That is a cool discovery! If any of your 24 new Uvaia's produce fruit this year, I'll be asking you for seeds! I love the genetic variation that this species displays.

According to the studies I have seen Uvaia is genetically very close to Ubajay, Eugenia Beaurepairiana and Eugenia Lutescens. But that entire 'Uvaia' branch of the evolutionary Eugenia tree sits between Eugenia Involucrata and Eugenia Uniflora. So it's close enough to Pitanga to share some of the genes that would make the leaves turn red. My Pitanga's do that on new growth and when it gets cold. On this tree it looks like a reaction to the cold, since all leaves have turned red.

Beaurepairiana has an orange fruit, so maybe that one produces more red pigment? Maybe it has some of those genes. It would be cool if this one would give an orange fruit.

By the way - if you want to try some crosses, I would try to cross Uvaia with these species - they are evolutionary the closest to Uvaia. Repanda, Guabiju and Florida are also on the same branch, but further away than Involucrata and Uniflora.

Cool! Congratulations on getting the new Uvaia's. I had read on the net about the variation in this species, but I am still surprised to see such big differences. Very cool, though, I hope you'll also find different flavors and sizes in their fruits.

I have one seedling Uvaia that is 3 years old and very short and bushy, with short glossy leaves. And I always thought that this was what Uvaia looked like, - all the Brazilian fruits are completely new to me. So I was surprised to see photo's of Uvaia's on this forum with very different leaves. And now I want to collect them all! 

Here is a picture of the two I have: the one on the right is 3 years old, with the short glossy leaves, it is barely 30 cm high. The one on the left is one year old and has leaves like I have seen in other pictures.



I guess the one on the left is the same as your tree Uvaia, but my short one still looks different from your bushy one. I noticed that just like mine, your bushy one also makes new pairs of leaves perpendicular to the pair under it (Spiral arrangement). Normal Uvaia seems to have all of them in pairs, but in the same plane (Opposite arrangement). Although this is not really a strong habit in my bushy one, maybe 60% of the leaves ar spiral, 40% opposite. The leaves of both have never turned red, even in frost.

Hi Marcos, I am super impressed! What an incredible variety of plants you have and you've really got balls to plant them all out in the open. I will be watching this thread closely to see how they will be doing over time. An amazing experiment! I hope we will get some surprises and find out a couple of these trees will do well in your climate zone.

As you know I am living in France in a colder climate zone (8b), but also grow a lot of these species in pots to try them out at a plot of land in northern Portugal, zone 9a.

So I have been able to see how some of these plants do both in 8b and 9a as seedlings.
Most surprising to me on the disappointing side is that I haven't been able to keep one white sapote alive, even though on the net they are said to be able to take up to -3 or even -5
Also I am ready to give up on my Jaboticaba's. To keep them alive in pots on city water and getting them through the winters here until they are large enough to risk planing outside is just too difficult. They grow slowly and simply rebound too slowly after losing their leaves in spring.
For me also Longan, Grumixama and Chamba bit the dust.... They never really made it past the seedling stage

Besides the strongest Myrtaceae that you grow already; Uvaia, Araca, Cerella and Pitanga, a good surprise for me has been Campomanesia Xanthocarpa - very strong and resilient plant that takes a cold and wet winter pretty well and rebounds quickly when it warms up again. Also the Macadamia I planted out as a seedling in Portugal did very well two years later, even though from the net I didn't get the idea it would be hardier than white sapote.
I have some seedlings of Bacuri, or Pacuri started this year, but no idea yet of how they will get through the first winter inside on the windowsill here.
And a nice surprise in taste was the Luma Chequen i found here at a nursery. Compared to other Luma's I grow it is really a lot better tasting, and I consider it a real fruit now, instead of a 'wild edible'

It's very exciting to see you are daringly planting all these guys outside, I hope they will do well!

Good luck,
Solko
 

After seeing all the mouthwatering taste reports of the subtropical Eugenia's come by in the tropical fruit section, I couldn't wait to harvest a plate of my own temperate Myrtaceae. But not only does it take longer for them to ripen in my 8a climate, it also took a long time to find a plate that was small enough so that my harvest wouldn't look completely ridiculous 



Three different types of Luma and several different Ugni Molinae cultivars are ripening up right now.

On the picture above you can see, starting at the top left the small red Ugni Molinae "Elite", then in clockwise order, the purple Luma Chequen, my small leaved Ugni Molinae, grown from seed, then a Luma Apiculata with small pear-shaped berries, my large leaved Ugni Molinae variety, and finally my variegated Luma Apiculata, probably Glenleam Gold, which makes big round berries.

This is what the inside of the berries look like, the Luma's have a very creamy sweet pulp.



And this is what they taste like:

Ugni "Elite"- very good, fruity and sweet, it's a very small fruit, but the plant is said to fruit in abundance.
Luma Chequen - surprisingly similar to the Ugni's, but with a much more creamy flesh, like ice cream or yoghurt - I was really pleasantly surprised, it has a beautiful taste and texture, fruity and sweet. But it does have a tannic or bitter aftertaste if you chew the skin. And it has much larger seeds than the Ugni. You can just pop the pulp in your mouth and spit out the seeds, or eat it with the skin, it is not a strong tannic flavor, so I kind of enjoy it.
Ugni small leaf - Also small berries, but with a beautiful, fruity and sweet flavor, medium sized fruit, very hardy plant, both to drought and cold
Luma Apiculata - pear shaped small fruit - sweet pulp, but very bitter and resinous aftertaste, not really palatable, the ratio of pulp to skin and seeds is very small, and this one really has a very very strong tannic and resinous flavor, I wouldn't offer this one to eat to anyone.
Ugni large leaf - largest fruit, more pulp, same delicious taste, more acidic then the small leaf, but also sweeter, so all in all a more concentrated fruity and tangy flavor. No astringent aftertaste whatsoever, just fruitiness.
Luma Apiculata variegated, probably Glenleams gold - very good, sweet, creamy pulp and even a bit spicy, not so much fruitiness. It also has no resinous aftertaste, nor bitterness, but not the same depth or fruitiness of the Luma Chequen.

I must say that I was all in all very pleasantly surprised by the taste of the bigger Luma berries. I love Ugni's, but I am glad that I discovered that the pulp of the Luma's is absolutely delicious as well. It is much more creamy, but also very sweet and fruity. The skin is more tannic and resinous with the Luma's, and they have large seeds, that I didn't chew on, while you can eat the Ugni's without a problem, seeds and skin and all. There just seems to be more variation in the Luma's than in the Ugni's, going from almost unpalatable to delicious for the Luma's, while almost all Ugni's are good.

And finally the only reason why these berries are relatively unknown: their size....



But the upside is that they are pretty rare and they do grow well in a 8a climate without any protection, they can handle prolonged frost up to -8 Celsius without any problems.

Simon, I'm curious at what stage / size / time you've had the best luck grafting your direct-seeded Avocados.  I have ~50 of them in the ground now and they're various sizes -- between 2 inch sprouts and 2 foot vigorous seedlings.  Here in the East Bay I've had the best luck grafting Avocados in February, but that's on mature in-ground trees rather than seedlings.

Thanks!

It's a very good question, I have some 2 to 3 year old direct seeded avocado trees and was looking at the same question. I have read in an old publication that I cannot find back, that the old groves in California were originally established by direct seeding and grafting. Only later they started grafting in the nursery and planting out those trees, and if I remember correctly it was a trade-off between the grafts taking much better in nursery conditions and the rootsystems getting much better established from direct seeds.

So I guess the time of grafting is pretty critical. The tree must be in a growth flush, there must be enough water in the soil to keep it growing for another couple of weeks, and you must be able to protect the graft from drying out or overheating in the sun. Maybe now that we have parafilm, which the oldtimers didn't have, we have the ability to do that and we can get a higher percentage of takes on direct seeded rootstock. But I would wait for springtime, unless you can irrigate.

Solko

Anto, I think you posted your question in the wrong forum, maybe the moderator can move it to the tropical fruit section?
I guess that is why you didn't get a response yet. I am no mango expert but here is what I know after killng a few trees myself.
As far as I know mango is more sensitive to frost then all the plants you named. It seems to be able to take some frost for a short time, but certainly not in the same amount that a lemon tree or lemon guava can. I think the mango tree, especially a small or young one can easily die with 2 degrees of frost for a whole night.
Goid luck,
Solko

Hey Miguel,

Thanks for posting this article as well.
It's interesting to see that both studies base their findings and classification on the morphological traits of both types, I guess that is what botanists use to identify separate species. I am not a botanist, but somehow it would be even more convincing to me if one of us, who is actually growing both types, was able to assess how easily they cross. If they easily pollinate each other, than I would say that they are definitely two forms of the same species, but if they fail to pollinate each other, technically, I would say they have already separated into two separate species.

Did you ever try to pollinate flowers of one type with pollen of the other?

Solko

Here is my final follow up on my feijoa grafting. It wasn't a full success, but I learned quite a few things.

We have had a terrible wet and cold spring, and then a pretty hot and dry summer. My plants are in pots and for a long time after I grafted them they remained dormant, because it was too cold. So I wasn't really taking notice of the fact that when it started to heat up they were in full sun and that they needed a bit more water then I gave them. Most grafts showed good signs of growth. In June I left for two weeks and all the small grafts dried out, because it was too hot and sunny. I think if I would have protected them with a bag, or if I would have put the plants in a shady spot, they would have had a better chance.

In any case, 13 of my 45 grafts survived, and those were all of the largest size - pencil size wood. Some were cleft grafted, the others whip and tongue and one side veneer graft took. The whip and tongue graft had a higher rate of success, I think because it increases the area that cambium contact can form.

So for next year I will:
- use pencil size wood,
- wait for the rootstock plants to come out of dormancy,
- use whip and tongue grafts,
- tie the graft tightly,
- protect the grafts that are in full sun and
- water the rootstock plants thoroughly throughout summer.

Here are some pictures of the successful grafts:

Cleft graft


Whip and tongue


Whip and tongue


Whip and tongue on the top and an side veneer graft lower on the lower right side of the same stem


Cleft graft on thicker wood - aligned only on one side - it healed fine


And another cleft on thicker wood



These are the failed grafts, the crazy thing is that on this particular plant underneath all the failed grafts it started to flower like crazy, so even while I didn't get the graft to take, I am still getting a lot of fruit!

I am pretty sure that there is no relationship that you can deduce from the observation that B pollinates A, other than that one. But if you are not sure if your plants are even in the same genus, it would certainly get my hopes up to observe that at least in one direction the pollination works.
That said, for two plants of the same species I think the chances of B being able to pollinate A are quite high, but that is because it is statistically the same chance that A is capable of pollinating B  - just the statistical chance in general that two different plants of that same species are compatible, which is in general quite high for most plants.

As others already replied, the pollen of one plant can be defective, - it has it's own mechanism for germinating on the stylus of the female flower, and lots of things can go wrong there, or mismatch. Some plants have very receptive styli, others very selective ones, some have pollen that match easily with a great variety of other plants, others have difficult or 'weak' pollen.

The fact that hermafrodite flowers have both pollen and a stylus doesn't imply - as far as I know- that once one plant accepts the pollen of the other, that the other stylus would also recognize the pollen of the first as compatible. It has to do with the mechanism on the stylus of each plant that recognizes the proteins around the pollen cells of the other plant as compatible. These are two separate systems. And not one single match that works for both systems in both ways.

Hope that helps,

Solko

Hi Shinzo,
I have had similar red spots show up on several of my Myrtaceae. I did some searching on the net and didn't find any conclusive answer, but I think it is the result of over-fertilization. For me it affects my Feijoa most, and mostly so in the colder months.
It could also be something related to the roots - them being too wet when the top of the plant is not in active growth, but that would not be the case in your situation.
In any case - the spots don't disappear, but the old leaves fall off and new leaves grow healthy and green in the next flush, normall. I would water with normal water, and not fertilize your tree for a while, until the spots disappear.

Hope that helps,

Solko

Congratulations on your takes. That is pretty amazing and really great to see, thank you for sharing.
I have tried several times to take cuttings of Myrtaceae, but it is hard. Keeping the soil wet is a good tip. I have had good success with semi hardwood cuttings of Ugni, and none with Feijoa.
I did have a couple of takes on my Campomanesia's laat year, so that may be worth sharing here. They do take a long time and do not seem to mind the cold that much, but after taking hardwood cuttings in autumn, one out of three developed roots the next spring. With a little bottom heat - I also didn't let the soil dry out.
Very hopeful results! I will try my COTRG and some pitanga's and maybe some leaf cuttings this year as well, Adam seems to have had success with that for Grumixama.
Thanks for sharing!

I used a peat/normal soil mix. But my guess is that the season of the year may be important. It was in fall and winter. I covered the pots with the mini greenhouse, but I guess any plastic bag will do. I have read that a lot of plants favor root growth in fall and winter and leaf and fruit growth in spring and summer.