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Messages - Ilya11

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151
Cold Hardy Citrus / 17-11 pummelo x citrumelo hybride
« on: May 01, 2017, 04:12:07 AM »
Do we know what happened to this interesting hybrid?
I has not be able to find any further information on it.
In  leaf freeze resistance tests it was shown to have a similiar or even better hardiness than US119.

http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/33/4/744.full.pdf

152
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: April 27, 2017, 01:25:52 PM »
Of course, you need a large population of nucellar seedlings to produce better varieties.
But somatic mutations are not particularly rare.  Out of 200 nucellar seedlings  of Miyagawa-wase two new varieties: 'Okitsu-Wase' and 'Miho-Wase were selected in Japan.
http://fshs.org/proceedings-o/1964-vol-77/79-83%20(NISHIURA).pdf
also

153
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: April 26, 2017, 03:34:31 PM »
But I remember that Ilya posted at old forum article, that unshiu mandarins do not hybridize and cross pollination with poncirus is only used to obtain seeds to get nucellar seedlings, or mutants. So it is possible that plant mentioned above is chimera, or mutant.
It is not a case, pollination with foreign pollen is used to enhance seed  formation in satsuma.
Poncirus is used because  its hybrids with satsuma having three leaflets are easily distinguished from   nucellar seedlings that are screened for for new traits emerging through natural somatic mutagenesis.

154
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: April 22, 2017, 11:46:44 AM »
Radoslav,
I got my plant from B.Voss in 2004 and it looks exactly like a plant that has  Snek ( willow like with slim contorted  twigs).   

155
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: April 22, 2017, 03:38:36 AM »
Thank you Sylvain,
Your tree is huge and magnificent.
From what you presented it is clear it is a chimera between poncirus and pure satsuma.
Where you did got the budwood from?

156
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: April 21, 2017, 08:16:28 AM »
Yes, I have three seedlings growing.
Is it possible to see them, please?

157
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: April 20, 2017, 09:10:31 AM »
Sylvain,
Have you been able to germinate its seeds?

158
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: April 18, 2017, 07:48:01 AM »
According to Snek, there are three hybrids/chimeras known in former Czechoslovakia.
One is hybrid Unshiu x Poncirus selected by professor Pospisil in seventies, the plant is still in greenhouse of university in Prague.
Radoslav,
Have you seen the recent photos of this surviving plant?
For me the old black and white picture of it looks very similiar to what I have in the garden.
On other hand, the picture from Riverside is also similiar, although their plant is described as chimera from Abkhazia.

159
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: April 18, 2017, 04:21:25 AM »
It is believed for a long time to be a chimera, but its origin is very obscure.
It is either originated in Abkhazia region of the USSR or  in  Prague, Czechoslovakia.
In USSR several attempts were made to produce poncirus/citrus chimera by the induction  and subsequent regeneration of massive callus at the grafting point.
By this, they believed to produce  plants containing cells from two species (chimeras). Most of such plants are unstable, giving branches of pure species, but occasionally a stable, so called periclinal chimera can be produced.
In the recent study   Czech scientists  isolated the cell nuclei from this plant, stained their genetic material (DNA) by fluorescent die and determined the intensity of fluorescence signal from individual nuclei. Since the genome of different citruses is slightly different in size, they hopped to see two peaks of fluorescent intensity if it is satsuma/poncirus chimera.
They observed only one, so it is either not a chimera  but a hybrid or   chimera  between poncirus  with some hybrid having approximately the  same  genome size as poncirus.
I guess only molecular markers can definitely  resolve the origin of this very strange plant.

160
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: April 17, 2017, 01:06:32 PM »
It could be this variety in UCR collection:
http://www.citrusvariety.ucr.edu/citrus/citrondarin.html


161
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: April 16, 2017, 04:10:30 PM »
Millet,
Its origin is not yet clear. Leaves are  a mixture of bi- tri- or monofoliates.
The fruits are almost satsuma like, no poncirus smell or taste.
There is    suspicion that it is a chimera between poncirus and satsuma, but strangely enough even stems and leaves do not have odor or taste of poncirus.
Scientists in Brno show that the nuclei from its cells have homogeneous DNA content, that does not definitely  proves an absence of chimerism , but points more to the hybrid origin of this citrus.
On the other hand, Roberto from Wien observed an emergence of  poncirus like branch   distantly  from   grafting point.
It could be some second generation poncirus-satsuma hybrid with unstable genome, but no definite proof for this exists for the moment.

162
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: April 16, 2017, 02:32:37 PM »
You have very nice specimen. I have this Citsuma in the ground since 2004, but it is grafted on very weak rootstock and has not grown much. Never damaged, but flowering is very sporadic and fruits rapidly abort.


Last year I regrafted it on high stem of very strong poncirus, hope it will finally give some fruits.
Sylvain in Dordogne have very nice plant, almost 2 meters high , producing sweet fruits of very good quality.

163
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The best tasting orange for coolder climate?
« on: April 10, 2017, 05:00:37 PM »
Thank you, very nice looking fruit.
Hope your plant will survive, at least one branch seems not much affected.

164
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The best tasting orange for coolder climate?
« on: April 10, 2017, 03:56:08 AM »
Florian,
Very interesting, I am going to graft it next week
The fruit was on the inground plant? Is it early ripening variety?

165
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichangquat other than 6-7-2
« on: April 04, 2017, 01:11:55 PM »
Yes, small plants do have very dangerous long thorns, but on fruiting branches they are either small or do not exist at all.

166
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichangquat other than 6-7-2
« on: March 24, 2017, 03:53:10 AM »
I read somewhere that many of their plants were from B.Voss.
Czech on-line nursery http://www.rakytnik.com/index.php/rostliny/citrusy/mrazuvzdorne-druhy-a-hybridy/385-c-ichangensis-fortunella-ichangquat has 6-7-2.

167
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichangquat other than 6-7-2
« on: March 23, 2017, 03:36:39 PM »
Where did you get it from?
Original 6-7-2 is monoebryonic, so ichangquat from B.Voss known by this name in Europe is  F2 seedling different from mother plant. Theoretically your plant could be another seedling of 6-7-2 from USA.

168
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichang Papeda search.
« on: March 16, 2017, 03:39:38 AM »
Here in Europe we have  a clone of ichangensis - IVIA , that is quite edible.

169
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichang Papeda search.
« on: March 09, 2017, 03:49:12 PM »
I think the reason why it is not being used as rootstock is the variability of its seedlings,  they are zygotic and do not reproduce faithfully the mother plant.

170
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichang Papeda search.
« on: March 08, 2017, 03:54:47 AM »
I have it in the ground, it is grafted on poncirus.
Last year I planted its seedlings in the ground, they are growing quite well, survived -9C and  10 days of frozen ground.

171
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Shiranui Mandarin Available
« on: March 06, 2017, 06:09:54 PM »

172
I found this winter that it is more resistant than Thomasville. We had 10 days extreme cold. No snow and soil was frozen to 15 cm, minimum one night of -9.2C (15F).




Thomasville leaves and small twigs were frozen:


but Yuzu show no damage at all:


No protection,  both are planted in comparable positions.

173
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Bloomsweet
« on: March 06, 2017, 04:43:10 AM »
Selkirk,
Fruits of your Bloomsweet look more  like mine:



http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=18992.25

Do you have many seeds inside?

174
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Shiranui Mandarin Available
« on: March 04, 2017, 08:57:45 AM »
For the people that started Shiranui from seeds:



Chance seedling of Decopon started 15 years ago, it tastes more like Buntan pomelo!
http://www.fruttama.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=783

175
Citrus General Discussion / Re: South Koreans & Grapefruit
« on: March 02, 2017, 04:05:49 AM »
Recently in France   a mix of rosé wine with grapefruit juice become rather popular.


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