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Messages - DesertDreamer

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Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Mulberry Thread.
« on: December 24, 2017, 02:40:34 PM »
Okay, been a while for this thread, but a few questions have gone unanswered.  Peruvian is almost as good as Shangri-la.  Similar size.  Harvest time depends on heat..most people harvest April-may.  Variety cannot be reliably pinpointed via leaves.  Leaves vary a lot, but both shangri-la and Pakistani tend to have "whole" leaves with few, if any, fingers.  Alba, nigra, rubra applies to bud color, NOT fruit color.  White Pakistani and Australian are not that different.  I have both grafted to a single rootstock.  White pak tends to sugar sweet, with grassy undertones.  Australian tend tooward melon undertones.  I prefer Australian.  I have a male that I believe is black beauty;  if anyone wants scions, I'll gladly ship for postage once tree goes dormant (it's 70f here today, things barely starting dormancy).  It's not clear that fruiting must be on seasoned wood, but I definitely get better fruiting if wood/branch is woodier.  Nigra flavor is miles better;  I know taste is subjective, but I cannot imagine anyone preferring rubra or alba if they have tasted ripe Nigra. 
Anyone have tips on rooting cuttings of Nigra?  All rot for me.  Looking to trade for some gelso Della Regina.  I have Pakistani, shangri la, the two white fruited as per above.

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My unquantified two cents:  I get a better success rate when I use fungi at transplant.  I believe there is a lot of hype around these products, and that native fungi dominate rapidly, but I have seen enough of a difference that I use a bit on high value plants at certain growth stages.  FWIW....

3
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Best product for Phomopsis?
« on: September 30, 2017, 01:13:43 AM »
Phyton 35, mancozeb, in rotation seems to have saved a 'fruit punch' in my yard.  No way a. Liquifaciens is going to cure.

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Expert opinions on zone 9b, desert climate
« on: September 07, 2017, 12:06:19 AM »
Figtreeaz, any experience with loquat?  I have lost 3, but finally got one thru summer...heavy shade seems to have helped.  Your experience?

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mangos and nitrogen
« on: August 31, 2017, 01:11:13 AM »
You are both right.  Legumes fix nitrogen from the air via symbiotic N fixing bacteria.  However, they fix less than 100 percent of their own needs, and will consume other nutrients.  Some other plants nearby will benefit from nitrogen that 'bleeds' away from the rhizosphere, but the main benefit is seen when legumes are cut and used as mulch and they return a portion to the soil.  Some plants like a slow drip of nitrogen that leaks from legumes, but I have found only marginal benefit from this.  Not NO benefit, but only small benefit. 

6
We do something very similar to mr clean, but use a higher percent of shade cloth here in AZ.  Easiest way I have found to attach shade is using pvc snap on clamps http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/product/snap-clamps/pvc-fittings_1
During winter, remove shade, wrap with plastic and re-use the snap clamps to hold plastic.  Easy to remove clamps and lift plastic when temps are higher.
DD

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Yeah, not sure if plants are coming in with something that is a benign infection in more moderate temps, or something that starts here in AZ...and certainly no incrimination of vendors implied.  But, I have seen symptoms that are too consistent to ignore or write off as bad care.  One possibility is certain soil conditions have better micro org. Communities and help ward off issues....cooler microclimates obviously help.  I also think certain varieties are less well adapted....so get the right combination and you can do well.  In marginal climates like ours, tropical fruit growing has an element of chance to it, so you just keep trying new things until you hit the right combination of factors.

8
1.  Easy in ground: pomegranate, fig, apricot, peach.  Morninga and neem thrive, though neem needs winter protection for the first winter or two.  Barbados cherry is pretty bulletproof as is mulberry.  Citrus, of course.  Poincianas can do well in a warm spot, though they take a beating in winter.
2. ALL trees need some protection from western sun for first year.
3. Microclimate needed: mango, starfruit, annonas, sapotes, jabos, avocado, banana...this varies depending on size at planting and your conditions.  Most of these can eventually grow into full eastern exposure sun, and some into a western exposure, but need that microclimate for the first year or so.  Some grow banana in full sun, but it always does better for me with some microclimate/humidity/shade.
4. Pots only...don't have a lot of experience here, because I don't bother with plants that would need this, but I think jackfruit and the ultra tropicals fit this category.  I grow some plumeria in pots until they have enough size to put in ground where they are always happier....and overwinter in a dry, sheltered area without too much protection needed.

Sorry if I messed up the order of your questions, but that should give you something to think about.

9
I have been gardening in Phoenix for ten years.  Five of them growing mangos.  Your observations about '6 months ok, then necrosis' is spot on.  Happens even in pots.  Alkaline water and wind borne spores, along with over 110 temps seems to do most of them in.  Some varieties adapt well (lemon zest, kesar, fruit punch). Others do not (I've killed 4 coco cream).  Shade is key, and just the right amount of drainage makes a huge difference.  Ideally, start in shade, grow into sun...and do whatever you can to get them thru that first summer.   I think we get a temp induced 'dormancy' that stresses the trees and only vigorously growing plants make it thru that first summer.  I am also starting to wonder if there isn't a fungal or bacterial infection in many fl grown trees that doesnt affect trees until our summer temps hit....I now hit all newly purchased trees with copper for a month or so after I acquire them.  Saved a fruit punch that was going that direction with this approach.
On Jake and others associated with him..say what you want, but he has gotten more good info out there than bad, and he has popularized the hobby here in AZ.  Always consider the experience of anyone giving advice.  Although the self love can be off putting, there is a ton of good info there, and there is clearly no intent to deceive...maybe a little more confidence in opinions and observations than is warranted, but an honest effort to educate.  Additionally, the clique that disses he and his associated crew seem aligned with another vendor of trees in town.  Bottom line, there are VERY few people around with much experience growing tropicals under AZ conditions.  There's lots of blowhards and kids with two mangos in pots for a year who will claim they know what they are doing, but the newness of the hobby in this area really demands critical thinking skills, lots of reading, and a skeptical outlook. 
Use good soil.  Water appropriately.  Fertilize modestly.  Use mulch.  Provide shade when plants are young.  Keep trying and experimenting.  Those are the fundamentals.

10
Rooting percentage of cuttings varies dramatically by species (rubra>Alba>Nigra).  I have tried many times to get cuttings rooted, but I think we heat up too quickly here in AZ....dormant cuttings push growth before roots have begun to proliferate.  I get fooled into thinking I have 'finally done it', only to have growth wither and die and only small or no root growth once I investigate.  Seems rubra and hybrids have a much higher'take' rate, or so it seems based on what little data that I can find.  Seems most authors neglect to mention, or know/care, what species they are working with.
Would welcome any input people have on increasing rooting percentage with Nigra.

11
Hey Joe, can you give some details on your vinegar drip system?  Have been thinking of doing something similar, but haven't been able to accomplish consistent dosing at low flow rates in a drip system.

12
Knlim, take that article wit a grain of salt.  Any article that says am. Sulfate will turn soil alkaline is probably not worth taking seriously.  However, I have burnt mangos with this fertilizer, and prefer using nitrate nitrogen on mango.  Alternatively, and preferably, use a slow release formula
Chad

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Introduce Yourself
« on: February 19, 2016, 11:16:41 PM »
Hey all.  Name is Chad, been lurking on here for a year or so.  Gardening and fruit trees are in my genes.  So. Cal native, economic refugee that now lives in Tempe, AZ.  Typical suburban lot now filled with fruiting plants, and a few ornamentals.  My industry is aerospace, married to the neighborhood crazy cat lady, while I play the role of neighborhood crazy plant man.  Other hobbies include....yeah, like I have time for other hobbies....Hoping to offer some perspective from another climactic area.  Mango, star fruit, mulberry, citrus, some stone fruit,grapes, avocado, Eugenia...all the usual suspects have some space in my yard.

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Pruning advice for "leggy trees"
« on: February 19, 2016, 10:52:33 PM »
In my experience, plants don't like drastic, traumatic changes. Many can survive just fine, but some won't. The safest way to proceed is to prune slowly, giving the trees a chance to adapt over time to new conditions, and form a new shape. Don't lop off everything that carries a leaf and force the tree through more stress than necessary - if something else happens to come along at the same time that you were not anticipating, like a terrible cold snap, an infestation of some kind of pest, a flood, whatevyer... the tree will die because it was already stressed out to the max.

I don't know how to explain exactly how I would prune them, but I have a decent feeling for how much a tree of a certain size needs proportionally to do well. It's easier to see in person. Small mangoes are a little tricky since they hold all their leaves in a concentrated location at the end of a branch, but a safe way to do this would be to cut just one or two branches at a time, maybe a foot back just before a node so it can sprout new leaves fairly quickly. Leave multiple branches in good shape with healthy leaves so the tree is not much affected. Wait until the new cuts have healed and brought forth healthy full-size leaves, and then cut the others. If the tree still looks leggy, you can cut back the same branch further, once it has shown it can heal from the length you already took off. No need to do it all at once for such a small tree - a well-rooted tree can handle more severe cuts, but that thing is tiny still and more vulnerable. It might take you 6 months to a year, but you'll get there, and you won't harm your tree in the process. It's sort of a bonsai situation. You have to be patient. You may find, if the trees produce fruit this year, that this method might also result in larger fruit on the branches that you left intact. That is often the case with selective pruning, because the tree will focus its energy differently. If you decide to keep any of the fruit, you may get a few large mangoes, and then when the season is over and the cut branches have healed, you cut the remaining branches and the ones that were cut first may produce bigger fruit the next season. Then when the tree is finally all evened out, it should have more branches in a more concentrated area so it will be aesthetically more pleasing, and with so many branches functioning at full capacity simultaneously, your fruit should go back to normal. But if you cut out many of the new mangoes in the next crop, the ones remaining will be bigger.

This strategy has worked well for me on maybe 80-100 different trees, and eventually they all get to be a pleasing shape. The health of your tree should always be top priority to its appearance. That way you don't waste time and money growing trees that you then kill all for the sake of tree vanity. :)  The harder you are on your trees, and the more trauma you subject them to, the less likely they are to survive. Severe pruning - especially leaving no leaves at all - is really taking a major chance that is unnecessary. And if one does not have patience, one should get out of the fruit growing business, right? :) Sooooo much patience needed for these plants. Plan in terms of years, not months, wherever possible. Prune gradually, and the plants will thank you.
This is good advice.  Slow, methodical pruning gives the best result for most trees.  Some can stand, and some may even thrive, with drastic pruning, but in my conditions and in my experience, steady, well thought out pruning is part of the "art" of being a good steward of ones trees.

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Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Sambucus Mexicana
« on: April 21, 2015, 09:09:32 PM »
Can anyone comment on taste?  I'm interested too, but don't need an aggressive grower that I cant eat...

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Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Mulberry Thread.
« on: April 21, 2015, 09:01:52 PM »
Have tasted: shangri-la (good; great later in season), black beauty (good; taller tree, rarely get to taste, the birds get them all), pakistani (great), florida everbearing (good; young tree, may turn out to be great), Persian (great), Geraldi dwarf (good-great; doesn't bear as heavily as the others).  Note that flavor really can be variable with climate and water and ripening...more so than many other fruit.  And, maturity matters too....the more mature the tree, the more consistent the flavor from year to year.
All grow easily here in Phoenix, some shade always helps when young, but these trees are almost bullet proof in my climate. Shade, sun, east exposure, west exposure.....doesn't matter; just water and stand back.

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