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Messages - Walt

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My P. trifoliata are in a field fully exposed to wind and everything.  They have taken -5 F every winter for 5 winters.  I don't have my calculater along, but that is colder than -10 C.  I don't think cold will be a problem with established plants.
My way has been to buy fruit at Hong's Landscape in Wichita, Kansas.  His 2 trees are over 15 years old, and Mr. Hong doesn't remember where he got them and doesn't have  any information on which variety he has.
So I harvest the seeds and put about 25 in a 1 gallon pot and let them grow inside for their first winter.  By spring, the 4 or 5 month old seedlings are planted where they are to grow and tended like tomato plants until mid August to get as much growth on them as possible.  In mid August, I quit feeding them and reduce water to harden them for winter.  During winter I water a little if it hasn't rained or snowed for a month.  I dought you need to water.
There may be better ways to do it, but this has worked for me.  Once established, they are tough plants.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: October 18, 2018, 04:55:28 PM »
I see that citrusman99 is offering fruit of US852.  I've ordered 14 of the fruit.  US 852 is said to have maybe 50% zygotic seeds.  That means I will have at least 280 seeds, over 100 zygotic.  T
his puts me a generation ahead of where I was this morning.
I'm still getting a tree of US 852 for crossing with mandarin and with trifoliate orange.  I'm wanting to see the variation in the 3 populations, the F2 and both backcrosses.
Isn't citrus breeding fun?    Actually, I am one of the few who think so.  But as Shakespear said, "We few.  We happy few."

I'm in northern zone 6.  I'm also in a rather dry area, central Kansas. 
Under my conditions, P. trifoliata is completely winter hardy if it doesn't dry out.  I wouldn't even try fall planting trifoliata.  I don't even fall plant apples and plums as they would also need water their first winter.  If spring planted, the same trees will only need winter irrigation in a very dry area like mine.  The next winter they will likely have their roots down enough to find water.
But last spring, I had to transplant some 4 year old trifoliates.  They had an extremely shallow root system.  I think drying out of seedlings is more likely to kill them than the cold.
But it doesn't really matter what it is that kills them.  Spring plant like Laaz said.

Florian.  P. trifoliata does OK in Nebraska, zone 5.  I don't know if those are in sheltered locations or anything else about them.

Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Aust. Bloodlime seedlings.
« on: October 18, 2018, 01:23:46 PM »
Link might be spam, but I have dealt with Mr. Dyson at that address with good results.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« on: October 15, 2018, 12:53:38 PM »
Ilya.  All I want to harvest from precocious Pt is pollen.  And I'm willing to wait if I must.  I want to see if the gene(s) have different  effects in different backgrounds.  Cutting even one year per generation would be of value.
Mikkel.  I'm keeping my Flying Dragon because it makes some zygotic seeds.  I haven't read reports saying whether or not precocious does that.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« on: October 13, 2018, 12:47:13 PM »
Unless I missed it, there haven't been any posts saying, "Yes, I've made crosses using precocious Poncirus."  Well, I haven't either.  But next spring I expect to be making some.  I know that the trait is recessive, so I don't expect different results in the F1 than if I use regular Poncirus.  But I'm looking toward the F2 and beyond.  In those generations, I'm expecting big differences in generation time.  I'll be crossing, I hope, with finger lime and kumquat as I hope they will be blooming then.  It is possible, but not likely, that I'll have mandarines in blloom next year.  If so, they will also be crossed.  Just as I hope my precocious Poncirus will be blooming.  I have aquired some precocious Poncirus from several sources, All trace back to Laaz's precocious.

Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Aust. Bloodlime seedlings.
« on: September 30, 2018, 03:34:45 PM »
Will these seeds be zygotic, nuceller, or mixed?

Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / citquats
« on: September 30, 2018, 03:31:49 PM »
Does anyone have, or will have later in the fall, seeds from citquats?

Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Aust. Bloodlime seedlings.
« on: September 29, 2018, 12:56:36 PM »
How would you want payment?  Paypal OK?

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Rooting Root Stock?
« on: September 12, 2018, 12:07:38 PM »
I prefer seed grown, non-transplanted, roots for apples a plums, because they have tap roots.  Is this an issue for citrus?

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Rooting Root Stock?
« on: September 11, 2018, 12:47:50 PM »
I see you are in Georgia, where I expect humidity is high.  High compared to mine at least.  I would need the dome, or up-side-down aquarium, in my case.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Latest Video From Dan Willey The Fruitmentor
« on: September 11, 2018, 12:44:37 PM »
My seedlings don't grow near that fast.
Good video.

I will be pollinating every time I have a flower.  I might as well keep track and report back, someday.
I'll google and try to see if someone has published such stuff.

Has anyone checked whether there are other things, like temperature, the change the percent of zygotic seedlings?  Temperature seems to change the percent of successes in interspecific wheat crosses, and also sunflowers.  This is a whole different thing, of course.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: finger lime
« on: September 07, 2018, 01:22:54 PM »
How was the KNO3 applied?

This is something for me to pay attention to.  I'll be making many crosses, and I will of course try to use seed parents with a high percent zygotic seedlings.  But now I'll be paying attention to pollen parent too, and see which ones give higher percent zygotic seedlings.  It may not make any difference, but it won't be extra work to keep track.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Natural pest control
« on: September 04, 2018, 01:16:26 PM »
Looks like the toad is guarding his tree.

Granddad said a barn isn't worth having if barn swallows don't nest in it.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: August 21, 2018, 03:27:54 PM »
My plans are to aim at growing 200 per generation.  They will spend their first summer outside, in pots, then their first winter in the greenhouse.  Outside again for their second summer, then back into the greenhouse, but take cuttings which will be labeled, then packed in moist sawdust, then put in a freezer set at a temperature to be determined later, but the temperature chosen to kill some but not all of the cuttings.  Then the cuttings will be grafted back onto their origional plants to see if they survived.  Or perhaps I'll try to root the cuttings, or maybe I'll learn to identify freeze damage just by look or feel.  I am open to everyone's ideas.  Most of you have much more experience than me.
I do see problems with my plan.  Weather before taking the cuttings will determine degree of hardening off.  And different genotypes will respond differently to the hardening off.  I'm studying work done in apple breeding for ways to select for winter hardiness.  Again your ideas are welcome.

I will also be selecting for % zygotic seeds, precocity, and flavor, so I plan to keep most of the seedlings to bloom, or at least for a few years and then dump those that haven't bloomed.
I expect to build an additional greenhouse each year for 4 years.  I expect to start a new crop of seeds each year, 200 per year. 
Now, if my breeding stock would just bloom already.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Soon To Be Released By The USDA
« on: August 20, 2018, 03:29:15 PM »
This one is on my bucket list.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: August 19, 2018, 03:10:09 PM »
Ilya wrote that he had discarded all seedlings with the leaf smell of P. trifoliata.  I think that got rid of all nucellar seedlings and left only zygotic seedlings.
I think he also got rid of some zygotic seedlings, as not all zygotic seedlings would lack that smell.  But while the discarded zygotic seedlings might have some good traits, one does have to set standards and stay with them unless something unexpected turns up.  Space is always limited.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: August 18, 2018, 12:40:28 PM »
I still believe , that current number of seedlings is not sufficiently high.
I read somewhere that even when crosses are made between two high quality citrus varieties you need at least 200 hybrids to select something new and valuable.

Most citrus breeders aren't using P. trifoliata as a grandparent.  While larger population is better, I would expect some of your seedlings will not have the Ponciris flavor, mot even a little.  That would be an improvement right there.
Look at Dr. Brown's work.  His populations were about 10% of yours.  But he is said to have had improvement over what was available.  Of course, I don't know first hand.  But I find it encouraging.
That said, I working toward populations of about 200. but so far I have mostly populations of zero.  So you are way ahead of me.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: August 17, 2018, 01:57:44 PM »
I wish that were true, that some F2 plants were more winter hardy than the F1.  But I doubt it.  Not that I know of any F2 Ponciris x Citrus.  But I'll give my thinking, as you gave yours.
I assume that P. trifoliata has many genes involved in winter hardiness.  Many are incompletely dominant, as shown by the F1 which are more winter hardy than their citrus parent, but less winter hardy that the Ponciris parent.
I have read in an old publication from government citrus research, that the F2 is less winter hardy than the F1. and that it decreases in later generations. 
Now I don't believe that last statement, about the F3.  I have seen no reports on growing a large F3 generation from a large F2 population.  I would think that at most they selected the best F2 and grew out some F3 plants.  If they selected the F2 for eating quality, then the citrus genes for flavor, etc., would be linked to other citrus genes for less winter hardiness.
Don't forget gene linkage when planning crosses!
I'm am not saying not to do the crosses you have in mind.  They are much like I've planned.  I'm saying not be discouraged if what you have in mind isn't in the F2.  I for one, plan to continue select for cold tolerance and good flavor in Ponciris x Citrus in generation after generation, as long as I live.  I certainly don't want to talk you out of doing what you are doing.  I just think it will take longer than one generation.
I think you are in a milder climate than I am.  I think you can succeed quicker than I can.
Good luck.

Has anyone tried it as a pollen parent?  I'm wondering about the inheritance of the seedless trait.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: When to repot
« on: August 12, 2018, 02:54:51 PM »
I am a novice compared to many here.  But a few years back I bought a 1 gallon pot with about 30 trifoliate orange seedling for root stocks.  They were about 6 months old.  When I transplanted them each to a 1 gallon pot, I didn't loose even one.  So it must not be too hard.

Very interesting.  Thanks for the link.

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