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Messages - SoCal2warm

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Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichangensis froze to death, then bloomed.
« on: June 15, 2020, 08:58:30 PM »
The leaves shown in Citradia's picture look more like Ichang lemon than Ichang papeda.

Citradia, it's possible that may not be a real C. ichangensis, and if it did indeed come from a real ichangensis, maybe it got pollinated by something else and you may now have an interesting new hybrid.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichangensis froze to death, then bloomed.
« on: June 15, 2020, 08:40:58 PM »
The one I have has leaves that look similar to the one in Socal2warm' picture, but, as I noticed, young leaves has never had the dark purple color.
That could possibly be due to the climate here. Even as of June 15, the temperature in the middle of the day today (5:00) is still only 62 degrees (F).

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichangensis froze to death, then bloomed.
« on: June 15, 2020, 07:05:33 PM »
I planted a 5 inch tall ichangensis, growing on its own roots (not grafted that is, grew it from a cutting), in Olympia, WA (zone 8a) and it survived through this winter.

Here is a picture of it now:

The dark reddish leaves are new growth.

(also it was not covered or protected)

You might notice that even though it is June, the new leaf growth is still red colored, since temperatures do not start rising enough for citrus to put out growth until fairly late in the year here.

Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Cold Hardy Citrus in Ga?
« on: June 07, 2020, 11:59:19 PM »
You might try Loch Laurel Nursery (in Valdosta). He mostly focuses on camellias but he has some hardy citrus as well, you could go ask him.

Citrus General Discussion / Quadrifoliate poncirus
« on: June 07, 2020, 11:25:01 PM »
An acquaintance posted this in another forum.

"Quadrifoliate" poncirus, poncirus leaves with four lobes instead of the normal three.

It's growing on a sucker.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: June 07, 2020, 04:12:42 PM »

The new leaves of the Bloomsweet have grown much bigger now, and there appears to be a new rapidly growing branch offshoot at the top.


Dunstan citrumelo

Both the Yuzu and Citrumelo are really taking off, lots of growth. They will probably get to be a very large bush size very soon.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: June 04, 2020, 08:13:53 PM »
Little Ichang papeda seedling putting out some new leaf growth, darker reddish color

seedling is only five inches high, growing on own roots, not grafted, survived in the ground through the winter

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Growing rare cold-hardy hybrid
« on: June 04, 2020, 08:06:11 PM »
Whatever it is, it's recovering and beginning to put out new leaves.

To the right in the picture, off to the side, you can see an Ichang Lemon for comparison.
Whatever this thing is, it definitely appears not to be as hardy as Yuzu, and less hardy than Ichang Lemon. But it does appear to have survived.

From the intermediate level of hardiness this demonstrated, I feel fairly confident the nursery did not simply make a mix up with some other common citrus variety, or another common hardy citrus variety.

I'm thinking this could have promise if it was crossed again with some other hardy variety.

Edit: On second thought, I'm not so sure. Even my Valencia Orange and Reinking pomelo seedlings, that were left out on the patio over the winter, are beginning to put out some new leaf growth.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma Problem
« on: June 03, 2020, 02:19:35 PM »
The picture of the leaf with yellow veins indicates a possible nitrogen deficiency.
The plant may have overgrown the size of the container. You might need to move up to a larger container for more adequate root space.

Arctic Frost may be more sensitive because this particular variety is often sold growing on its own roots (a rarity for citrus).

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: May 29, 2020, 02:14:05 PM »
Getting fruit to ripen is an additional hurdle to clear toward the goal developing edible cold-hardy Citrus. Developing acid cultivars should be considerably easier than sweet ones. In northern regions Summers are often either too cool, or too short to accumulate adequate sugars.
Well, the length of summer heat is certainly shorter than it is in other parts of the country, with the temperature being cool to cold throughout much of the year, but there certainly is plenty of heat here during the height of Summer. I feel like there are some unique factors going both for and against, in this climate.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: May 28, 2020, 09:17:23 PM »
The new leaves on the Bloomsweet are really putting on some growth.

The Yuzu, Changsha, and Dunstan citrumelo are really taking off.
It's 81 degrees (F) right now and humid, feels like a jungle.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: May 21, 2020, 08:17:48 PM »
Yuzu seedling, growing on own roots

growing very well now, lots of darker new leaves, and the old leaves look fairly healthy too.

May 21

Mangosteen generally has poor compatibility and will not survive very long on any other garcinia except Hombriana, as far as I am aware.
Even grafting can be difficult; approach grafting is the usual way to go.

There are other discussions about this, go look for them.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: May 15, 2020, 10:14:29 PM »
The Yuzu and Changsha (both grafted rootstock) are also both doing well and have sent out lots of new leaves.



May 15

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: May 15, 2020, 10:02:03 PM »
Bloomsweet, the new leaves are getting bigger, I really think it's going to do well this year

Ichangquat, old leaves greening up now, but I still don't see any new leaf growth. (seedling is growing on own roots)

Ichang papeda, small sized on own roots, slowly greening up, but I still would not say it looks like a healthy green color. you can't see it in the picture but this seedling is just beginning to put out new bud/leaflet growth. plant is 5 inches high

The other Ichang papeda on grafted rootstock and a little bit bigger in size (not pictured) is already beginning to send out new leaves, dark reddish in color.

tiny Keraji seedling, only 2 and a half inches tall, on own roots, it's an okay green color hue, hopefully it can start growing later and maybe recover. It still isn't quite as big as when it was planted 2 years ago, before it froze and died back to the ground that cold first cold winter. It wasn't protected this winter.

Dunstan citrumelo, it's doing well, held onto all its leaves through this winter, a little more than 2 and a half feet tall now.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: May 15, 2020, 09:09:19 PM »
Millet, I have a rooted cutting than I stuck in the ground to see if survives our long Arctic blasts on it's own roots.  Most citrus don't survive such events on their own roots when the ground freezes solid to a depth of 15 inches after two weeks when the temperature never rises above freezing.  Only Poncirus Trifoliata and its twisted sister Flying Dragon survive without a foot of mulch.   I'll post the outcome after the next Artic Outbreak.  It has easily survived our long wet winters without apparent root rot.
Well, jim VH, just a correction but as you know I'm two hours north of you and I've had several relatively small seedlings on their own roots that survived through this winter. (hardy citrus varieties that didn't have poncirus in their ancestry)
I'm thinking perhaps you refer to the colder winters that come along once every several years.
Because obviously I don't think I've ever experienced the ground freezing hard down to 15 inches where I am here.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: May 11, 2020, 09:21:08 PM »
Yes, they're in active growth as are many other trees. Peaches appear to be a total loss for the year.
Well, there is a reason peaches were considered a Southern crop and not something for Pennsylvania.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Shiranui at CCPP is very seedy?
« on: May 10, 2020, 11:14:44 PM »
It's possible it has more seeds because of lots of surrounding pollination from other varieties.

Fruit trees grown from seed (or grown on their own roots) usually take many years longer before they begin producing fruit, and this is especially the case with pomelos.
The reason is not that difficult to imagine if you think about it. In the wild, pomelo trees naturally growing on their own roots can get very large, so they are still in their juvenile stage and focusing mostly on growing bigger even when they are a very large size.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: May 07, 2020, 05:04:37 PM »
Ichangquat seedling

Bloomsweet, putting out more leaf growth now

May 7

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Australian Desert Lime hardy to -11f?
« on: May 02, 2020, 06:46:12 PM »
On an old forum there was speculation that there was a mistake about hardiness, possibly because of confusion between degrees F and C, and that the mistake had been copied.
That thought had crossed my mind as well, and that seems very plausible. -11 C is about 12 degrees F.
especially since in Australia they would presume "degrees" would imply Celsius.
12 F is very close to around what many other hardy citrus in this category are rated at. I think that's about the same level as Keraji.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Spaneet citrange?
« on: May 01, 2020, 09:08:14 PM »
Apparently it's grouped with citranges.

Citrus Pages has this entry about it:
"The fruit of Spaneet is similar to Willits with is rough and deeply corrugated surface. Ripe fruit have a deep reddish orange rind colour like Rusk. Spaneet has very few seeds and is vigorous and productive."

The majority of the leaves in the picture appear to be normal monofoliate, although there appear to be signs on a few of the leaves that it's a trifoliate hybrid.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Growing rare cold-hardy hybrid
« on: May 01, 2020, 06:07:32 PM »
May 1, 2020

I can provide an update now.

I left the tree right outside on my back patio over the winter, in a container, right next to an Ichang Lemon and Bloomsweet. For comparison, the Ichang Lemon and the Bloomsweet look great, nice healthy pretty green looking leaves that were kept throughout the winter, and have gradually continued to only green up a little bit more. (note to avoid any confusion: this is Ichang lemon, not Ichang papeda)

The "MIC" plant, however, does not look so good. The leaves are all very pale and white, and they will certainly drop. The stem of the plant is an unhealthy yellowish-green, unlike almost all my other hardy citrus varieties.

But I do see the beginnings of new growth buds coming out of the tips of the branches.

To be fair, I also have a small Valencia orange seedling that was left out there too, and it looks pretty similar, and looking very closely I can also spot the tiniest little starts of new buds on it. So these observations don't really prove this "MIC" is any better than a Valencia orange (which is not very hardy variety itself).

The one that I had previously planted in the ground was not able to survive the 2018-2019 winter, but that was a much colder winter than usual, with lots of snow which is unusual in this area. (Pacific Northwest, Olympia, WA, climate zone 8a)
Even though I did cover it with a paper grocery bag and 2 gallon bottles of warm water under there on the coldest night.

So this "MIC" hybrid, or at least whatever I was sent when I ordered 3 of them from the nursery, is not looking too promising.

And yes, it was specifically sold as hardy citrus, and obviously on rootstock, which I can only assume was poncirus or Flying Dragon.
(the nursery was far north of normal citrus territory, so certainly they would know all their customers would need hardy rootstock)

I guess with trials and experiments, we need to be able to deal with some disappointments.

This might come to your interest:
"It is well established that cold hardening occurs in citrus that
has been exposed to cool but not freezing conditions preceding
a freeze event (reviewed in Yelenosky, 1985)"
Well, that's very interesting, but I'm in the Pacific Northwest, and with the unique climate conditions here, the plants are definitely exposed to long periods of cold cool before it ever goes below freezing. Cold snaps are very rare also, because it typically takes a very long time into the year for temperatures to begin to consistently warm up. None of the hardy citrus has begun to bud out until just about now. Certainly temperatures throughout the winter and into early Spring remain below the temperatures needed for citrus to put on any growth.
This is reflected in the chill hour accumulation, we actually have 3400 chill hours (no that's not a misprint) due to temperatures remaining so constantly cool for so long.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Australian Desert Lime hardy to -11f?
« on: May 01, 2020, 04:48:47 PM »
That obviously seems insane, but it would explain why the "razzlequat" or Eremolemon grows outside in Southern Oregon at the house that used to belong to the Oregon Exotics Nursery owners. It's zone 8a, gets into the low teens regularly in winter.
Um, I hate to burst your bubble, but I've talked to the owner of Cistus nursery, which is on a fairly big island right along the river in Portland, right outside the city, the outlying area and the island is pretty rural, and he's told me that a Satsuma mandarin has survived outside in the ground for him and fruited. This is in climate zone 8a, more likely 8b because his location is right in proximity to the river, on all sides.
(And it's also worth pointing out it probably gets a lot of shelter from the wind because the nursery is a virtual jungle, with densely planted shrubs and tall plants everywhere)

Jim VH (member in this forum) also observed that his Early St Ann Satsuma (had grown into a big size) survived unprotected this winter (the first time it was left unprotected) in his residential suburban neighborhood just north of Portland in Vancouver, WA, and probably would have fruited from the looks of it, but he chopped it down and took the tree out in March.

I know Southern Oregon can maybe get a very tiny bit colder in the winter, but the fact that a Razzlequat was able to survive there is not really a huge demonstration of its hardiness. (Also the coast of Southern Oregon is a whole different story, some people say they can grow Meyer lemons there)

I'm sure Razzlequat is hardier than Satsuma, of course.

This is entirely from memory, so this could be totally wrong, and I am definitely not certain of this, but I remember from prior research I did, looking at people's reports in other forums, I strongly came away with the impression that Australian Desert Lime probably had around the same level of cold hardiness as Satsuma mandarins, perhaps a little more or a little less. I also remember looking up the climate zone information about where Australian Desert lime in indigenous to (which is certainly no clear indication either, usually citrus species can survive a bit more cold than the part of the world they came from).
It's probably worth looking into and doing more trials, but I highly doubt Desert Lime is close to being in the same league as species like Ichang papeda.

That being said, one of the notable things about Australian Desert Lime is its drought tolerance, it can probably survive better through periods of little water and hot dry conditions than any other citrus species.
(I'm thinking this attribute could possibly make its hybrids useful for low-maintenance ornamentals in public areas)

I would also guess that even if it did survive through a low temperature point, that period of time was very short. The conditions in deserts tend to be very different from temperate places further north. Due to lack of moisture or any nearby bodies of water to moderate temperature, it is easier for there to be sudden temperature swings. There's a big difference between going down to -11 F for just 20 or 30 minutes, versus going down to -11 F amidst a 24-hour period where the temperatures have remained well below freezing.
Maybe it is capable of surviving -11 F but suffers extensive damage at that point and is then later is able to quickly regrow and recover.

This post is mostly speculation, of course, I don't grow Desert Lime or Razzlequat, and I really don't know.
Good post, by the way.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: NYC Citrus
« on: April 30, 2020, 12:39:33 AM »
My Dunstan did not lose its leaves over the winter.
The winter before that, when it was very cold, the leaves fell off after suffering damage from the early February snowstorm (when it may have gotten down to 12 or 14 degrees, and stayed slightly below freezing for almost a whole day, even though I covered it during the coldest night) but strangely the winged petiole part of the leaves (at the base of the leaf) stayed on and did not drop off, and was still somewhat green when things finally began to warm up months later.

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