Fixed the thumbnail links so you can see larger photos.

Yes snafu, the stems on the thinner branches are quite rectangular in cross section, so it may be P. acutangulum, but I was told that the fruit was quite sweet.

Richard

Quote from: Rtreid on July 25, 2012, 01:11:17 AM

Quote from: fruitlovers on July 25, 2012, 12:27:48 AM

Richard, annonas have been eaten by humans for thousands of years without any ill effects. How long has imidacloprid been around? You can count the years on your hands. Look at the track record of pesticides considered by scientist to be "safe" in the past. So many believed safe and then removed from the market. Why is that?

Oscar,
This is exactly my point. In the case of annonas, they have been consumed for thousands of years and when someone developed a Parkinsonian syndrome people simply said "that's life."  Until some one studied it there was no thought that it could be due to consuming soursop products.  Pesticides (and other man made compounds) are found to have negative attributes because they have been studied.  We live in a world of natural toxins and our bodies have evolved to deal with them (do you know how much methanol is in your body right now?). After all, the most toxic substances known to man are all natural products.


Let me restate, I firmly believe that we all need to minimize our use of pesticides and herbicides, both natural and man made.  They are not good for either the enviornment or us. Ideally, we need to keep our plants well fed and healthy and allow them to defend themselves naturally.  Unfortunately sometimes, especially when young, they may need a little help.  But to hear people make blanket statements that natural is good and man made is bad is just foolish (I am not attempting to imply that this is your opinion).


Richard

Richard, did you actually read this study? It never established a causal relationship between eating annonas and Parkinson's disease. The study was an experiment on mice. They were injected with high doses of synthesized annonacins. Not by being fed fruits. They were given very high doses of annonacin created in the lab, hundreds of times of the equivalent amount you would find naturally in a fruit. This study really had nothing to do with eating annonas, or even with soursops. It was a very flawed study and was not even accepted by the scientific community. The conclusions people drew from it after not reading the study were even more flawed. Also there is no proof at all that cultures that eat a lot of annonas have higher incidence of Parkingson's disease (or any other disease). For example, the same areas that ate cherimoyas in the past, high Andes, continue to do so to this day. But there is no Parkinson's there. If you look at incidence of Parkinson's disease the highest is in agricultural communities were a whole lot of pesticides, herbidicies, fungicides are used. It's very prevalent in small midwest towns in farmers that spray their crops regularly with chemicals. "The world's highest prevalence of Parkinson's Disease of any region is in Nebraska, U.S.A. with 329.3 people per 100,000 population.":

An interesting article about what communites have high prevalence of
Parkinsons:
http://viartis.net/parkinsons.disease/prevalence.htm

Substances known to cause Parkinson's:
http://www.viartis.net/parkinsons.disease/toxic.causes.htm

Oscar,

This is getting way off topic, and Karen did a great job of summarizing the Annonacin topic, but I need to make two more points.  First, no one said all of the annonas cause an atypical Parkinsonian syndrome, although they all have some level of the annonacins.  Second, yes I read the study(s), as there are multiple articles in print that address this issue.  They are all very high quality research papers published in respected journals that, when taken as a whole, build a very strong case that the consumption of annonacins from soursop  leads to the development of a Parkinsonian like condition.  This work has not only been accepted by the scientific community, it has been embraced and expanded upon by numerous research groups around the world.  If you  doubt my ability to make such a statement, please look at this link http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Reid%20RT 

Richard, annonas have been eaten by humans for thousands of years without any ill effects. How long has imidacloprid been around? You can count the years on your hands. Look at the track record of pesticides considered by scientist to be "safe" in the past. So many believed safe and then removed from the market. Why is that?

Oscar,
This is exactly my point. In the case of annonas, they have been consumed for thousands of years and when someone developed a Parkinsonian syndrome people simply said "that's life."  Until some one studied it there was no thought that it could be due to consuming soursop products.  Pesticides (and other man made compounds) are found to have negative attributes because they have been studied.  We live in a world of natural toxins and our bodies have evolved to deal with them (do you know how much methanol is in your body right now?). After all, the most toxic substances known to man are all natural products.


Let me restate, I firmly believe that we all need to minimize our use of pesticides and herbicides, both natural and man made.  They are not good for either the enviornment or us. Ideally, we need to keep our plants well fed and healthy and allow them to defend themselves naturally.  Unfortunately sometimes, especially when young, they may need a little help.  But to hear people make blanket statements that natural is good and man made is bad is just foolish (I am not attempting to imply that this is your opinion).


Richard

Thanks everyone for the information.  I would have guessed that they are all  the same plant being sold under multiple names, based on photos that I have seen. But without seeing the actual plants there is no way to be sure of the truth.


Oscar, I need to look into these books by Lorenzi.  I have his book on Brazilian fruits (or more precisely fruits grown in Brazil), and frankly was a bit disappointed  by the fact that a large percentage of the plants described were introduced species.  Don't misunderstand, it is a great reference but I was hoping that it would cover only the native plants.
Richard

Very cool!

Thanks for the video, but I was more concerned with whether or not there might be any untoward side effects or reasons not to do this.  Like lime-sulfur sprays and apricots, every once and a while I run into trees and specific treatments that do not play nicely together.  I just want to make sure that this in not one of those times.

Richard

Congratulations on the grafts!  It looks great so far.

Richard

Richard,

I picked up similar looking mangoes from a market in Little Saigon, was excellent tasting. The mangoes I ate had seeds in them.

Null, 
Did they have seeds or just a flat, empty endocarp? I would love to get some seeds to see if they grow true.

I picked up a few of these at the farmer's market today.  It is a tiny fruit, looks and tastes like a mango with no fiber and has an no seed in the endocarp.  A very delicious mango/fruit what ever it is. Does anyone have any information on it's identity?


Thanks,
Richard

Can they carry a coconut?

Also my favorite color happens to be that which is the color of the fruit I am eating at any particular time.

how do u know so much about swallows?!

He can't be the King, that title is taken .


Richard

I would concur that it is normal.  The Eureka lemon  I used to have (before I moved)  would drop lots of fruit.  It always set much more that it could bear and would drop most of the initial set.  The only difference with my experience is that the largest fruit that would self thin from my tree were the size of the smaller ones that your tree seems to be dropping.

I always liked that about the lemon, as opposed to my Navel orange where I had to strip off 75% of the young fruit every spring!

Richard

Is this just today, or will it be going on tomorrow as well.  I have to go to LA tomorrow anyway, so this might be worth the stop.

Richard