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Messages - SoCal2warm

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26
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Dwarf pomegranate that doesn't suck?
« on: April 08, 2019, 11:55:24 AM »
I want to the fruits (whatever size they are) to be eating quality.
Dwarf pomegranates were not bred for eating quality.

There are a few varieties that have a more "dwarfed" growing habit but they are not dwarfed anywhere near to the extent of dwarf pomegranates.

27
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: How hardy is TaiTri?
« on: April 08, 2019, 11:03:40 AM »
How hardy is TaiTri?
I can't comment about TaiTri, but can share this about Taiwanica.

On April 5 (2019 ) I talked to Nat Bradford. He used to live in Seneca, South Carolina, which he insisted is zone 7a. (I'm looking at a USDA hardiness map and Seneca appears to be listed as being on the border of zone 8a/7b though, but I pressed him on this point at he was adamant that the location was definitely not in zone 8 )
He said he grew a Taiwanica lemon and an C. ichangensis outside there unprotected, and they have survived for 7 years. At one point he says the temperature got down to 4 F. He says his Taiwanica lemon survived all this time. I specifically asked if it had survived the freeze in 2017-2018, and he said yes, he had gone back to the property and saw the tree was still there, even though he doesn't live there anymore. The Taiwanica was grown from a seedling and is not grafted. He initially grew them in one gallon pots and left them outside, they survived. Then he eventually planted them out into the ground.
The C. ichangensis has lost leaves and the leaves have turned yellow-brown every Winter, but he says the Taiwanica did not lose leaves.

I was very surprised to hear this.

His Tiwanica has fruited, but he says his C. ichangensis never set flowers.

I also asked how his hardy citrus hybridization attempts have been going, and he said he's been busy and has a few seedlings from his Taiwanica, but nothing else besides that.

This is the same Nat Bradford whose name is connected to the Bradford watermelon, once a famous heirloom variety in the South, and he did an internship at Longwood Gardens in Pennsylvania.


Since TaiTri is a hybrid between Taiwanica and trifoliate, I think we can assume this implies something about its hardiness.

28
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Dwarf pomegranate that doesn't suck?
« on: April 08, 2019, 12:15:31 AM »
Nope, sorry, that's kind of the definition of a "dwarf pomegranate". You get tiny dwarf fruits.

However, the variety Parfianka (as well as many other hardy Russian varieties) grows to be smaller than most.

You can of course use skilled pruning to keep the bush as small as you want, as long as you are sure to keep up pruning every year.

29
Cold Hardy Citrus / Hardy citrus on other rootstocks
« on: April 06, 2019, 10:02:12 PM »
We know about hardy citrus on trifoliate and Flying Dragon trifoliate rootstock, but how much do we know about hardy citrus on other trifoliate hybrid rootstocks?

How do you think hardy citrus would do on Tai-tri or US 852 (Changsha x trifoliate) ?

30
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: April 06, 2019, 06:36:26 PM »
Bloomsweet, with the cover just removed today:



We had a brief period of light hail (almost like half rain, half hail) this morning but it wasn't that cold, the temperatures were still well above freezing.

31
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichang and Tiwanica lemon
« on: April 06, 2019, 04:31:26 PM »
Sorry but it is not Tiwanica but taiwanica, ever heard of Taiwan?  :)
Spelling mistake on my part.

Ichang lemon is not at all Citrus ichangensis !!!
I am aware of that, but since C. ichangensis was part of the story I thought I would share that. Especially to show how Taiwanica did side by side compared to ichangensis.

32
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Graft chimeras and hardy citrus
« on: April 05, 2019, 09:02:44 PM »
I've been looking at some interesting papers and studies that postulate that "messenger RNA" from one group of cells in a graft chimera can be transferred to the other group of cells and affect gene expression in those other cells. The two different cells may have different genetics but they may act similar in the graft chimera system.

Also chloroplast genes may be able to shuffle between different cells. (Chloroplasts are the part of the plant cell that converts light to energy, and contain their own set of genes separate from the cell nucleus)

33
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichang and Tiwanica lemon
« on: April 05, 2019, 05:49:37 PM »
I just talked to Nat Bradford. He used to live in Seneca, South Carolina, which he insisted is zone 7a. (I'm looking at a USDA hardiness map and Seneca appears to be listed as being on the border of zone 8a/7b though, but I pressed him on this point at he was adamant that the location was definitely not in zone 8 )
He said he grew a Tiwanica lemon and an C. ichangensis outside there unprotected, and they have survived for 7 years. At one point he says the temperature got down to 4 F. He says his Tiwanica lemon survived all this time. I specifically asked if it had survived the freeze in 2017-2018, and he said yes, he had gone back to the property and saw the tree was still there, even though he doesn't live there anymore. The Tiwanica was grown from a seedling and is not grafted. He initially grew them in one gallon pots and left them outside, they survived. Then he eventually planted them out into the ground.
The C. ichangensis has lost leaves and the leaves have turned yellow-brown every Winter, but he says the Tiwanica did not lose leaves.

I was very surprised to hear this.

His Tiwanica has fruited, but he says his C. ichangensis never set flowers.

I also asked how his hardy citrus hybridization attempts have been going, and he said he's been busy and has a few seedlings from his Tiwanica, but nothing else besides that.

This is the same Nat Bradford whose name is connected to the Bradford watermelon (once a famous heirloom variety in the South), and he did an internship at Longwood Gardens in Pennsylvania.

34
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: April 04, 2019, 03:30:17 PM »
Some updates

Yuzu


Bloomsweet (still inside cover)


Dunstan citrumelo


Satsuma mandarin (was under a cover during the Winter)


Ten Degree Tangerine


I believe the lowest temperature this was exposed to was 14 F.

35
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: a few pictures from the Pacific Northwest
« on: April 03, 2019, 02:58:36 PM »
Bloom on Bloomsweet grapefruit


but it doesn't smell like grapefruit blossoms, it smells more like the blossoms of sour orange, with a hint of bergamot and pomelo blossom.

36
Have you tried Dekopon before?

(I find them to be very sweet and overly rich, almost slight mango flavor, but makes a great snack food for a paper bag lunch, kind of like an orange that is easier to peel. Personally I still prefer Shasta Gold though)

37
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-COLD-HARDY-Lemon-Ichang-Lemon-Hardy-to-around-20-F-10-fresh-seeds-/182980464253
I don't know if a seller from Romania can be trusted, however

The seeds are likely not going to germinate unless they're harvested from fresh fruits

38
Cold Hardy Citrus / trying to root C. ichangensis
« on: April 03, 2019, 01:31:21 AM »









39
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: April 02, 2019, 09:30:29 PM »
I don't have numbers, but Taitri has had very few polyembryonic seeds. 
Of the three Taitri seedlings that sprouted for me, one of the seeds had two seedlings sprout from it.

40
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: April 02, 2019, 09:27:25 PM »
Where I am (Olympia, WA zone 8a) I've found that it is not really safe to bring citrus seedlings outside (even hardy varieties that have been growing inside) until the second half of March.
It is different in different places. Places like Minnesota and Massachusetts can have later Spring frosts.

41
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: April 02, 2019, 06:22:57 PM »


C. ichangensis

Portland, OR

It's been pruned, it was much bushier the last time I saw it.

leaves have a nice fragrance in the moist air, reminiscent of Yuzu, but more lemony, light, and without the spicy smell of petitgrain.

42
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Growing citrus in pots
« on: April 01, 2019, 10:50:44 PM »
Citrus roots like to be [moderately] dried out in periodic intervals. The trick is to cycle the moisture level between wet and dry, while staying within a certain range, never letting the soil become either completely parched or waterlogged.

43
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Strange Red Clementine Seedling
« on: April 01, 2019, 10:47:24 PM »
I'd suggest digging a shallow crater around that tree for watering purposes and laying some mulch to prevent evaporation and keep the soil moist without having to overwater.

44
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: April 01, 2019, 09:17:38 PM »
Rare lemon harvest in Vancouver

Greg Neal, mechanic by profession, fruit-grower by hobby, is getting set to harvest 70 lemons from his yard in Lynn Valley.
"A few people come by to see it and most people are quite surprised," said Neal.
He planted a Meyer lemon tree about 10 years ago in his front yard in "a bit of a micro climate" that faces south/southeast and takes advantage of heat that comes off the house, and the tree has grown to three metres by three metres.

"Anyone with a tree in a south-facing or west-facing yard with a wall and an overhang to give it a little extra heat can grow citrus fruit," Duncan said.
Both he and Neal protect their trees from the winter cold and rain by covering them with a special breathable tarp that lets sun in. They add a little warmth with a string of old-fashioned Christmas lights under the tarp.

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/rare-lemon-harvest-in-vancouver

45
Here's a picture of the two mangosteen plants in fabric containers so you can see how much they have (or have not) grown. (Two months have passed since the last picture)

They are lightly watered every couple of days, plenty of root space now. Gradually growing, but growth rate is very slow by the standards of any other plants. Temperature still being held at constant 77-79 degrees F.

Here's G. hombriana growing besides G. mangostana in the same container so you can see the comparative growth rates. Obviously G. hombriana grows a lot faster and more vigorous.


46
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Some rare variety hardy seedlings
« on: March 31, 2019, 10:41:18 PM »
Thomasville citrangequat seedling again:



It might turn out to have non-trifoliate foliage.

this came from a seed from a fruit that Eyeckr sent me
The fruit actually tasted better than I was expecting, I didn't really seem to detect any trifoliate aftertaste, and it was a nice size fruit, there was only one seed in the fruit. The rind was maybe only a little less edible than calamondin.

47
the C. ichangensis x kumquat hybrid seedlings again:

They grow so fast!

these came from seeds from Ilya

48
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: March 31, 2019, 05:44:12 PM »
Here are two Yuzu plants in containers that survived through the Winter in a greenhouse. The greenhouse had a lot of cracks and openings in the roof, and just a few days after the coldest part of Winter the roof collapsed under the weight of snow so there was practically no roof covering. I would consider these two plants inside practically exposed.

As you can see, one still has plenty of green leaves (slightly yellow in hue), while the other is practically defoliated but still obviously alive. I suspect this shows what a difference rootstock can make, I suspect the defoliated one is on a less hardy rootstock than the other. (They didn't come from the same nursery, and the nursery that the defoliated one came from is not in a cold climate so they probably had no reason to put it on trifoliate rootstock).

I find it remarkable that this Yuzu could survive in a container, through the Winter, and still come out looking good. It's just a standard 5 gallon container.


49
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: March 30, 2019, 06:49:10 PM »
Socal, you're comments on the cool Mediterranean climate are generally spot on, though you could argue that Bremerton and maybe Sequim- in the rain shadow of the Olympics- may also qualify, even though they are further north than Olympia.
You certainly could argue that but I would disagree (although it may just be my own bias). Yes, it is true they can be sunny and without precipitation during that season, but they are both cooler areas and do not get quite as hot. It's not the same sort of dry and parched that you get when things are hot, there is still some moisture in the soil and humid, relatively cool, air that does not suck out too much moisture or have too much of a drying effect.

I just don't envission those two to be really Meditterranean climates (although lavender does grow great there).

I suppose it's somewhat of a spectrum. I just envission Olympia being a little closer to a true Meditteranean climate than further North, even though Olympia isn't exactly a true Meditteranean climate.

Certainly, my grandparents had no problems growing figs at the Byrmryna  Fig orchard on Vashon island- located halfway between Seattle and Tacoma- during the 1930's, 40's and 50's,
I see some big fig trees in people's yards here, and the fig fruits can get very big. One of the fruits I bit into and it had a hollow space inside big enough to fit a lychee fruit inside there (between the size of a Walnut and a cherry).

Because the Puget Sound area has about 30% fewer growing degree days than SW Washington and the Williamette Valley, ripening in the Olympia area may not be quite so robust, except perhaps in sheltered microclimate, without artificial enhancement.
The Tri-Cities area may be a good region to try growing hardy citrus in.

50
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: March 30, 2019, 03:49:52 PM »
Yuzu seedling



No longer has any leaves but the bottom stem is still green.

actually I think I see one tiny leaf that's still green caught between the stems, but it just looks so-so.

It's a very small seedling. So basically the top stems died back but the very bottom trunk (if you can call it that) is still green.

April 1



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