Eastern side of a tree.
Fruits of Ichangquat  are rather special, but I like them, they are not particularly soar, grapefruit like bitterness and if eaten fully ripe with a skin, the taste resembles fejoa with some pine note.

Alexander (Samodelkin), leaves on your PTxSunki look exactly like on my plant




4
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Hybrid Nin-Kat-MandarinXPoncirus
« on: March 26, 2018, 08:02:38 AM »
Yes, I got it from you under the name PTxSunki😊
Grafted on poncirus, it is very resistant,  not so on its own roots. It is now 2m tall,hope will flower soon. The leaves of the spring growth are narrow and fall in the autumn, while those of the second,summer flush are wider and keep green during the winter. Both are mostly monofoliate.

5
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: keraji mandarin
« on: March 21, 2018, 01:23:09 PM »
In the same DNA marker  paper it is shown that Kabuchi and Unzoki are hybrids of Kunenbo-A  and unknown citrus with cytoplasm coming from sweet orange, while Keraji is a back cross of Kabuchi to Kunenbo-A

6
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: keraji mandarin
« on: March 21, 2018, 05:12:17 AM »
In this paper of DNA analysis the spelling is kabuchi ,not kubachi

7
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: March 21, 2018, 05:06:13 AM »
I do have many hybrid seedlings of crosses between citrumelo ( 5*) with Miyagawa and two different clones of ichangensis.

8
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: keraji mandarin
« on: March 19, 2018, 09:29:51 AM »
Since original (USDA Florida) 6-7-2 is monoembryonic, its European seedlings  should be different from mother plant.
Contrary to the original description, my  "6-7-2" of B.Voss gives very small number of seeds (1 per ~10 fruits).
1/3 of them contain green embryos, the rest are white.

9
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: keraji mandarin
« on: March 18, 2018, 01:23:07 PM »
-9C at the end of February with a strong NE wind reaching 75km/h


10
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: keraji mandarin
« on: March 18, 2018, 10:06:55 AM »
The leaves look the same. When young the thorns were also present on small branches, now they are  mostly on the trunk.
My plant was from B.Voss, immature wood grafted on poncirus, first flowering was in 2008.

11
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: keraji mandarin
« on: March 18, 2018, 08:33:56 AM »
It is highly probable ;) that ichangquat from Eisenhut is the same that is sold by B.Voss by the name 6-7-2.
Mine 6-7-2 is a huge tree around 6 meters tall, never protected and never had any damage (planted in 2004).
It is flowering in several waves all summer long, fruits are ripening very quickly, in around 3-4 months. The fruit quality is variable, depends on weather and  degree of ripeness. It is best to be picked when easily detached from  the branch. 
A flavor is unique, some melange of pine with feijoa; not unpleasant, with small grapefruit-like bitterness.
Occasionally fruits are rather dry inside, but mostly the juice is present in sufficient quantity.
I like to eat them as such, but they also  can be used for marmalade.




Concerning Keraji, no protection, no damage this winter as well as the last one.

12
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Cara Cara vs Tarocco ?
« on: March 18, 2018, 04:42:27 AM »
I am far from Sicily, but my Tarocco (TDV variety) has a nice color already in January


13
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: March 16, 2018, 10:48:44 AM »
Robert,
I am not aware of any mapping of internal oil trait in poncirus. Certainly, it is not a priority for citrus biology projects both in academia and industry. On the contrary, the genetics of bitterness due to the presence of modified flavonones naringins and neohesperidins is quite well studied in citruses.
One can map the genes responsible for fruit oils by genotyping  the segregating population of normal PTxSwampLemon cross, a comparison between the two parent plants is not sufficient, there will be too many differences that have nothing to do with this trait.
I have plans to cross Poncirus+ that is apparently monoebryonic to SwampLemon  to see if the fruit quality can   be further improved.   

14
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Pavlovsky lemon
« on: March 15, 2018, 04:59:30 AM »
It is  a very old variety, there exist several clones differing in fruit quality and tolerance to in house conditions under very dim winter light in Pavlovo  (56° N).

15
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: March 14, 2018, 05:17:45 PM »
Robert,
Swamp Lemon flowers have no smell, I have not yet seen the flowers of Poncirus+ clone, hope it will flower this spring.
Hope that the absence of oils is a simple hereditary trait that will be transmitted in crosses.

16
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: March 14, 2018, 01:20:03 PM »
Ilya.  How many of the citrumelo 5* x  Flying Dragon hybrid seedlings do you have?  I ask because I plan backcrosses of various 3/4 P.t. 1/4 citrus, and I'd like to know how much segregation for cold tolerance there is in the backcross 1 generation.  I will be following your results with great interest.
Last spring I pollinated with FD 20 castrated flowers of 5*, got 6 fruits in autumn, totally with 45 seeds.
It gave 43 seedlings; 12 of them are clear hybrids.

17
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: March 10, 2018, 01:58:02 PM »
This is the first 3/4 P. trifoliata, 1/4 citrus I've heard of.  Any idea of how hardy it will be?  I know, or believe, that the citromelo, being a hybrid will be segregating, so there could be great variation in such hybrids.  I'm willing to go to 7/8 P. trifoliata, 1/8 citrus, but I hope I don't have to.
The seedlings currently  are growing under the lamps, the largest is ~20 cm high, they will go in ground in May. Citrumelo 5* is a chance seedling of Swingle citrumelo, most probably from self pollination, it is "nearly edible", more hardy than Swingle and it gives a fair amount of zygotic seedlings.   The hybrids I got now ( with FD) are indeed very heterogeneous , some are pretty strong but most are dwarfs.

Also 2 other question.
Do you know of other 3/4 P. t., 1/4 citrus?
Did you use a P.t. with their usual flavor or one of the mutants with better flavor?
B.Voss in his book on hardy citrus reproduces from "Citrus growing in Florida" book by L.K.Jackson  a scheme where a backcross of citrange by poncirus is named cicitrange, so most probably such hybrids were already made.
 I  have plans to use other strains of poncirus, but it seems it is more difficult than to cross 5* with regular citrus.

18
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: March 10, 2018, 03:56:11 AM »
Depending on weather conditions there is some overlap between poncirus and its hybrids  flowering. Otherwise, pollen can be dried and stored up to one year at -20C in containers with  a small bag of silica gel.
Last year I succeeded in getting citrumelo 5* x  Flying Dragon hybrid seedlings, but it was after several years of failures.

19
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Cara Cara vs Tarocco ?
« on: March 09, 2018, 04:19:57 AM »
What is amazing is that here in Europe, Tarocco from Italy is the best orange I ever tasted.
Much better than Moro or Sanguinelli. May be its variety in US is different, in Italy they have several dozens of  clones with different degree of color and time of maturity.

20
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Flowers of Poncirus
« on: March 07, 2018, 04:55:47 AM »
No, usually it does not have any smell, but when days are hot and in a full flower, you can percept a very  faint perfume.
Nothing to have with citrus fragrance,   resembling more an old candy box  ;D

21
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Trifoliate seedlings - different root systems
« on: February 24, 2018, 06:26:11 PM »
Yes,  a long taproot makes a lot of difference when grown in the open ground in  profound soils. It serves as a link between underground that is kept at constant temperature and a stem that is exposed to the winter chilling.

22
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Accuracy of cold hardiness temperatures?
« on: February 24, 2018, 06:20:19 PM »
For the moment nobody knows precisely the origin of poncirus.
 In the recent article you mentioned they used statistical methods to infer the relations between genomes. They made it both for the main part  of genome residing in cell nucleus and coming from both parents as well as cytoplasmic organelles like mitochondria and chloroplasts that mostly are inherited from the seed parent.
Statistics found some discrepancy between these two analysis  in the position of poncirus relative to other citruses.That is why they made a hypothesis that poncirus comes from the very old hybridization between two only distantly related plants. That happened long time ago and in the nuclear part of the genome the parts coming from these ancient parents were scrambled in such a way that you can not distinguish their precise origin. The situation is different for cytoplasmic part that is inherited only from one parent.

23
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Accuracy of cold hardiness temperatures?
« on: February 23, 2018, 04:00:46 PM »
Sure, but please read the attached articles.

24
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Accuracy of cold hardiness temperatures?
« on: February 23, 2018, 10:24:54 AM »
Robert,
It really depends on the variety, some years ago I tried to evaluate the number of monoemryonic germinations in fruits of two ponciruses
Old plant from Jardin des Plantes de Paris



My poncirus (from B.Voss)
You

Some more reading on zygotic seedlings in poncirus
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jsbbs1951/36/2/36_2_138/_pdf
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jjshs/74/3/74_3_189/_pdf
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jjshs1925/63/1/63_1_23/_pdf/-char/en

25
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Hybrid Seedling Cotyledons
« on: February 21, 2018, 02:56:03 PM »



In Mozilla: Go to your flickr link,
put mouse on the image and click with the  left  knob,
than with right knob choose Examine this element option,
you will see below among others a following line ( here for your  first  image):

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click on image insertion tag   of this board ( first icon of the second row  above) and insert the following address between the brackets:
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