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Messages - Francis_Eric

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Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Can pawpaw be grown in Twin Cities area?
« on: October 18, 2019, 04:30:38 AM »
See Image just saw someone post this
(searching humid link below)
says pawpaw need 150 days frost free days
I think the more north for the longer periods of time the more generations of seedlings they will adapt more.

I hope this helps some
(by the way I cannot remember if VE-21 was for breeding , or a good selection I copied , and pasted it for you
 (winter delight is opposite needs more breeding though)

VE-21 Prolific X Overleese - Variety is very early, produces pawpaw that range in size from average to large, light yellow skin, and has a sweet, excellent pawpaw flavor.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Can pawpaw be grown in Twin Cities area?
« on: October 18, 2019, 12:54:54 AM »
What is your Humidity Like In MN?
Each Month (what about August/)

I actually just talked on the phone , about putting a grove in MN today
for a late Harvesting crop (If I where to sell them) (other place down south (taxes)

VE -21

 Cultivars Summer Delight

I have heard of people growing them in MN
could be good to put a grove of them for a latter ripening harvest then everyone else.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Can pawpaw be grown in Twin Cities area?
« on: October 18, 2019, 12:48:12 AM »
Try Cliff England (Jerry Lehman) VE -21

I just realized Something today I  found These out side  , realized VE stands for Very Early
(he said they were Early (i was thinking Vermont VE for the longest time)
That the best with Cultivars Summer Delight may also be a good choice
(and I am sure Triloba tracker has good advice )

I have heard of people growing them in MN
could be good to put a grove of them for a latter ripening harvest then everyone else.

(I almost Forgot )
I am not the best with Knowing about the climates , and such, but
Michigan Is zone 6 , a Micro Climate , because Lake Michigan Holds heat from the Sun
 the LAKE being on the West side
Blow the wind  West to East, and makes the Climate "in the Winter" warmer than Chicago.

I am editing out the rest of this post because I really am not certain , and
I tried to explain How they Grow Grapes
(Pinot Noir type (hybrid marquette)
better having a cooler climate

I am No expert, and it does get confusing
SO If someone Knows, and can explain
(I used to visit a breeding grape site, but do not know myself)
 I do Hear Pawpaw season  In MI is Mid October

My Limited experience Says it is earlier Here (mid September with one tree)

I am pretty Sure we get More Humidity here (on the west side of the lake)
, but this isn't personal experience.
 (Only time I been in MI for 2 days In July or August )

Note I do Hear Of Britains Mild Raining climate , and people grow things you wouldn't think
with early types (as with Persimmon ) I would ask Cliff England his advice ,
and I have not been online for 2 years, So I haven't read up for a while,
but people do different things in Certain places (white gravel to reflect sun , black Lava rock to absorb Sun)

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« on: October 17, 2019, 09:00:27 AM »
We Should start a pawpaw, cultivar list hahaha ,
(and what they taste like, and where they were tasted season picked etc.)

Red fern Farm, Wapello Iowa
 has Regulus, Atria, Betria seedlings of Peterson cultivars
Shensus Pawpaw Seedlings: These seedlings have either Shenandoah or Susquehanna as their mother tree and Shenandoah or Susquehanna as the pollinizer tree. Seedlings of their crosses have produced some outstanding new genetics (Regulus, Atria, Betria)

I plan to visit them In Iowa, but too late for pawpaws (maybe Michigan has some in October)

Found this a while ago Paw paw resource page
see photo section for bigger pictures
 a lot of different names I never heard in picture below
This just makes me want to get that big one with 4 seeds maybe next year.


Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« on: October 17, 2019, 08:21:05 AM »
There is one in Canada that mentions growing  - 40 F (we've had polar a vortex, and they survived ) 
This site could be hype (it's been a while , but last I read I seemed like Marketing BS)

I am not as  concerned of the cold climate, but not ripening, in those Humid less climates. (isn't it)
so selections that ripen up sound promising to breed even higher North . (or use as a breeding tool for others .)

("taylor made") (taylor) seems to be their trade mark for seed grown plants that adapted
would be great if all this stuff adapted (I could believe , but the marketing turns me off)
At least their against GMO's

Thanks for letting me know of sibbley
 Brought 5 four feet tree's that where bare root to (NOLA) Louisiana (to ship)
 (unfortunately never got them from where I left them at the firehouse)

Har do you know If I use Northern root stock will that be bad for Putting Sibley on In Northern Louisiana .

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« on: October 17, 2019, 07:10:42 AM »
There is a Sibley's Greenhouses in Louisiana that selected several extreme southern varieties of Asimina triloba, several decades ago.
Ahhh yes. I noticed that while googling right before your post.
Seems like Sibley is an uncommon variety these days.

I wish They market this (cultivar name) stuff Better
Like southern Sibley

According to the ( Tyler )Halvin pawpaw he Thinks there are too many cultivars coming out
just nurseries making up names (i've heard)

I think it is good to get bio diversity , but I can see that happening
same old Flavor same old characteristics  ,
but I really do not know about the different cultivars
just saying I could see Nurseries taking advantage (of something new)

I heard of another From Berea KY (I've been to that college, and someone mentioned eating it )
turns out that one changes color when it is ripe
(called Golden moon)

[quote author]

Big, golden yellow fruits with excellent flavor and texture. We came across this apparent seedling pawpaw discovered around Berea College in Berea, KY. It stood out immediately due to the fact that it was just loaded with dozens of plump, attractive, impressive sized fruits (6-12+ ounces) and the ripest fruit literally had turned this beautiful and distinct golden-yellow color. This is called a “color break” to pawpaw researchers and is a very rare and desirable trait that lets you know exactly when to harvest the ripe fruit. Golden Moon fruits are very thick, custardy and have a delicious, very sweet flavor with a light yellow colored flesh. The few seeds are easily removed. Low seed weight. Very productive, tree gets loaded with fruit. Unlike any other pawpaw we’ve come across. Overall a very productive, excellent quality and hardy pawpaw to add to any collection.[/quote]

Sorry for explaining this so much
just wanted to be clear on what I mean't
so people can make use of the site
instead of wasting their precious time

Take this for example On the old site I cured my itchy throat in less than 1 Minute.

Looked it up , and peanut butter coats your throat
cured in under a Minute or 2 (really no longer really quick.)

What I mean't By looked it up

Looked up the medicinal uses Chest and Lungs
demulcent Soothes, lubricates and softens irritated tissues, especially the mucous membranes. ( 179 )
quickly scrolled to peanut (as in peanut butter)

you can even search faster ( I was familiar enough with the site at that time not now, but)
Hold down the buttons ctrl with f
pops up a find box  type in mucus (as in mucus membranes) or what ever ailment you may have.

You can see the definitions on the medicinal link 
but it doesn't work to see 100 plants at a time (even on the old web page)
You have to use the home link (, and click on demulcent "BOX", click search)

Hope this helps people save time
sites new  layout is garbage now, and wastes to much time.

What I will do is open 2 tabs for the medicinal  definitions
One I will use to read the definitions
the other to be on the Old data base home page
, and click what ever ailment I may have
(check the box on the home page click search)

(sorry for being so confusing I haven't typed for over 2 years )

Temperate Fruit & Orchard Online Library / Re: Plants for a future
« on: October 17, 2019, 06:17:18 AM »
This is similar to PFAF at least the info is the same

I really wish there was a site like this for tropicals too.

They do


Native Seeds/SEARCH (NS/S) is a nonprofit seed conservation organization based in Tucson, Arizona. Our mission is to conserve and promote the arid-adapted crop diversity of the Southwest in support of sustainable farming and food security.

Our story began in 1983 when co-founders Barney Burns, Mahina Drees, Gary Nabhan and Karen Reichhardt worked on a food security Meals for Millions project to support the Tohono O’odham Nation in establishing gardens for their sustainable food needs. Over many generations, the forces of colonization and later globalization had eroded the cultures and economies and that kept these vital foods alive in the landscape. In discussions with tribal elders they were told “What we are really looking for are the seeds for the foods our grandparents used to grow.” This sage remark inspired the formation of Native Seeds/SEARCH as a collector and preserver of endangered traditional seeds from communities in the Southwest.

Since its founding, Native Seeds/SEARCH has been dedicated to conserving the rich agro-biodiversity of the arid Southwest. Preserved in our seed bank today are nearly 2,000 varieties of crops adapted to arid landscapes extending from southern Colorado to central Mexico, many of them rare or endangered. The collection represents the cultural heritage and farming knowledge of over 50 indigenous communities, as well as recent immigrants like Spanish missionaries and Mormon homesteaders. We also conserve a number of crop wild relatives, wild ancestors of domesticated plants.

These seeds, and the knowledge of how to grow them, represent sophisticated adaptations to the challenges of farming in the desert, adaptations that continue to be relevant to sustainable ecosystems of the future. Each growing season we regenerate a portion of the collection at different sites: our Conservation Center gardens in Tucson and in partnership with numerous regional small farmers. We return some seeds to long-term cold storage, and distribute the surplus through sales at our retail store in Tucson, through our annual seedlisting, and online. Currently we offer over 500 varieties from the NS/S collection alongside Native fine art and crafts, gifts, heirloom Southwest foods, and more. All proceeds support our nonprofit mission and enable us to distribute seeds for free to Native American families and community gardens. In addition we are substantially supported by individual donations, memberships, and foundation grants.

The resilience of our food systems depends on agricultural biodiversity, as farmers and plant breeders can draw on the myriad genetic combinations as raw materials to develop new varieties better adapted to an uncertain and changing environment. Climate change, water scarcity, new and more virulent crop pests and diseases — all of these troubling trends currently threatening our food security require a wide pool of genetic diversity to prevent catastrophic crop failure and famine. Thirty-six years on from our founding, our priority today is no longer in collecting rare seeds, but in exploring the rich and varied potential of these plants to provide nutrition and livelihoods to today’s farmers, gardeners, and consumers. While continuing to preserve our collection, NS/S also provides high quality training in seed saving and farming techniques to empower communities to use and conserve this treasure themselves.

Hi This is the Vegetable section ,  and tropical So all I can think of Is water melon comes from a tropical place

Anyways there are water melon you couldn't find anywhere else, and other vegetables .
Seeds of water melon can be roasted like Pumpkin seeds (for the really seedy types.)

 Tucson, Arizona


I recommend Switching to the Old database New one you have to click to much
(so they can fit more adds ) actually makes me use it less ,
 so the ad revenue they'd make off me using the site is less

I used to use the site for Hours , not barely ,
not That I see they have the option to switch to the old site I will be using more.

My point is that Now you see 30 plants per page
Used to see 100 plants per page (now you can switch to the Old data base)

Take this for example On the old site I cured my itchy throat in less than 1 Minute.
Looked up the word for it,  scrolled down
Well I do not know half those plants,
but I do know peanut

Looked it up , and peanut butter coats your throat
cured in under a Minute or 2 (really no longer really quick.)

Now I have to keep clicking on a short list of plants at least on the New database which I quit using as much
at least for a quick cure for something.
So the old one being back is great.

Tropical Fruit Online Library / Botany Dictionary
« on: October 16, 2019, 09:01:57 AM »
See Alphabetical Listing all the way to the right

For above can type
HOLD  CTRL button hold f,

type part word your looking up in find box

(mac uses Not the CTRL button , but command key instead. & hold f )

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Spice plants
« on: October 15, 2019, 05:23:27 PM »
You can try some berries here if you decide you want to grow them
(Chris is nice too the founder of pawpaw fest You can get Pawpaw pulp there also)
I do know the quality of the berries, and they taste good
I do not know the quality of the pawpaw fruit as mine de thawed , and fermented because I was traveling.

The Jelly they sell has a Mulled cider taste to it
I am not crazy over it
it uses Spice bush in it.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Native rainforest grapes
« on: October 15, 2019, 05:14:37 PM »
I will have to see If I can find my links (seen your post a while back.)
, but I wonder if your it's pepper vine your thinking of grows in the south, but I have no experience tasting it.

Fruit - raw or cooked. A poor taste[177]. The fruit is about 8mm in diameter and contains 3 seeds[200, 235]. It is carried in small bunches on the plant, rather like grapes[K]. The flesh is thin and inedible[235].

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Spice plants
« on: October 15, 2019, 04:41:07 PM »
I could let you know if I experiment if you'd like me to.

----------------------( Quote from Here )

The young leaves, twigs and fruit contain an aromatic essential oil and make a very fragrant tea[55, 62, 95, 102, 149, 183]. The twigs are best gathered when in flower as the nectar adds considerably to the flavour[183]. The dried and powdered fruit is used as a substitute for the spice ‘allspice’[2, 46, 55, 62, 95, 183]. The fruit is about the size of an olive[245]. The leaves can also be used as a spice substitute[55]. The new bark is pleasant to chew[183].

Spice bush has a wide range of uses as a household remedy, especially in the treatment of colds, dysentery and intestinal parasites[222, 238]. It warrants scientific investigation[222]. The bark is aromatic, astringent, diaphoretic, febrifuge, stimulant and tonic[61, 149, 227, 257]. It is pleasant to chew[227]. It is used in the treatment of coughs and colds[257]. The bark can be harvested at any time of the year and is used fresh or dried[238]. The fruits are carminative[222]. The oil from the fruits has been used in the treatment of bruises and rheumatism[222]. A tea made from the twigs was a household remedy for colds, fevers, worms and colic[222]. A steam bath of the twigs is used to cause perspiration in order to ease aches and pains in the body[257]. The young shoots are harvested during the spring and can be used fresh or dried[238]. The bark is diaphoretic and vermifuge. It was once widely used as a treatment for typhoid fevers and other forms of fevers[213, 222].

The leaves contain small quantities of camphor and can be used as an insect repellent and disinfectant[169]. An oil with a lavender-like fragrance is obtained from the leaves[245]. The fruit, upon distillation, yield a spice-scented oil resembling camphor[245]. An oil smelling of wintergreen is obtained from the twigs and bark[245].

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Spice plants
« on: October 15, 2019, 04:39:03 PM »
I've had several Allspice trees/shrubs outside here and never had any damage from frost/freezing.  They have certainly been hardy down to 26 degrees with adequate soil/air moisture.

Unfortunately I live near the Canadian boarder in a ski area, it's prone to severe cold snaps of 5-10 degrees and sometimes in the negatives with the average being in the 20's. I tried growing some types of citrus that claimed to tolerate down to the 20's or high 10's. They died when temps sustained 30 F and below for a prolonged period with a all time seasonal low of 16.

The conditions during the warm months are almost tropical with typical seasonal highs of 80 plus in the day and sometimes 60+ at night with rainy trends. The warm months are too short to attempt bananas outdoors, I just rescued my outdoor blue java banana plant that was really happy out there with a big rootball, some early frost that dropped the night time temps down to 28 had ruined all the growth it had achieved starting in late spring. It's base is almost too large to repot.

I tried starfruit too, despite being grown indoors the indoor temp and my ineptitude proved too stressful for it, so it died a few months after I got it.

I have a carnivorous plant starter pot on a whim, and also because of the issue of these pots attracting flying pests. It's a cape sundew.
Not tropical, but
You could try appalachian allspice Lindera Benzoin (native To Eastern USA)
It may grow a bit aggressive out doors I heard Edges of forest clearings

I Have not tried to experiment with the berries yet except eating whole, but do have some

Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: Fruit in October
« on: October 15, 2019, 07:13:49 AM »
What does that selection of Velvet apple taste like
May I be Interested in all that,  the V apple, grape mainly , Annona species , and Gods crown.

I forgot It's weird because I was just thinking of Velvet apple
is it $9 for shipping all, or each one separately.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« on: October 14, 2019, 04:19:10 PM »
@Francis_Eric : Interesting thought creating dwarf common Paw Paws by grafting on weak-growing rootstocks and to plant so many cultivars on narrowest space. But do hybridization rootstocks still have to be cultivated?

Oh Grow the seeds Snap the root in half, and get a clone like that
Keep the snapped half in a zip lock bag with air (puffed ) inside the bag sealed to raise the humidity.

Did it after snapped the seed part by accident they will re grow (a experiment I done many times)
KYSU even has something about clones from a 2 month cutting of root (mine where not that old)

People gather the root suckers , but haven't learned on doing this large scale yet, but root clone is a start
maybe if someone could do tissue culture .

KYSU tells they haven't yet, but they do Use sunflower for there root stocks so that doesn't make sense to me?
unless they have a large amount of Sunflower Pawpaw , and gather the Runners from each tree.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« on: October 14, 2019, 04:09:59 PM »
I know Jerry Lehman before He passed Crossed them (dwarf)
He said He tore the Parviflora Out , He was trying to keep his seeds as (I mena Open pollinated As best as posible , and didn't want Him selected ones getting Any Parviflora )
(bad tasting fruit does make better wine, and liquor however -- So maybe breed bad fruit)

I mean't to say Jerry Lehman had A. parviflora , and they get -10 F (or -22 C)
We get -20 F (or -28 C)

Not to mention that polar Vortex we had (5 years ago I was gone ) , and last year
I know it was like -40 F

I only meet Him Twice , but I am sure Jerry would of let me cross some of his trees
He was so close (unfortunately None of my A Parviflora where any good seeds)

I mean't to say Bad tasting fruit Make better wine
Not in reference to my Asimina Triloba, and parviflora cross idea
, but to try to breed bitter tasting fruit Intentionally
(some people do like em Black, and bitter I like bitter , bt they taste like Burn't Marshmallow to be
Kinda like hop tea boiled to long, but hey does well in beer (I'm no beer IPA maker (yet) just like bitter tea )

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« on: October 14, 2019, 03:56:26 PM »
I know Jerry Lehman before He passed Crossed them (dwarf)
He said He tore the Parviflora Out , He was trying to keep his seeds as (I mena Open pollinated As best as posible , and didn't want Him selected ones getting Any Parviflora )

Cliff England has some seeds

I am not certain what to se as the Mother plant
As I am just experimenting (and it has been a while since I've read up Sometimes It sticks in your head better when you do it)
I was suppose to travel this year to breed somewhere. (I have good Intuition )

I would cross though A with B = c (the Offspring)

Take c the baby  , and back cross it with A or B

Year One
I may even Take Asimina Triloba As a Mother (get ) C from pollen from A. Parviflora
----------Take Asimina Parviflora As a Mother (get)  c from pollen from A. triloba
the resulting Cc hybrids with different mothers (as pollen donors) cross those, and see what happens

I am not certain , but I also have some other Idea's , (but they are pretty out there)
 , but why not , and just grow them in the firest for the fun of it.

Like take the seediest Type, and cross with the seediest type
back cross with the first seedy type

Maybe Nature would revert back to a Non seedy type
Or maybe it would be useful for something other then fruit (like root stock)
(bad tasting fruit does make better wine, and liquor however -- So maybe breed bad fruit)

There is a book online (free 100 years old)
that states when a plants population is being polluted with the same pollen
IN breeding I mean through many generations

The offspring will eventually Completely change around
it's Natures way of having Genetic diversity
(It was about persimmons though.)

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Another prickly pear selection
« on: October 14, 2019, 02:50:54 PM »
I forgot  Big-rooted Prickly Pear (Opuntia macrorhiza)

USDA says In IL, and Minesota too all the way North
Haven't read that site for a while, and getting offline.

I think a lady on freecycle gave me one of those bigger padded ones ,
but didn't want in garden anymore, and (was Lazy)never transplanted anywhere after..
they'll come back even if stored all shriveled up like completely dry though hahah

Is there any where You can buy some of these fruits from these cultivars?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Another prickly pear selection
« on: October 14, 2019, 02:20:22 PM »
I mean do you know if these fruit the same In Memphis as they do In California
The ones in NOLA didn't taste as good on the ground.

I'd Go and pick some stalks
(?n ot to sound to sweet I'd want some from t hat bush myself anyways)

If you'd want to see what happens with em

Not sure anytime soon as it is persimmon season, and trying to find my own varieties (of those in the wild)
but have a week off work every other week.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Another prickly pear selection
« on: October 14, 2019, 02:18:19 PM »
(DISCLAIMER) I know Nothing of Optunia Cultivars Only wht I ate at the Grocery store.

I found a very sweet one In Memphis At a Mexican Resturant
Very Soft, and gooey.

I was traveling through Memphis On my way To New orleans,
 and a mexican resturant Had one Out side in a outside Planter

maybe the owners Selected It I am not sure

I was Full of typical garbage though Bottles wrappers etc So I'm not certain
I did get a grocery bag full.

What time do these Fruit ?  I  tried Email (megabus Recite isn't there)

By the way We Have to Native ones In IL.
Eastern Prickly pear
Opuntia humifusa

Brittle Prickly Pear
Opuntia fragilis
Opuntia fragilis

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Florida Persimmon 30 chromosomes
« on: October 13, 2019, 04:11:38 AM »

Oops wrong link Modifying days later

Mistakenly Posted the wrong link

If someone reads My original message , they will see the correct link on my original post,
because  these things can be read years later.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Greenhouse heating invention
« on: October 12, 2019, 01:37:14 PM »
the stove will be a small rocket stove made from ytong bricks and the stratification chamber will be a stainless steel beer barrel.

I looked up stratification chamber after I posted

Cool like that old trick where you make smoke go downwards
you take a Cigarette Cellophane half way off the pack
roll a piece of paper off the pack
Burn whole in Cellophane with rolled up paper  ,
and watch as you poke it through smoke goes down like a water fall.

I no longer smoke but still cool.

You think about getting a Heat cable or generator
just in case anything goes wrong

I know you said wouldn't use solar , but a hybrid system could be useful
running a trail with zeolite wouldn't be bad on one pipe it's cheap.

I did forget (my brother mentioned ) Soapstone for heat Transfer .
I will try to find some links I have buried.

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