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Messages - SoCal2warm

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Citrus General Discussion / Re: Oroblanco
« on: November 04, 2018, 11:14:58 PM »
Here's one of the seedlings of Oroblanco I grew:

It could be a nucellar seed (exact genetic copy of its parent, in which case it would be triploid) or it could be a zygotic diploid (in which case when it eventually fruits the fruits will be full of many seeds, no longer "seedless"). From the research I've read, specifically relating to the variety Oroblanco, I gather that the chances are probably about 50-50 .

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Name game
« on: November 04, 2018, 08:59:13 PM »
Yuzu itself has no direct relationship to C.ichangensis, it is not an ichandarin.
I would disagree. It's true Yuzu is not a direct cross from C. ichangensis, but it very likely was naturalized (in China) from ichangensis (or a similar ichangensis-like papeda that is no longer extant). Genetic marker studies have consistently found that Yuzu clusters very closely to ichangensis.

The fact that the seeds in Yuzu are mostly nucellar is also indicative (but does not prove) that it arose from hybridization rather than being an original species.
[or I should say more recent hybridization on the evolutionary timescale]

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Name game
« on: November 03, 2018, 08:05:35 PM »
Well, citradia isn't such a good name in the first place.

One more to add:
Meyer lemon x poncirus = Citremon

Yuzu is considered an "Ichandarin"

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: N1triVoss
« on: November 03, 2018, 03:21:51 PM »
The photos show well the problem. It is not the green parts like in other citrus, it is the bark of old branches that split.
And it depends very much on the sap state. Some years it can look very hardy and some years it is very week.
One of my N1tri is much bigger than yours and this year it lost half of its branches by cork splitting.
This winter was very mild but we had -8įC (17įF) at the end of february. It nearly killed the tall N1tri but did nothing to the small ones that still have green branches.

This is why some people say it is hardy and some say it is not.
Perhaps you could wrap the older thicker branches in insulation. Plastic bubble wrap.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Oroblanco
« on: November 02, 2018, 02:56:01 AM »
Did yours fruit?
No, right now they are just seedlings. But I have no reason to suspect they won't eventually fruit.
They're growing very well I might add.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Oroblanco
« on: November 01, 2018, 03:43:48 PM »
Although considered "seedless", Oroblanco often produces two or three seeds. I've grown a couple of Oroblanco seedlings.

From the research I've been able to dig up, I am led to believe about half the seedlings are nucellar (identical to fruit parent), while about the other half will turn out to be diploids (basically similar to their parents or parent except it will no longer be a seedless variety.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Parentage of a hybrid?
« on: November 01, 2018, 12:12:32 AM »
When citrange was first being developed, they pollinated orange with trifoliate pollen and then grew 1000 seedlings. Only 4 of those seedlings displayed trifoliate leaves.

It's not implausibe that a few of the other seedlings might have been hybrids, but for practical purposes they couldn't grow out all 1000 seedlings to wait to see.


I just replanted two of the mangosteens into larger fabric containers, hoping they will do better.

Maybe more soil volume will help prevent the soil from drying out and give the sensitive root system more room to expand. The fabric container is breathable so will allow more air into the soil to prevent root rot from excessive moisture.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
« on: October 30, 2018, 02:01:48 AM »
Something I want to mention here, just because a graft survives doesn't mean it's graft compatible. Sometimes grafting incompatibilities can show up later, a year or two later. It is believed this may likely be due to differing grow rates between the two, and this type of delayed graft incompatibility is particularly common when the scion (top part) is the one that has a slower growth rate. Then the base variety has a tendency to overgrow the graft, and the grafted part isn't able to draw much energy out of the tree because most of the energy is being diverted to natural growth coming out of the rootstock variety.

Even if survival is long-term, it may still not be considered "graft compatible". The tree could be heavily dwarfed or stunted, and may not be the healthiest or grow the most vigorously. This could potentially affect fruit set.

Usually heavy dwarfing has an effect of inducing early precociousness (fruits, or more fruits begin growing early in the tree's juvenile lifespan), but if the dwarfing is severe enough that it is stunting growth, there could be the reverse effect.

Yuzu does not come true from seed.
I think it does 98 percent of the time, but I may be mistaken.
I found a source stating the seeds in Yuzu were nucellar.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Femminello Sfusato
« on: October 29, 2018, 04:13:07 AM »
These giant lemons look like they may have more citron ancestry in them. And not sure if this is at all applicable here but I will point out just a few of these traditional citron varieties are actually pomelo-citron hybrids (so that could possibly have implications about where these larger lemons were bred from).

I might mention the connection to Ponderossa lemon, which can get pretty big in size but isn't really the best tasting lemon out there.

I happen to have Giant citron and pomelo, and plan to be doing some hybridization experiments. Perhaps hybridizing the two together with yuzu I might get a large sized lemon with good flavor and more hardiness.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Name that citrus.
« on: October 29, 2018, 12:03:14 AM »
You should contact them. It's likely that they made a mistake.
There are also a few different cultivars of citradia.

The best way to be more certain is to cut it open. Swingle looks a little more grapefruit-like inside (still orange but kind of a pale white-yellow orange). Citradias look a bit more orange-like.

The Yuzu peel and rind (or pith) are kind of interesting. They are more edible and not as bitter as regular citrus, so it's easier to use them in cooking.
Maybe not quite as delicate and tender as kumquat, but close to the level of mandarinquat. Basically all I have to do is cut one open into slices, pop out all the seeds (the seeds are big), then thin dice all the rinds with the pulp still attached and it's fit for putting into a noodle broth.

The market here isn't anywhere near citrus growing territory.
But I see a surprising amount of variety in several of the markets around here. Probably has to do with the culture, the "back to the land" movement around here. It's kind of an unusual area, there's an interesting symbiosis of urban and rural.

I doubt anyone here even realizes it is possible to grow Yuzu outside in this area.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
« on: October 27, 2018, 05:23:00 PM »
The fragrance of Yuzu for me smells like a mixture of Seville Orange (C. aurantium) and lemon, with something a little more pungent/deep about it. The fragrance is mostly in the rind. There's something reminiscent in it of Satsuma mandarin (a slight aromatic terpene or pine-needle like element). The inside has just a little bit of grapefruit in it, with a barely perceptible hint of guava.

Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Wanted: yuzu
« on: October 27, 2018, 02:05:07 AM »
Ok, I have fresh Yuzu seeds available again. only available for the next 4 days


Apparently Haggen is carrying "Yuzu Lemons".
probably only for a short seasonal time

They don't look very ripe, but they are loaded with lots of fresh seeds inside.

Last week they were also carrying Buddha's Hand citron.

Some of you may have seen my thread "Karp's Sweet and other Edible Quinces for Eating Raw"

available: 2 free seeds 

Crimea or Kuganskaya variety. These quince are possible to eat raw, very little or almost no astringency. The fruits are very tart and kind of acidic though.
Quince is kind of an obscure fruit species now. These particular cultivar varieties are even rarer.

You'll probably need to grow the seedlings and then later graft them onto rootstock, if you don't want to be waiting around forever to get fruit.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Growing rare cold-hardy hybrid
« on: October 26, 2018, 07:27:33 PM »
The leaves on my trifoliata trees donít turn yellow nor do my citrumelo or citrange trees. They stay green mostly until they succumb to severe cold, low teens or single digits.
Most of my trees do turn yellow. Then again, most of them are not citrumelo or citrange or anything else that has trifoliate in their ancestry.
(I've kind of been focusing on unusual cold hardy citrus that do not have trifoliate in their ancestry, but that might also mean the leaves are not as adapted to staying green in cool temperatures)

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Growing rare cold-hardy hybrid
« on: October 26, 2018, 12:32:43 AM »
I have kaffir lime who stay outside at 5C and they don't turn pale or yellow.
I believe these are on FD trifoliate rootstock, so that may have something to do with it. The rootstock may be forcing the plant into dormancy.

Although the leaves on my citrumelo have not turned yellow yet. (it's also on rootstock, do not know which type)

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
« on: October 25, 2018, 02:40:41 PM »
So fruit is smaller but juicier.
Well I'm sure there would be more juice if all that space inside wasn't taken up by seeds.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Growing rare cold-hardy hybrid
« on: October 25, 2018, 02:38:16 PM »
I think a seedling should be exposed to cold early to adapt.
That definitely seems to be true. Leaves and stems that have grown under warm (and humid) conditions inside do not seem to be to tolerate being outside.
I speculate that the plant tissue somehow becomes permanently adapted to the conditions it grew under.
Bringing it inside under optimal conditions is a great way to accelerate growth, but then all this new growth on the plant does not seem to be able to survive well outside, so there's a big setback when it is finally moved outside. In the Summer here, the outside air is much drier, while much of the rest of the year experiences cold/cooler temperatures especially at night.

The foliage seems to be light  green, is this a trait or deficiency?
The tree was left outside and the leaves had begun turning yellow due to cooling night temperatures, so it was finally brought in.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Growing rare cold-hardy hybrid
« on: October 25, 2018, 02:31:43 AM »
here's the other one growing inside

it seems to have a fairly vigorous growth rate

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Todayís Harvest from the orchard
« on: October 21, 2018, 02:44:32 PM »
Iíve never tried Quince before but I think I may have seen some marmalade made with it at the Asian markets.
This quince I showed a picture of is totally different from regular quince. A normal quince is not something you would want to eat raw.

Cooked, however, a few slices of regular quince go well with vanilla icecream. The flavor is pungently deep, almost like cough syrup, and like a very tart intense heirloom apple, some people perceive a slight caramel aroma. Using a ratio of 40% quince to 60% apple also goes well in an apple pie, and then you don't have to use any added thickener in the filling. It will give the apple pie a more intense flavor.

It also of course makes a good preserve spread. Long ago the original marmalade was made out of quince before the sour orange was brought to Europe. I think some of the best jam in the world is boysenberry-quince (and again because of the quince you don't have to add pectin if you make it).

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