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Messages - SoCal2warm

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Citrus General Discussion / Re: Indoor Citrus Grow Tent Problems
« on: December 28, 2019, 02:45:16 AM »
It's a common problem people not realizing that their plant needs a bigger container.
The amount of root space should roughly match the upper size of the plant. Root issues can easily show up in the health of the leaves.

The other thing to realize is that growing inside a grow tent, there will almost always eventually be a spider mite problem.
(It is possible to completely get rid of all spider mites, once and for all, but only after repeated treatments, and it can take a long time, and if you introduce one more plant in there from outside, the problem is very likely to start all over again)

The first thing you should do is inspect the leaves of your plant very carefully to make sure you don't have spider mites. That can cause leaf yellowing.

I find that regular white (5000K) LED bulbs work better than the red/blue grow LEDs, but probably what would theoretically be the most optimal is some combination of the two different types together.

Humidity never seemed to be a problem with my citrus inside grow tents, so long as it was enclosed and the soil was kept from completely drying out. In my experience, I don't think you have to really worry about the humidity. (As long as it is inside the grow tent and enclosed, the tent will hold in humidity)
Temperature can be a little bit of an issue, but only if the ambient temperature inside your house is constantly cold. If you are living there and very often have the heat on in the winter, it shouldn't be an issue. (It's not an issue in this case of hurting the plant, but simply the citrus plant not really growing)

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: December 17, 2019, 01:53:01 AM »
Will the Yuzu seedling have to reach 10 feet tall or more before fruiting?
That's a good question. I'm not totally sure. I think they will begin fruiting on their own roots somewhere between 5 to 7 feet. Yuzu does have a little bit of a natural dwarfed growth habit. Not extremely so, but in Japan the old trees do not get much higher than around 10 or 14 feet.
Of course, in this cooler climate they may have to reach a bigger size until they have enough vigor to fruit.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: December 15, 2019, 07:44:15 PM »
picture of the yuzu seedling, Dec 15, 2019

It's about 14 inches tall now.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: The Story Of Dr. Moy & Cold Hardy Citrus
« on: November 03, 2019, 11:43:34 PM »
I found that my Arctic Frost unfortunately did not survive for me. It was initially growing inside, and may have been transferred outside in the ground too early in March. It suffered some severe die-back. Probably had trouble handling the sudden transition from warm rapid growing conditions to colder outside. It was later able to grow out a green branch one and a half feet long with several big leaves on it, but it did not survive through the winter. I do wonder of course if maybe it had not suffered the die-back in the first place, it might have been in a better position to survive through the following winter. But this does seem to demonstrate to me that Arctic Frost does not seem to demonstrate very clear hardiness to cold in this climate. The plant was also growing on its own roots, and was about 2 feet high when planted outside.

Pacific Northwest, zone 8a.

I know jim VH is growing a big St. Ann Early Satsuma tree 2 hours south of here in Vancouver (across the bridge from Portland) but he puts some light protection over his tree with christmas lights during the winter. He has one Changsha mandarin growing outside next to his house that he doesn't protect, on trifoliate rootstock.

I'm sure Arctic Frost probably does better in other zone 8a climates that are not so far north.

Arctic Frost is not as hardy as Yuzu. My little Yuzu tree survived, though it was on Flying Dragon rootstock. The Yuzu even managed to hold on to slightly less than half its leaves, through the winter, and those leaves eventually recovered.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: My first poncirus marmalade tastes good.
« on: October 29, 2019, 12:02:04 AM »
If you want to be more natural than sure-jell, you can use Quince fruit, preferably Cydonia oblonga, but others can work too. The fruits are very high in pectin so it doesn't take that much.

14 feet tall now, pseudostems are 7 inches thick

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Passe Crassane pear
« on: October 16, 2019, 03:25:07 PM »

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Japan acid citruses
« on: October 09, 2019, 04:45:54 PM »
SoCal2Warm, since I can read and write Japanese to a certain extent, I can confirm that it is NOT call Hanaharu. It is in fact read as Keraji. Japanese can be very confusing at times as there are multiple way of reading the same kanji. Generally speaking, the reading of kanji can be split into Onyomi and Kunyomi. In this case, it is simply read as keraji I hope this clears up any confusion.
Interesting to know. I suspected that.
So there's an alternate way to write "Keraji" in kanji?

Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Cocktail grapefruit
« on: October 06, 2019, 07:46:14 PM »
Cocktail is very sweet but doesn't have so much grapefruit flavor. Some grapefruit fans may be disappointed.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Tiwanica “Nansho Daidai” Lemon Tree (10F)
« on: October 02, 2019, 11:36:36 PM »
That Taiwanica tree in the above pictures has been doing very well at the Georgia Southern University Armstrong campus in Savannah. It's at the corner of Arts Drive and Library Drive outside the Science Center. At least according to the USDA climate map, Savannah is in zone 8b.

In Japan it was traditionally used as an ornamental, sometimes for making vinegar.

The taste is not supposed to be that good, worse than Yuzu, but at least it does not have any awful poncirus flavor.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Tiwanica “Nansho Daidai” Lemon Tree (10F)
« on: October 01, 2019, 09:50:21 PM »
Is there a Taiwanica lemon and a Taiwanica sour orange.
It's the same thing.

Taiwanica is often described as a "lemon" because the skin can oftentimes be yellow, or on the yellowish side, and the fruits are sour. (However it's not a true lemon)
It's probably more similar to sour orange in genotype though, and the fruits definitely can become orange colored hanging on the tree long enough under the right conditions, and they do hang on the tree for a long time.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: October 01, 2019, 08:03:45 PM »
Here are the latest pictures of the Yuzu and Keraji seedlings that are recovering from last winter.


It's a little over 12 inches tall now.


Maybe only one and a half inches high, but many leaves.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
« on: October 01, 2019, 12:59:52 AM »
Should be the wall black in winter and white in summer? That would act as a heat sink during the day and increase temperature few degrees during the night when is cold.
I had that fleeting thought as well, but it would probably increase the heat differential between night and day, probably not such a good thing, we want the plants to seamlessly enter dormancy and not prematurely come out of dormancy.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Tiwanica “Nansho Daidai” Lemon Tree (10F)
« on: September 28, 2019, 07:39:58 PM »
I'm just going to repeat myself, so I think I'll just copy & paste from another thread.

On April 5 (2019 ) I talked to Nat Bradford. He used to live in Seneca, South Carolina, which he insisted is zone 7a. (I'm looking at a USDA hardiness map and Seneca appears to be listed as being on the border of zone 8a/7b though, but I pressed him on this point at he was adamant that the location was definitely not in zone 8 )
He said he grew a Taiwanica lemon and an C. ichangensis outside there unprotected, and they have survived for 7 years. At one point he says the temperature got down to 4 °F. He says his Taiwanica lemon survived all this time. I specifically asked if it had survived the freeze in 2017-2018, and he said yes, he had gone back to the property and saw the tree was still there, even though he doesn't live there anymore. The Taiwanica was grown from a seedling and is not grafted. He initially grew them in one gallon pots and left them outside, they survived. Then he eventually planted them out into the ground.
The C. ichangensis has lost leaves and the leaves have turned yellow-brown every Winter, but he says the Taiwanica did not lose leaves.

I was very surprised to hear this.

His Taiwanica has fruited, but he says his C. ichangensis never set flowers.

I also asked how his hardy citrus hybridization attempts have been going, and he said he's been busy and has a few seedlings from his Taiwanica, but nothing else besides that.

This is the same Nat Bradford whose name is connected to the Bradford watermelon, once a famous heirloom variety in the South, and he did an internship at Longwood Gardens in Pennsylvania.

Kuganskaya fruit

September 25, 2019

They are not fully ripe yet but I already had one. Yes, I could eat it raw, but it was very slightly astringent and seemed to be pretty acidic, so much so that it kind of hurt my teeth. Flavor was about one third pear, one third heirloom apple, and one third something else, unique to quince.
The skin of these edible raw quinces are not as fragrant as other normal quinces.

I think these special quinces would be very good with even the slightest bit of cooking or pan searing with a carmelized sauce.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: September 25, 2019, 02:26:07 PM »
Here's the Bloomsweet

The leaves are looking a healthier green, but unfortunately it is not looking quite as big as it was last year.

I know it doesn't look like much but showing some of these smaller marginal hardiness varieties can help set a good reference point for what is able to survive here.

September 25

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Yuzu lemon question
« on: September 25, 2019, 01:41:45 PM »
This might be useful to you. I just came across this while doing some research and suddenly remembered your unanswered question here.

The Ichandarin 'Liudmila' section on Citrus Pages website (by Jorma Koskinen) says:
"The fruit and taste are quite similar to yuzu but whereas yuzu drops its fruit quite early the fruit of 'Liudmila' stay on for a long time."

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« on: September 25, 2019, 01:33:25 PM »
Here's the thread that contains all the information about Liudmila I was able to compile together.
" ichangensis x Satsuma ? "

For some reason the thread doesn't appear in a search when I type in "Liudmila", so it's probably best I share the link here.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: September 24, 2019, 08:01:29 PM »
I know probably none of you will care, I'm mostly just doing this for my own reference, but here's my tiny little Keraji seedling, now an inch and a half tall.

Of course it isn't much, but it proves how much a tiny little seedling, on its own roots, can regrow after a cold winter and after being killed to the ground.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Daisy Mandarin
« on: September 23, 2019, 09:38:46 PM »
Daisy to me seems to have a tropical mandarin flavor.
It's not my thing, but that's probably just personal preference. I could see how that type of flavor could be appealing to others.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: flying dragon vs trifoliate orange
« on: September 23, 2019, 09:35:51 PM »
Good grief. The thorns in the above pic are contorted/curved ......FLYING DRAGON.
I was not referring to the image immediately above my post. Sorry if that was not made more clear.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Graft chimeras and hardy citrus
« on: September 23, 2019, 03:57:54 PM »
I had a look at jim VH 's Citsuma Prague and I am now strongly inclined to believe this is a chimera.

I've grown many hybrid seedlings, and the leaves will always be either distinctly monofoliate, bifoliate, trifoliate, or sometimes a single leaf might be bifurcated a little bit at the tip, so a form of conjoined bifoliate. The leaf growth generally makes a distinct decision whether any particular leaf is going to be monofoliate or trifoliate.

But the Citsuma Prague leaves I saw, when the leaves were trifoliate, they were all merged together into a single leaf, as if the leaf growth did not have a clear signal whether to be trifoliate or monofoliate, it was a mix of both together on each leaf. Like a compound trifoliate.
Also some of the branches seemed to display mostly monofoliate leaves while other branches displayed mostly the compound trifoliate leaves.
I have not noticed this pattern on my other hybrid seedlings, the distribution of different shaped leaves mostly appears to be random.

I am not an expert on this of course, but my observations, and comparison between Citsuma Prague and other hybrid seedlings, make me inclined to believe this may indeed be a chimera.

I had been a little skeptical before and had wondered if Citsuma Prague could perhaps be some sort of hybrid.

I am now attempting to create a graft chimera between C. ichangensis and Keraji, and between Early St. Ann Satsuma and a special seedling of Changsha mandarin, which jim believes may possibly be hardier than regular Changsha.
I don't know how much success my attempts will have, but it's worth a try. (I suspect actually managing to successfully form a graft chimera would take a lot of trial and error)

My thoughts are if the two are rooting together, from adjacent wood that is healing together, the bud growth might merge together as it is growing out roots.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« on: September 23, 2019, 01:33:05 PM »
there is a hybrid with satsuma called Ichandarin Liudmila, it's said to taste similar to yuzu.
It might be a hybrid of ichangensis, we're not exactly sure. Its cold hardiness hasn't been tested.
There is another thread started about it, for further discussion.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: some pictures from Jim's place in Vancouver, WA
« on: September 23, 2019, 02:46:59 AM »

jim standing in front of the Yuzu for scale (K)

Cold hardy citrus can grow in the Pacific Northwest.

Cold Hardy Citrus / some pictures from Jim's place in Vancouver, WA
« on: September 23, 2019, 01:52:37 AM »
These are some pictures from jim VH 's place in Vancouver, WA, right across the bridge from Portland, Oregon.

Flying Dragon (A)

Prague Citsuma (B)

close ups of Prague Citsuma




Changsha mandarin (F)

Citrumelo (G)

close up of citrumelo


( I ) this might be citrangequat

bark damage on base of Yuzu caused by prior cold winter (J)
The tree is about 7 feet tall, thick and healthy, with some green smaller underripe fruit on it.

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