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Messages - LaCasaVerde

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126
Citrus General Discussion / Louisiana Sweet Orange
« on: October 31, 2016, 04:53:29 PM »
Ive heard two different stories on this cultivar--

Those folks in Louisiana say it is hardier than a Hamlin orange, is covered in thorns and the fruit size is larger. Seedier but at the same time the fruit juice quality is superior to Hamlin. Many  Louisiana state agriculture sites list Hamlin and Louisiana Sweet separately.

Others say it is a Hamlin orange tree nothing more.


Im curious what the real deal is behind this orange tree. As sweet oranges go- Hamlin are supposedly the most cold hardy. Claims in Louisiana say Louisiana Sweet is much more cold hardy than Hamlin. If so Id like to source one...

Anyone know for sure or have info on this ?


128
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Anyone growing Hamlin on US-897?
« on: October 26, 2016, 09:41:03 PM »
hmm.  I had thought us 897 was mandarin x trifoliate. The trifoliate being flying dragon.  Im going to let it ride a little longer and see. If i t breaks the height of the roof eve then it could shade my solar panels. Thats the concern here. I dont think the root system could be strong enough to damage the foundation.

129
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Question on Barbados Cherry Seeds
« on: October 26, 2016, 03:30:51 PM »
I was wondering about the seed viability. They all looked aborted and out of the hundreds, if not thousands of seeds that have dropped or been spit in my yard, I have never seen a tree sprout up. Has anyone gotten viable seeds from cross pollination? I prefer to graft onto seedlings rather than cuttings or airlayers.

my tree started producing this year. its at least 7ft tall+wide
and rarely produces fruit. (i got from PIN)

i planted about 12 of the seeds, and havent seen 1 seedling pop up yet
its been at least 2 months.

i have a 2nd plant, but its very small, about 1ft tall.
it flowers a LOT more. i just put it in a larger container
i am hoping to get it large enough to replace the one larger i have
or at least to graft onto it. or topwork it.
they grow pretty fast given enough room and light.
They do grow fast.  Heres  is a trick Ive learned as your 7 foot tree is the same size as my potted one. Starve for water for 1.5-2 weeks. Then water  profusley and more importantly - if you have a back and forth sprinkler- allow it to hit the leaves.  Im on my sixth heavy crop since May. Ive only save a fraction of the seeds.  Fellow from Puerto Rico shared this with me. Said his always fruited after dry spell.  I didnt believe it until I tried this and it does work. I had light fruiting the 2 years. before.

130
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Question on Barbados Cherry Seeds
« on: October 26, 2016, 02:11:37 PM »
Interesting... looks like Ill be taking some cuttings.

 It  seems folks are making a bundle selling these seeds on ebay.

"I was wondering about the seed viability. They all looked aborted and out of the hundreds, if not thousands of seeds that have dropped or been spit in my yard, I have never seen a tree sprout up. Has anyone gotten viable seeds from cross pollination? I prefer to graft onto seedlings rather than cuttings or airlayers."

Vernmented- is your tree cross pollinated by any others you are aware of?




131
Citrus General Discussion / Anyone growing Hamlin on US-897?
« on: October 26, 2016, 01:36:14 PM »

I planted one a few  feet from the south wall of the house... supposedly field tests limit to 9 feet and thats after 10 years..  Year 3 and its 8 feet now. I can only use the " Honey...its a dwarf " line so many times to my wife . The tree was banded and
showing US-897 from a reputable nursery. Anyone else out there have experience with this rootstock? comparision to flying dragon?

Also, second question. Any danger to a slab foundation - planted 2.5 feet out from the  corner of the foundation? Slab was poured 8 inches thick. Im under the impression citrus root systems are more matted as Ive seen in my other trees...
l

132
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Question on Barbados Cherry Seeds
« on: October 26, 2016, 09:20:11 AM »
Non cross pollinated single tree....Thank you for the info. I appreciate the help.

133
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Question on Barbados Cherry Seeds
« on: October 25, 2016, 08:41:24 PM »
I could but Im trying to start about one hundred and only have one potted tree. Didnt want to take too much from it.

134
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Question on Barbados Cherry Seeds
« on: October 25, 2016, 08:17:31 PM »

Does anyone know how long Barbados Cherry seeds are good for? Ive been saving the seeds and some are now a little over a year. Iv just been drying them out filling up a cup. Thank you for the information.

135
The whole situation with HLB is terrible here in Florida. Perhaps Bayer should make Movento affordable to the average backyard grower if it is so effective -particularily when 60 percent of backyards have citrus in Cali. Thats a lot of trees...

136
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Laurel Wilt Disease
« on: October 24, 2016, 09:26:01 PM »
sorry to hear this. I dont grow avacados but it appears imidacloprid does kill the beetles according to University of Florida Extension quoted in this link-
http://www.californiaavocadogrowers.com/sites/default/files/documents/Current-Laurel-Wilt-Redbay-Ambrosia-Beetle-Suppression-Management-Strategy.pdf

page 36 referenced Admiral Pro which contains from what I can tell 42.8% imidacloprid . Not sure about Bayers concentration on Beatles..not listed

137
After reading this post and growing Anna, En Shiemer, and Golden Dorset- two points to add:

Low chill apples can second bloom/crop  in warmer climates. Mine has.

Defoliating low chill apple trees may stimulate a bloom but the more inportant reason it should be done at the onset of winter is that leaves of apple trees regardless of variety are genetically dispositioned to drop in one season when chilling requirements are met. When they are not you should always remove the leaves as these second year leaves are weaker and harbour any pest or disease from the prior summer.

138
Citrus General Discussion / Re: What to do if I have citrus greening?
« on: October 24, 2016, 12:33:03 PM »
There is no treatment....  You can try these growers techniques for prolonging the decline of the specimin but in the end Ive never read where the bacteria is actually controled - then permantely repressed in the host. I also question keeping plants alive with this bacteria as those growers are allowing the psyliad to spread the disease from these already comprimised groves to others In my  personal research on the disease ive only seen that heating the tree to high temps had  killed the bacteria .  Im constantly on the watch for Greening here unfortunatley for us Florida growers :( 


On a better note- look closely at the pics on this link. It should take you to a slideshow showing greening symptoms on a leaf. I dont see that on your pics. Then again I could only see a few leaves.

http://cisr.ucr.edu/citrus_greening.html

If you cant tell for sure-  call as I mendioned earlier and take them a leaf.

Finally - I narrowed my selection to  imidacloprid systemic. I use Macho 2.0 for inground plants. You can decide- here is a good article to start  on recommended insecticides from California as I believe they have seen what has happened in Florida and give a wider range of selection-
http://ipm.ucanr.edu/PMG/r107304411.html

139
Citrus General Discussion / Re: What to do if I have citrus greening?
« on: October 24, 2016, 12:19:09 PM »
too many variables here.
Young trees drop first fruits regularily  as they are not old enough to hold the fruit to maturity and decide to grow instead. You are also correct greening doesent appear overnight. Have you screened for the Asian citrus psyllid? If not please do. There are many online videos as to how to do this.  That being said, if purchased by a nursery or online nursery in Florida these young plants are soil drenched to slow the spread of the disease by killing the Asian Physilliad as it is the vector. The expiration time of the coverage is usually banded to the trunk of the tree. Not to say you cant get greening but this does diminish the odds a little. Your pics do not look like the disease to me as the leaf pattern is less circular spotted and discoloration appears more blotchy and crosses veigns in hlb.  Edges of leaves are catipillar damage The second pic looks like all the yellow leaves are more difficenty. HLB is more irregular from one side of the leaf to the other (visual symptoms)- those loof mostly yellow. Viens befome corky and raised.  Since you planted your citrus have you had any new growth? Often citrus will experience shock  andstop growing (sometimes up to 6-7 months for me). During this time period it is not uncommon to see leaf yellowing.If it IS  growing- have you fertilized?

In a nut shell. Clip a leaf and take to your local Agricultural  dept. Or call them and they will tell you where to take it. Greening must be tested in a lab to confirm its presence.

The only real way to know though is to have your local Agricultural dept test a leaf sample. If positive  confirmation Remove and Burn-
Anywhere the Asian Citrus psyllid is present the disease can spread.

140
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: How about a satsuma in zone 7 on a south wall?
« on: October 23, 2016, 11:12:41 AM »
Vanman,

You need to go ahead and make a cold frame now. Have 6 mil poly handy and cover it. Christmas lights around the tree and on the ground. Secondary 175 incandecent stake lighting as well for additional heating with sufficent clearence from covering.. Bricks alone will not provide enough heat. Perhaps heated as you suggest but then only effective for juvenile trees.   Ive built many cold frames of different sizes citrus  trees all the way up to 16 tall and 16 wide so I can tell you its very possible to be sucussfull there-hands free , probably not. Xie shan though hardy will not take  your long hard winters without protection period. Im protecting my xie shan here in 9a until year three.. Pvc frames anchored to the ground  do well. That being said- why not duct heat from the greenhouse into your cold frame structure? Looks like that would be easier.

141
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Cam sành - Citrus reticulata × maxima
« on: October 23, 2016, 10:29:36 AM »
It lesser know but is grown here in Florida. Ive seen it a local nursery in North Florida It can be sourced here when back in stock  at :
https://www.justfruitsandexotics.com/JFE/product/king-tangerine-2/



I checked this plant out several months ago and am going to add it as an inground planting  at some point.  I too havent found a lot of growers here but seems to be available/known as it has been sold  out and available again over the last few months.

142
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Solar power generator for space heater
« on: October 23, 2016, 12:54:25 AM »
Technically net metering would accomplish this if your solar kwhs produced exceeded your daily kwhs consumed. I have a 6.25kw solar array producing around 36 kwh per day. My home uses less than this so the extra would power a small heater though the night with no cost to me after investment.  Yes it is possible as Im doing it now. Depends on what you want to spend initially. or you can use this method in which I am also using which works just as well using solar in a different way.
 I converted my home completely to solar hot water using in parrallel solar hot water heating panels. I have seven that fill a 40 gallon hot water heater with 160 degree water in 4 hours.  My greenhouse will be suplementaly heated the same way using solar hot water panels which are 2x2 in size each heating a ibc water tote of 275 gallons. This will become a thermal battery and radiant  space heater at the same time for my plants.
Granted Im not sleeping beside the tote as Im assuming your runing a heater to keep you warm...

143
I grow Cali gold  and dwarf oronco . Grow mine in largest planters I can manage to move around as bananas here fruit after winter as they do not have enough time to produce in the  eight to nine months from spring to winter. Im not aware of a banana that fruits in under 8 months from pup.  As frost/freeze weather approaches I cut off all the leaves and lay the whole trunk  depotted over compost pile and cover with pine straw and yard clippings.  In the spring I set upright in the ground at this point watering the heck out of them initially and fetilize. As long as the trunk did not freeze the bananas resume again growing again at the maturation point they were then during the summer will fruit. The compost pile preserves the trunk with generated heat. By attrition Id say 3 of 5 will flower and produce bananas for me. No issue with ten in the pile. That is the only way I know of here due to the cold weather other than a greenhouse.  All the supposed frost winter hardy bananas like cali gold for example will die as soon as the stalk freezes and explodes the cellular structures- then you have banana mush. The root base may grow back as pups but you have to start the process over again. So I protect the root and stalk regardless of the varieghty. The leaves will regrow. There for your area Id sugest the dwarf oronco as it is versatile and the stalk remains shorter and easier to handle.  As well it is a prolific pupper and will provide you with replacements instead of buying new ones. The cali gold it taller at about 8 feet for me and has presented more of a challenge to keep warm due to its size.  Im in 9a barely and have to go through drastic measures to produce

144
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Is this zinc deficiency / ph issue?
« on: October 22, 2016, 08:54:44 PM »
I checked out your leaves again as I remembered something Ive seen here a lot. Leaves on my citrus after heavy rains or prolonged condensate have developed those spots in pic one and particularily two-which are different than the following pics. These spots are random through out new and old growth for me ( youll find top to bottom) Are your plants outdoors or in a greenhouse where the leaves have been damp for a prolonged period? Ive sprayed  citrus fungicide on mine to stop bacterial outbreak.  Here it starts as a circle yellow discoloration followed by a definite browning discoloration in the center.  Nutrient deficencies for me never have developed to that extent in a week or less. It usually occurs over a longer time frame then at some point I notice it. In cooler rainy weather though Ive had spots develop quickly. Ive sprayed with citrus copper based fungicide it always went away. I usually only spray once in early spring and sometimes in late fall to the leaves when spots develop. The other pics definitly look like deficency as their leave symptoms are not as random  and more patterned in appearence..  You mentioned other plants also exhibited the same issues in this same week time frame.. If citrus also consider spraying as well- Im not saying for sure it is- just that the remedy is something I do as a precaution and stops it for me.

145
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Is this zinc deficiency / ph issue?
« on: October 22, 2016, 05:55:28 PM »
add Epson salt 1 teaspoon sprinked around base potted and 1 table spoon around base inground to counter magnesium deficiency. Thats what it looks like to me.  New leaf growth will tell you if you are right as the leaves with mag deficenty take some time to green back up for me. Invest in a ph digital pen reader and test water in a glass as i suspect that is the primary with what you referenced. as to soil ph research how to amend potted container soil to lower it slowly.
i found this for you:
Add 1/2 teaspoon of sulfur per 6 inches of pot diameter to lower pH by half a point. Sulfur can be applied as granules spread on the soil, or mixed with water and poured onto the soil. Alternatively, you can work about 1 inch of sphagnum peat moss into the plant's soil to lower the pH. Recheck the soil to see if additional applications are necessary.

  Ive had limited success but better than nothing by making a soil slurry in your cup with your tap water once youve established a good ph base for the water first. Then you can a somewhat  have closer idea what the two are doing with each other in regards to the plants intake ph.  ph  swings from high water ph to low soil ph can cause these deficencies and are  harder to diagnose/control. Ive found citrus thrives in a more acid medium...5.5 to 6 when taking into acount water ph. This is particularily important as grafted citrs roostock tend from what ive seen to like soil on the slightly acidic side. hope this helps

Id rather change the soil medium to something I know than use pool test strips for ph readings on plants. i know because ive done the exact same thing you are doing now and it didnt work for me. google ph pen and find a decent one that is digital - 

lastly if you decide to add sulpher go slowly as ph adjustment to the medium takes time and is not an overnight fix. it is better to wait a month or so after applying to see the effect accuratley . ph adjustment in a confined medium requres knowledge of the 5 5 1 mix  ph you are using I remember reading a long time ago about Als mix and subsequent forum threads on the ph. If i recall correctly that medium is closer to nuetral/ acidic than alkaline by nature. So your mix 5 5 1  may not be able to compensate for 7-8 water ph.  you may just need to provide a water source closer to six to remedy you problem- that would be easier in the long run. water is easier to adjust than the soil and is less likely to cause root burn issues you refer to.

146
Citrus General Discussion / Re: new greenhouse planning
« on: October 22, 2016, 05:19:26 PM »
Loved reading this post so far.
side note:
I read earlier in the post about heating requirements/costs
Ive used this calculator for my heating needs and expense calculations for my greenhouse. May  come in handy:
http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/heat-calc.shtml

147
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida
« on: October 22, 2016, 04:15:36 PM »
Thank you Millet.

Lets share future tests with the fruit. It would be neat for others to see an West vs East comparison. Thank you for your min temps for this plant as well. Im going to keep the Dekopon unheated until Sub 32 weather this year. The greenhouse is 14x28 and is placed North South due to my location. Morning heat collection is more important as freezing temps very very rarely persist past 8am here (knock on wood).  As a curiosity- your Dekopon is lighted in the eve to increase vegitative growth flushes. When I was in college I grew a small garden and maintained a fruiting orange tree in a one bedroom second story apartment. I used metal halide for the vegatative states as that light wave length is more benificial. However, sodium halide I used for fruiting to harvest as it promoted fruit set and development. In my citrus currently after my plants set fruit there is a noticabley slower metabolism in the plant for vegitative growth (pronounced with heavy fruit set).  Then towards the end of the second two thirds they resume a slower later season flush. Im not sure when you light you plants ie start using additional lighting due to the days shortening but I would consider intermixing sodium halide as it promoted fruit set and development as I remember. Would this make sense in a greenhouse sections where plants were in fruit development late season or is it irrelevant?

What a trip that would be. Visiting the source growers for advice. One particular question Id have- At what temp are these fruit stored at post harvest? And why are fungicides to prevantly used there...every month? Funny- I actually tried to blow up a picture that showed one of these cooling rooms used for Dekopon storage and could not make out what the temp gauge said. I suppose I can throw these in fridge bottom drawers as the kieffer pears will have vacated that space by then.


148
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Neem oil
« on: October 22, 2016, 03:25:57 PM »
Millet, thank you. Your good  reputation preceeds you as Ive followed you for years. 



Samu, after further review Id like to say that my plants are in the ground. Potted plants I would not suggest Avid as the medium toxicity  from runoff can take longer to dissipate as the plants enviornment can be easily manipulated-ie taking the plant inside for winter, shading the potted plant, and so on.  My advice I suppose would then have to be limited to inground juvenile  plants.



149
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Neem oil
« on: October 22, 2016, 01:15:15 PM »
As to plants Ive used this successfully on in my garden:

Xie Shan, Hamlin, Blood, Owari, Myers, Dekopon, Ponkan, Navels...

150
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Neem oil
« on: October 22, 2016, 01:07:02 PM »
Samu,

Your battle with these pests will never end unfortunatly. Once the leaf miner population is established they will return like clockwork every year.  I too had limited success with leaf miner control initially until I understood how these pests operate. Anyway here is the mix ratio for Macho that Ive used. It is much more cost effective than Bayer and a far superior product for leaf miner control from what Ive experienced.

My Flowering is completed usually by Mid March. Some years though into April first. I adjust the below later to correspond with the end of flowering and bee foraging.
I use 1 tsp per 10 oz for soil drench inground plants.  Pour around base of tree. Water lightly in. I apply March 15. By doing so the plants are already protected when the first leaf miners cycle begins April 1-15 here. The idea that leaf miners like the second flush while accurate is misleading as some of my Citrus break dormancy earlier and those later to wake up to first flushes being attacked by miners. Then like clockwork with bearing trees reapply every 35 days as the second and subsequent doses take 2-3 weeks to be drawn back up through the plant.  I wont go indepth into  Imidachlropid as it would take days and there is enough info out there already. But I will say this - the plants root system will only absorb so much of the compound wether .23 or 21.4% Imidachlropid- both which in ratio proportion to water are lethal to leaf miners. From my observations in my garden Macho leaches out of the soil slower due to the higher concentration allowing the plant to perhaps attain a longer period of root uptake. I say this because my Myers lemon tree flushes very fast and can actually outgrow the chemical coverage at the new flush leaf tips. Bayer did not work-Macho did. Then after reading the label for Macho you can decide how close to harvest you want to use the product. My advice is what I use to stop them.
Bayer for me works in my potted plants but not so much for inground trees.

I would suggest reading the label first.
use http://hortipm.tamu.edu/ipmguide/ento/chapters/dilution.html to understand dillution ratios as boring as it is- it has helped me put my mind around  the idea of mix ratios.

The following info is what I use for NON BEARING CITRUS-youngsters- those 1 or more years out from first fruit as in my opinion they are non bearing ornamentals  . It is what Ive found to stop completely miners and is a spray pattern I use only after understanding compound half life, residual and toxicity.

First Macho 2.0 in April or so. Foliar spray Avid -Avid at 4ml per gallon to new flush growth. The miticide wipes out leaf miners at it pools inside the leave itself (translaminor) for 28 days. It also counters mite outbreaks I have noticed after Bayer or Macho. Ive used both in tandem and never had a citrus leafminer problem period.

Currently Im using Macho 2.0 with suffacant-spreader sticker- to new flush only on my larger trees in trandem with MACHO 2.0 soil drench.






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