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Messages - joe_OC

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26
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Plant Naming Convention Suggestion
« on: September 21, 2020, 11:25:34 PM »
The name Beach cambuca completely dominates in the English speaking world because whoever the first person was went with that name and then everyone copied him. So there's the answer to your popularity contest. You will find the name Beach cabeludinha (Cabulinha da praia) somewhat used in Brazil (http://www.colecionandofrutas.com.br/myrciariastrigipes.htm) though it takes a back seat to cambuca da praia. Old habits die hard. It must date back to a time when really few Myrtles were known about.

I highly doubt that there are two cultivars of "Branca" jaboticaba. Someone must have shortened "Branca vinho". Ask Adhemar Gomes in Casa Branca (whoops there's another Branca). A mistake was likely made outside of Brazil. You are right to notice that P. aureana and P. phitrantha are considered the same species by official taxonomy.


I doubt it as well, but there are at least two plants being called by that name by growers. 

27
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Plant Naming Convention Suggestion
« on: September 21, 2020, 10:41:12 PM »
This forum is not a professional society.  I like binomials, and I have used binomials too much in the past. I often found that they are unwelcome, and result in less communication, when one is dealing with the general public, as is very much the case with half or more of the readership here.

Societies are NOT professional.  Just people who have passion for certain plants.  I don't find using binomials being elitist or snobby or anything like that at all. 

28
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Plant Naming Convention Suggestion
« on: September 21, 2020, 04:56:54 PM »
Yes but probably not species and try to find either in the wild.

That's not the point...It's great that growers are hybridizing and making new cultivars.  BUT with scientific naming and cultivar, everyone will know what exact plant they are talking about. 

29
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Plant Naming Convention Suggestion
« on: September 21, 2020, 04:43:30 PM »
Which cultivar names are used for two cultivars of different species in the same genus? Usually it's the same cultivar with disagreements on what species it is, e.g. Eugenia calycina 'Nelita' vs Eugenia involucrata 'Nelita', Dream Annona vs Dream Atemoya, Plinia jaboticaba 'Sabara' vs Plinia cauliflora 'Sabara'.

Plinia aureana and Plinai phitrantha both have plants using the name 'Branca'.  This is not a case where there is disagreement regarding species.  These are TWO completely different plants. 

30
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Plant Naming Convention Suggestion
« on: September 21, 2020, 03:18:05 PM »
It looks like the Forum Admins made it a requirement for scientific names in the "Tropical Vegetables and Other Edibles" room, but not the other rooms.   

31
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Plant Naming Convention Suggestion
« on: September 21, 2020, 02:12:45 PM »
Joe_OC, you seem a little bit inexperienced to be suggesting something like this. We use a mix of both systems, it depends on what is in question. The first problem is that scientists reclassifying species is an ongoing process. Common names on the other hand are more stable. Secondly, a lot of things are unidentified. You would have a lot of different "Garcinia sp." and "Plinia sp." to disambiguate. Thirdly, as has been mentioned here, there are plenty of hybrids that don't always have a neat new binomial, especially when they can be F2 and F3 hybrids. I have asked botanists for the binomial of boysenberry and never gotten a consistent answer. Citrus and dragonfruit are quite messy, and you can't just use the genus name. Fourthly, there are a lot of repeated species names used in many genera. Take names like hispida, cuspidata, macrophylla, chinensis, indica, armeniaca. Saying the full binomial takes more syllables than is practical.

Think of it this way, you are never going to call a grape Vitis vinifera, or a peach Prunus persica. Once rarer things become a bit more established, the common name naturally takes over. Having two systems is more of a help than a hindrance in my view, both should be used in similar frequency.

Having said that, it is a problem that there can be too many common names that are synonyms - it's just something you have to deal with. Can you believe that there are still people who call carambola the "Five corner fruit"? At least star fruit has some imagination. My recent pet hate is hearing "Beach cambuca" for Myrciaria strigipes, when it should be Beach cabeludinha. Appropriating names for things that are not so closely related is dumb in my opinion. Indigenous names are becoming more popular, though they are often a mouthful and too repetitive as well. The best from each world will win out long term.

I may be new to tropical fruit trees, but not new to plants... ;)

I never said to NOT use cultivar/common names...But there are same cultivar names being used for completely DIFFERENT species, within the same genus.   :o

All the other plant forums that I belong to: Palms / Orchids / Bromeliads, etc...that I belong to use scientific names with cultivar names. 

32
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Plant Naming Convention Suggestion
« on: September 21, 2020, 01:18:14 PM »
Difficult, yes, but should be done.  Reality is, outside of grafted plants, there is no guarantee that you are going to get the exact traits of the mother plant.  But knowing the species is a good starting point.  If that information is not known, then it would clearly be understood. 

33
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Plant Naming Convention Suggestion
« on: September 20, 2020, 01:48:31 PM »
I suggest people use the latin name for plants.  It removes a lot of confusion.  If we all can see the genus/species, it makes it a lot more straight-forward.  Trade names or 'Cultivars' can then be used to show differences within the same species.  I am trying to learn about Plinia and Myrciaria.  I am guilty of using the generic name of Jaboticaba as well. 

34
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grumichama vs Jaboticaba
« on: September 17, 2020, 03:44:25 PM »
Not a simple question because IMHO the variability in grumichama fruits is as high as the variability of cherry of the Rio Grande, Pitanga and Pitomba. A really good Variety is worth the space in the ground and is worth growing on its own merits. Jaboticaba is a little more uniform and reproducible with well established varieties including the newer precocious varieties having a predictable fruit flavor. Forced to choose I prefer Jaboticaba.

Yes, one of the reasons why I am asking IS because of that variability in both fruits.  So far, sounds like Jaboticaba is more consistent in flavor from different plants while there is more variability with Grumichama.  Interestingly, the circle of growers I know in person, they like Grumichama better.

35
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grumichama vs Jaboticaba
« on: September 17, 2020, 10:58:36 AM »
No comparison in my book. We dug out our grumichama tree. The taste was somewhat insipid to me and the texture was somewhat 'off' as well. That, plus the fact that the entire tree essentially ripens within a 1-week period, it was just not worth it.

Our red jabo is delicious and essentially produces year-round.

You sound EXACTLY like what I have read from Adam from Fly Fox Fruits.  :)

I am not looking at Pros and Cons of each fruit.  Just the taste.  Because one can argue that Grumichama fruits faster (than most Jaboticabas) and they produce two abundant harvests a year.

36
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grumichama vs Jaboticaba
« on: September 16, 2020, 01:18:02 PM »
Even though there are different Jaboticaba cultivars, the taste of the fruit are distinctively different from Grumichama.  So base it on your experience of your Jaboticaba cultivar vs. grumichama.

37
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Grumichama vs Jaboticaba
« on: September 16, 2020, 12:49:38 PM »
I now have both of these fruit trees and am curious as to which one tastes better.  Please only vote if you have experienced tasting BOTH fruits. 

38
Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / WTB - Pitomba
« on: September 14, 2020, 01:44:09 PM »
Looking to get this plant.  The larger the better.


Thanks in advance,



Joe

39
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Introduce Yourself
« on: September 12, 2020, 11:57:20 PM »
Hi Everyone,

Joe here from Huntington Beach, CA.  I have been collecting palm trees from all over the world for the past 12 years.  As the palms are maturing and getting taller, I wanted to plant tropical fruit trees under them to give different textures and of course, enjoy the fruits.  At the moment, I am interested in understory fruit trees that do not need full sun.  Any recommendations are welcomed.

40
Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: WTB - Hybrid Red Jaboticaba
« on: September 11, 2020, 11:15:22 PM »
I have 15 gallon flowering Redís, 15 Gallon Grimal and 15 Gallon Ponhema grafted available for pick up in Nor Cal, Santa Cruz. Also a few less stratospherically expensive 5 gallon Red /Hybrids. I know itís far but I think these are hard to find for sell anywhere in CA.

I actually will be in the area in the next couple of weeks for business.  Please PM prices.  I am interested.


Joe

41
Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: WTB - Hybrid Red Jaboticaba
« on: September 11, 2020, 04:18:56 PM »
Since you're in OC, if you're willing to drop down into SD county, I bought my Red Jabo at Exotica in Vista, CA. Would also be a good idea to call ahead as well.


PM me.  Iím interested.   Please provide pics and pricing.



Joe

42
Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / WTB - Hybrid Red Jaboticaba
« on: September 10, 2020, 06:40:12 PM »
Starting to collect different Jaboticaba cultivars.  Looking for a 3+ year old plant.


Thanks in advance,



Joe

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