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Messages - simon_grow

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Hey Seawalnut, thanks for the information.

I used to raise corals and breed saltwater clownfish and freshwater Flowerhorns.

From the recent research Iíve done, the newer LEDs are significantly more efficient than the newer HIDs including Ceramic Metal Halides and Double ended HPS in terms of PAR efficiency in umol/joule.

What type of light is best for a specific plant, animal or combination is dependent on that particular species.

From the latest information I was able to look up, the LEDs seem to be advancing at the fastest pace with efficiencies higher than 2.7umol/J

Many of the newest HID technologies using the best bulbs and reflectors including LECs(Ceramic Metal Halide) and double ended HPS have efficiencies around 2umol/J.

The newer LEDs also have spectral graphs that more closely match the typical PAR graph if you overlay them.

HPS has more orange/red but very little blue and itís missing a lot of wavelengths in between 400-700nm. CMH has the best PAR graph for HID that comes closest to natural sun but Newer LEDs have an even better Spectrum with the added benefit of increased efficiency.

Again, Iím a complete novice but a quick study, when I have time. What I stated above is my understanding based off of many many hours of internet searches I could find based on the latest information out there.

LED technology has come a long way and the LEDs from 2019 are significantly better than LEDs from 2018. If someone is comparing HID to blurple lights, that is an extremely unfair comparison.

The one thing that LEDs really lack is UVA/UVB light. UVB light appears to be more significant in terms of increasing essential oils but it is also extremely dangerous. UVB can easily be supplemented by adding something like this

I will add links to some pertinent experiments when I have some more time.

I could be completely wrong but if I am, Iíd love to see some research, videos or papers to prove it. This is a great discussion as indoor growers trying to grow Mangos in areas of the country that snow outside may be able to utilize this information to maximize growth of their Tropical/subtropical and also potentially improve taste by giving their plants the best PAR light and maybe even increase sensory appeal of the fruit they are growing by incorporating UV light which is not considered photosynthetically active.


Thanks for the info K-Rimes! The HLGs are very expensive. The meiju seller lists their LEDs as top bin but theyíre all the way in China so who knows what youíll actually get but for the price, itís a great deal.

I use my lights for Miracle Fruit and Mangos during the Winter so I have to mist my MF to keep the humidity up.

I have my Spider Farmer arriving soon and Iíll probably pick up a quantum board from Meiju for comparison.

Iím thinking about getting the 3500K + 660nm epistar


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Additional Photo Option
« on: December 21, 2019, 02:00:58 PM »
Thanks Patrick! I just tested out the new feature and it works great.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mangos from Leo's yard and Mango tree talk
« on: December 21, 2019, 01:59:49 PM »
Some giant Keitts. I believe they are in the 4-5 lbs range

And some fruit Leo insisted I take home for helping out in the yard.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mangos from Leo's yard and Mango tree talk
« on: December 21, 2019, 01:56:56 PM »
Some more pictures


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mangos from Leo's yard and Mango tree talk
« on: December 21, 2019, 01:55:32 PM »
I just stopped by Leoís place and some of his mango trees are loaded with fruit. His Todos Santos is just covered with fruit and he also has some huge Keitt fruit.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Fruit sightings in San Diego
« on: December 21, 2019, 01:51:30 PM »
I bought longans at Mira Mesa Hmart a few times.  Tried sprouting the seeds, but not a single one sprouted.  Are they irradiated?  Or is there some trick to sprouting them?  Lychee on the other hand sprouts just fine.   Any ideas?
Happy Holidays!

I havenít paid attention to the Longan but they could potentially be irradiated. Do you give bottom heat? Maybe try to find locally grown Longan as a seed source.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Fruit sightings in San Diego
« on: December 21, 2019, 01:49:21 PM »
Here are pictures of the Korean Muscat grapes


Thanks for all you do for the forum Patrick!
$40.00 from Brad and I


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Fruit sightings in San Diego
« on: December 20, 2019, 03:10:56 PM »
They have Korean Muscat grapes at Hmart in Mira Mesa. This is the first time seeing these so I paid the $20 for one bunch. They are sweet and Seedless with a slight yellow kiwi background flavor. An excellent grape but not worth $20 in my book.

Canít upload pics. Iíll try later

K-Rimes, did your QBs from Meiju have a waterproof coating on the LEDs like the Spider Farmer 2000? I know the waterproof coating diminishes the PPFD but itís nice to have. Even with the waterproof coating, the PPFD chart from Spider Farmer and also from the Migro test videos shows the QBs still have extremely high efficiencies.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« on: December 17, 2019, 06:22:54 PM »
I have always cut my seedlings to join them. I cut about 1/3 to 1/2 way through the fleshy young stem/trunk. When you cut this deep, you get a better union but the seedling can flop over. Once you wrap the Union, it should be able to stand upright again.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« on: December 16, 2019, 09:51:49 PM »
The new growth on seedlings are very soft and juicy. By fusing, they could be referring to grafting them together or maybe even twisting them together or tying them together so that they will naturally fuse together without making any cuts.


Thanks for the info Brad! I guess it really depends on the application.

For others that have purchased the cheaper Blurple lights or other SMDs with built in fans, I read that the fans often fail which eventually cause the lights to overheat because they are encased.

Also when doing research on LED lights some sellers miss represent their data. Some sellers are giving PPFD reading from the dead center reading, not the average PPFD reading at 12, 18, 24 or 36 inches. PPFD readings are highest dead center, beneath the light and depending on the type of LED or lense, it may or may not drop off significantly as you take readings from the perimeter.


In my case, I wasn't willing to have fan noise since this light set-up is inside my house. The quantum boards are effectively just a COB light with a different lay out - instead of the diodes circling around a stalk and being reflected downward by the housing, the LEDs are directly facing down on a big fat panel. This is also good for cooling, since they aren't stacked all around each other. They are mounted to an extruded, anodized aluminum heat sink that gets better light distribution and cooling. A lot of the COB rigs are really expensive if you're buying them commercially a la Timber. Homebrew like Brad is pretty decent pricing.

With the two 260w boards I have, the boards and the heatsink barely get warm - it's just the driver that runs even slightly hot. It's kind of a bummer actually cause I wanted some ambient heating in my house from them...

There are so many ways to do this. You can even just buy some cheap fluorescent bulbs from Home Depot and have a bunch of little work lamp housings, which is probably sufficient and cheapest. I plan to use my lights for other endeavours later on, so I wanted something higher end than that, and also didn't want some weird aesthetic in the corner of my house... Though I guess it's still weird since it glows like the gotdamn sun.  8)

I missed your post earlier but from my recent internet searches, the Quantum Boards are amongst the best bang for your buck. There is a lot of miss leading information out there. Much of the information on the internet is from manufacturers that are trying to sell lights.

The newer LED lights are amongst the most expensive out there but calculated over the lifespan of the light fixture, including bulb replacement, the LEDs come out on top.

The newer LEDs also have a better Spectrum than HID, for plants. The newer LEDs have multiple bands or colors of LED diodes that combine to create a broad spectrum instead of high peaks at specific wavelengths like T5.

Metal Halides have a lot of Blue within the PAR Spectrum so this can help shorten internode length which may be beneficial if youíre trying to grow Avocado or Mangos. The issue with the old school Metal Halides is that they have significantly less photons in the red spectrum where much of the PAR lies.

The newer Ceramic Metal Halides have a better Spectrum with more red but the fixtures still produce a lot of heat although less than the older MHs.

There is also the double ended HPS that has better PPFD and efficiency than older single ended HPS but the newer LEDs including the newer COBs and SMDs have higher PPFD and efficiency.

The better LEDs will have some of the Infrared spectrum but from what I understand, it does not contain UV. The papers or videos I saw showed that T5, Metal Halide and HPS give off some UV but they are giving off UV A and the plants want more UV B. There was something being mentioned about a one to thirty ratio of UVB to UVA, respectively, that natural sunlight gives off but I donít remember the exact figures.

A lot of the information regarding UV requirements out there is geared towards growing medicinal flowers and the UV light is supposed to increase THC levels. More research needs to be done to see what role UV light plays in the everyday life of tropical fruit trees grown under artificial lighting.

Just to reiterate, I recently read most this info off the Internet. Some of the info came from Universities and a lot of the information came from YouTube videos so do your own research and take everything I wrote above with a grain or tablespoon of salt.

I was merely regurgitating info I recently acquired before I forget it. Please correct me if Iím wrong. Reading about new innovations in lighting technology was extremely interesting. The efficiency of the newer lighting sources has got me captivated.


What do you guys/gals think about LEDs on Quantum boards such as the HLG lights? Iíve been doing some serious reading on new light technology and the Quantum board LEDs have very high efficiency with a Photosynthetic Photon efficacy of around 2.00 umol/J or higher.

Iím just learning about this new technology and even data that is 1-2 years old can be considered out dated. From what I understand, these LEDs spread out on Quantum Boards reduce hot spots that can occur with COBs. Hot spots with significantly higher PPFD than surrounding areas still occur with QBs but it seems that the light is more evenly spread out.

Hereís some data that shows PPEs of various lighting technologies from Michigan State university. The technology is advancing so fast that the data may be outdated by the time you read this.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Hello
« on: December 02, 2019, 06:19:15 PM »
Hey, welcome back. Iím glad you didnít give up on growing. Sounds like a great idea raising your house up a bit. Please keep us posted on the progress of your garden.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« on: December 02, 2019, 06:13:07 PM »
This is really an intriguing topic.

What specific grafts/cuts do we think are most successful?

Also - perhaps a dumb question, how do you tell if the graft is successful? Clearly when you're dealing with scion grafts, it either takes or it doesn't and the signs are obvious.

Epicotyl grafts have a extremely high success rate, especially for Mangos. Fresh seedlings with reddish or copper colored leaves and stems accepts scion readily. In this early stage of growth before the leaves turn green, the seedling is mostly dependent on the food reserves in the seed for its energy because the chlorophyll is not up and running yet.

When you double rootstock graft or when you innarch two trees together, you should see the union bulge and maybe even break the parafilm or buddytape as the callous tissue heals over.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cherimoya Season 2019 (So Cal)
« on: December 02, 2019, 06:01:29 PM »
Thanks for the invite Brad, my friend and I both had a blast. The Cherimoyas at your place are awesome! Something about your soil and your fertilizer routine is making them come out extra tasty.

Most the Cherimoyas I tested came out with a Brix around 25%. The Cherimoyas are so sweet, itís difficult to eat more than a pound or two. It was nice that everyone brought some home grown fruit, Honey, wine and preserves. The Passionfruit curd spread was awesome on the Avocado toast.


I would go with CREE COB LEDs and make sure you get a good warranty on your light. Donít worry about the lumen output. Instead, focus on the PAR value and PPFD. This is the part of the light spectrum that the plants can actually use.

If you live in a cold climate, ceramic metal halides are good because they produce more heat than LEDs, they are also less efficient. There are bad LEDs out there also so be careful when shopping. If you find a good LED, it will generate last 50,000 hours or more and last about 3-5 years so you will save some money over the years compared to ceramic metal halides.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2019 SoCal Mango tasting
« on: November 25, 2019, 08:48:34 PM »
My two Peach Cobbler Mangos were still hanging on the tree and are very very firm but they have been like this for many weeks so I decided to harvest the one with more color in hopes that it will ripen by Saturday for the Cherimoya tasting at Brads this Saturday.

Iíll report back on how it tastes once it ripens up.


My kids accidentally swallowed a seed and there were no issues.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Any Info on Cotton Candy Mango?
« on: November 19, 2019, 07:58:36 PM »
Just to be fair, I do have a cold and have been taking Zicam so my nose and palate were not in prime flavor detection mode. Hopefully someone with an established tree will Fruit this variety soon so we can find out if it has good potential.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Any Info on Cotton Candy Mango?
« on: November 18, 2019, 11:13:42 PM »
Anticlimactic everyone, the mango was definitely not in best form. The skin was still green with very little coloring and it was getting wrinkly.

When I cut into it, I was happy that it felt ripe enough to be edible but I tested the Brix and it only came out to 17% Brix. I took a bite and instantly knew this fruit was not in prime condition. I taste the potential in this one, it did have a very subtle Candy smell to it but this particular fruit was definitely grown under poor conditions on a dying tree so Iíll have to taste a properly grown Cotton Candy before passing judgement on this variety.

I do have one more fruit hanging on this tree but itís a runt, possibly a nubbin.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Any Info on Cotton Candy Mango?
« on: November 17, 2019, 09:15:16 PM »
So I was walking around my yard about three days ago and smelled my larger Cotton Candy mango and the mango gave off a mild sweet smell so I cut it off the tree. The mango was still mostly green with a yellowish blush on the shoulders but I was afraid the animals would get it so I harvested it.

Hereís a picture after I harvested the fruit.

I just got home from work and it looks like the mango can use another day or two. I was expecting it to color up some more and become extremely fragrant but so far, that is not the case. I believe the fruit was either harvested too early or the tree was so small and weak that the fruit quality was affected.

I have another much smaller fruit still hanging on this tree so thereís still hope. Iíll post a picture and taste description once I cut the first fruit.


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