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Messages - Mango Stein

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I am interested to know what the changes are to plinia and myrciaria, although I suspect it is the following:
all traditional trunk-fruiting jaboticabas have been classified 'plinia' while the so-called false jaboticabas (like blue grape/blue jabo, cabelluda/yellow jabo, camu camu, cambui) have been classified 'myrciaria' as they fruit more on the stem and are genetically separate enough. There might be some exceptions like cambuca (plinia edulis).

I'm also thinking that Paulista and Sabara are two varieties of plinia cauliflora, not plinia jaboticaba as some are putting for Sabara. And if my memory serves me correctly, white jabo (aureana) is actually a variety of plinia phitrantha.

Have they put a tentative ID on the 'Grimal' yet?

Has Luc written anywhere what the mature size is of his garcinia sp. is?

Last year I got 29ºF or -1.7ºC so mangosteen options are very limited.


Also consider this poster is the one who wants to tell peopke what names they should use when identifying fruit because of what it feels.

Guilty as charged. I am a dangerous opinion-haver who is recklessly communicating ideas in order to influence the positions of others.

Also, if you want to dehumanize me to the level of an "it" then the clause "one who wants" really should be "one that wants". But I understand that the lingua franca in Florida is now Espanol so I won't be too hard on you.

Oh look, 28 people have now voted in the poll and someone even PM'd me suggesting I add pulasan and lansium spp. to the list. You'd better get to work and castigate them for reinforcing such decadent wastefulness.

The guy with 5920 posts tells me I'm the one wasting space, lol.

Hey bsbullie, I'm guessing you voted New World with prickly pear lodged up your backside being the clincher.

Fruitlovers, papaya is on the list.

Barath, avocado I did not include because this is a list of culinary fruits. Avocado is a fruit only from a botanical point of view (along with tomatoes, cucumbers, nuts, etc) but culinary-wise I think it is a vegetable. Perhaps olive and quince shouldn't be on the list either.

I'm going to leave the poll open indefinitely. Surprising to see how evenly split.

I voted Old World although would have switched if there was a South American version of lychee or jakfruit.

Although this forum is disproportionately from the Americas.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Myrciaria cuspidata or what?
« on: February 07, 2016, 12:54:37 AM »
lol..there's two L, in cabelluda

makes a big difference if you leave one out!

I think I was inspired by the spelling on your website, ::) also you spell cherry of the rio grande with one 'r'!

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Myrciaria cuspidata or what?
« on: February 05, 2016, 08:40:51 AM »
Hey Cassio,
As a speaker of Portuguese can you tell me what all this is about:
I got from Google Translate that she is "Woman fruit bread". I think the host says 'jabuticaba' at the start.
Let's just say the Liberal Agenda has reached Brazil too...

I figure that someone might have come across a chance seedling that is dwarfed (2m or 6'7" max). In spite of what the general description is, guayabillas get to be 5m according to some forum members.

New World (North and South America): E.g. cherimoya, rollinia, jaboticaba, sapodilla, mamey sapote, canistel, green sapote, passiflora, pawpaw, guava, grumichama, cherry rio grande, pitomba, rainforest plum, pitanga, pitangatuba/pitangola/starcherry, abiu, annona, araza/araca boi, papaya, babaco, black sapote, white sapote, pineapple, strawberry, achacha, chupa-chupa, bunchosia/peanut butter tree, panama berry/jamaica cherry, acerola, opuntia/prickly pears, pitaya/dragonfruit, feijoa, American persimmon, inga/ice cream bean, star apple, monstera, ugni, tamarillo and muscadine.

Old World (Asia, Europe, Africa): Pretty much everything else, e.g. banana, mango, apple, peach, plum, cherry, grape, fig, pomegranate, mulberry, lychee, longan, rambutan, pulasan, lansium spp., carambola/starfruit, watermelon, durian, breadfruit, jakfruit, chempadek, marang, mangosteen, citrus, kiwifruit, jujube, olive, date, Japanese persimmon, pear, apricot, quince, muskmelon, loquat, salak and santol.

*Oceania and Antarctica are not included in either (sorry fans of finger lime, Davidson's Plum and midyim). Some genuses are asymmetrically common to both worlds, like coconuts, rubus, blueberry, ribes, mulberry, haskap/honeysuckle.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Myrciaria cuspidata or what?
« on: February 04, 2016, 10:07:56 PM »
A man in a blue dress isn't quite as extreme as the result you get when typing in 'big cabeluda'. I learned the hard way.

Oscar, have you seen that guy in a blue dress that comes up when you google search the word "Plinia" ?  (I know you know what I'm talking about!  :D )

haha, and every once in a while, when I search for videos of jaboticaba, i get a video of a Brazliian exotic dancer who has stage name is "jaboticaba" not even kidding...this problem used to be more prevalent, but now there are actual videos of jaboticaba.

(and searching for Eugenia, the autotype fills in the word for you as Eugenics!)

what a crazy world we live in today! HAHA!

Miguel...sorry I just realize how I defaced your thread...I will shut up now...sorry for the unsightly derail!

RarePalmSeeds are selling seeds of a cultivar of Cabelluda that they say has "particularly large fruits". I'm hoping this translates to greater pulp ratio.

I think I read somewhere that the germination rate is low from this German company. Photo on FruitLovers catalogue looks like it has such a big seed and so little pulp.

There is nothing too official about a common name. It's exactly vendors like eBay that determine what commercial name will win out.

My criticism about selloi not having anything to do with a cherry is valid. Even the size is significantly bigger.

All the things you list do have some logical connection (although I generally prefer unique names). Most unifloras are red but in any case I certainly prefer the name pitanga over Suriname cherry (or Brazil cherry as they are called in Australia). With the name grumichama at least it is smooth and round and approximately cherry sized and many european cherry cultivars can be yellow and black. But again let this fruit stand on its own name, only babies need to relate it to a more familiar fruit.

Look, I can handle the name pitangatuba, I just think pitangola is better. But 'starcherry' is the worst of the three. It's basically a second hand inherited metaphor because pitanga is sometimes called a kind of cherry. For those that want to commercialize this, maybe do a market test using different names in different states - you'll soon find out what works best.

Hi Oscar.

The eBay seller 'Polynesian Produce Stand' or '7Heads' who is based in Haleiwa mentions pitangola as a nickname.

Govardhan Gardens also mentions pitangola and he is in Puerto Rico.

Pitangão is another term in Portuguese I believe although that is very similar to pitanga.

It's good that 'selloi' is now the dominant scientific name used but I'm still not sure whether the common name 'pitangatuba' will work with the mainstream.

In South America and Hawai'i it is apparently also called 'pitangola' which is a name I like better. For one, it is a syllable less and rolls off the tongue, but it also has the nice reference to carambola. I wonder whether the natives also used this name or it is a recent adaption.

I'm not bashing the name starcherry, I just think it isn't specific enough and is kind of corrupted. I mean pitanga is called Suriname cherry but at least it is red. Selloi is neither round like a cherry nor does it have the color of one. A totally new name like 'selloi berry' might also work with foodies, hipsters, yuppies etc. but I would go with pitangola.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Eugenia mattosii
« on: February 02, 2016, 05:39:08 AM »
Oscar, would you mind linking to Luc's list of top eugenias?

Thanks to the anonymous poster who sent me a link.
The most cold tolerant in the study were: Yuanhong, Chenzi and Wuye.
Next came Nuomici, Huaizhi, Feizixiao, Midingxiang, Guiwei (Kwai May Pink/Red), and Sanyuehong.

There is one other article I'd like to get a snippet of information from, so if anyone has access to the journal please PM me.

This is a translation from Helton's website.

Features: small small tree 3-5 m tall, with stems divided into several branches from the base, which arise branches that are declined and forked forming globular canopy from the ground. The trunk is crooked measuring 10 cm to 20 cm in diameter; with thin bark brown brownish color with white spots. The leaves are simple, opposite, in the same plane inserted under stalk (stem or support) short, dense and pubérulo (covered by the short and reddish), measuring 2 to 4 mm long. The leaf blade is lanceolate (lance-shaped), cartácea (with cardboard texture), with obtuse base (rounded) and acuminate apex (with long leg), measuring 1.8 to 6.6 cm long and 0.6 1.6 cm wide. This species can be easily identified by observing distant second marginal ribbed edge. The flowers appear in the leaf axils and at the apex of the branches under the canopy, are sessile (devoid of stalk) and clustered number 5-7 flowers. The cup (outer shell) is formed by alabaster (a lifting vessel) 3 to 4 mm height and 4 triangular lobes greenish 2 to 3 mm in length, arranged in a cross and make the turn of the sepals. The corolla (internal enclosure) consists of 5 lotions, rounded and tiny petals falling soon after anthesis flower. The fruit is a globose berry 2 to 3 cm in diameter, having a form of a tire with course and fine yellow when ripe peel involving 1 or 2 seeds in a too sweet and tasty jelly-like pulp.
Tips for cultivation: moderate growth Plant enjoying any type of soil with good natural fertility and rapid drainage. Appreciates humid tropical to subtropical humid with average temperature 12-35 degrees, with large variations that can reach the maximum of 38 degrees in summer and minimum of up to - 3 degrees and supporting some frost. As for the annual rains rain gauge index ranges 1200-2700 mm annually. It can be grown from sea level to 1,350 meters above sea level; both river banks in shady locations where it produces abundantly. The ideal pH of the soil should be between 5.0 to 6.5, and good harvests occur when the humidity is around 70% and is constant.
Seedlings: Seeds are round, recalcitrant (lose germination if dried) and should be planted in a maximum of 20 days after harvest. It can be planted in the substrate seeding with compound 1 part sand, 2 parts of red soil and 1 part of well cured manure. Germination occurs in 60 to 150 days and seedling growth is slow both in the shade and in full sun. The transplant is done when sowing the seedlings reach 10 cm, at which should be shaded in place for about 1 month and was generously irrigated. The fruiting plant starts 4 to 5 years or up to 2 years when grown in pots with 30 cm wide and 40 cm height containing the same substrate mentioned above.
Planting: I recommend that be planted in shaded spot in a spaced 5 x 5 or shade, which produces larger and tastier fruits. Open pits with at least 2 months before planting, they should be 50 cm in three dimensions and should be mixing 30% of clay sand + 7 blades of organic matter to 30 cm of earth from the pit surface; mixing together lime + 500 g and 1 kg of wood ashes. The best planting time is from October to November, should irrigate 10 l of water after planting and every 15 days if no rain.
Cultivating: The plant grows slowly and does not require special care, but should cover the surface with cut grass and eliminate any weed that can choke the plant. If planted in full sun, I recommend doing a cover with a shading to cut direct sunlight in the first year after planting. The pruning is done in late winter to plant training eliminating branches and buds of the base and any excess branches that are born facing the inside of the canopy. Fertilize with 4 kg of organic compost made ​​of tanned chicken manure and 30 grams of NPK 10-10-10. Distribute the nutrients to 5 cm to 20 cm on the surface of the stem at the beginning of October.
Uses: Fruits in the months from October to December. The fruits are delicious to be consumed in-kind and can leveraged to make juices, pastries and ice cream. The tree is ornamental, flowers are honey and is an ideal species for urban greening of streets, squares and parks. It is a rare species and needs to be cultivated to be preserved.


I'd be fascinated to know the findings of this Chinese study of lychees.

You have to be a member of the International Society for Horticultural Science or else articles cost $23 which I think is a rort...

Authors:     W.Q. She, X.H. Liu
Keywords:     Litchi chinensis, leaf cell tissue ratio, cold tolerance
DOI:     10.17660/ActaHortic.2010.863.39
The leaf cell structure and several physiological characteristics of 14 litchi (Litchi chinensis) cultivars were analyzed in this paper. The result showed that the cultivar with large leaf cell tissue ratio had strong cold resistance, reversely the cold resistance of cultivar with low leaf cell tissue ration was weak, therefore leaf cell tissue ratio may be taken as an index to detect cold tolerance of litchi; the contents of free proline, soluble sugar, and soluble protein, and the activity of superoxide dismutase (SOD) that were positively correlated with the leaf cell tissue ratio, can reflect differences in cold tolerance among various litchi cultivars, therefore, they could effectively be used as methods to determine the cold resistance of cultivars.

I'm searching for someone who has this currently growing and can report its size and age.

Depending on the size and hardiness I might want to buy seeds when it is in season.

Floridians you can PM details of the guy who has them if he is not on this forum. Thanks

Adam, am I right that glazioviana, guaquiea and strigipipes all taste very similar and that they would cross-pollinate?

Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: Wanted: Miracle fruit tree
« on: January 26, 2016, 12:04:29 AM »
I have read that miracle fruit has strong roots.

Does this mean invasive. Is it safe to be near a house? (Needs to be there for frost protection)

A lot of people don't like glazioviana, so I assumed that this couldn't be worse than that. But all three I imagine are similar in taste.

In fact I think you only need one of each species and there would be adequate cross-pollination among them.

It seems to me that Myrciaria guaquiea  is superior to glazioviana in just about every way. Hardiness, flesh-seed ratio, precociousness.

If they are similar, then why should I bother with a glazioviana? Strigipipes is possibly in the same boat here.

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