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Messages - Pancrazio

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101
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Mulberry Thread.
« on: May 23, 2016, 08:41:49 PM »
I guess they refer to "Morus alba" which is the specie with white buds. "Alba" in Latin means "white". Morus nigra, instead, is the common mulberry. Supposedly better taste-wise than its white counterpart, "nigra" in this case in latin means "black". Pigmentation of fruits can range from white to black for the fruit of both species, as far as i know.

102
With mangoes, the real issue will be the pollination. I have been struggling with it since last years, and honestly, while at the beginning i thought the harder part could have been the frost, this proved remarkably easy to avoid. But when you hope for 5/10° more to allow pollination, and you have a cold wind from West, or two weeks of overcast (or even worse, a big dip in temperatures after a perfectly fine month) things can really go on your nerves. 
Experience this problem for three years in a row, and growing a mango can really become a test of patience.

103
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Figs in Fl
« on: May 17, 2016, 08:56:46 AM »
I wish I knew how to properly orientate uploaded images


To edit locally: https://www.gimp.org/
To edit online, upload them with imgur: http://imgur.com/

104
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« on: May 15, 2016, 07:44:45 PM »
Thank you for your update Solko.
I'm especially interested in the possibility to save some wood in fridge. Evidently, Feijoas aren't really much demanding when it comes to scions survivability.

105
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Move to Facebook
« on: May 15, 2016, 07:30:32 PM »
In my humble opinion Facebook is very bad, it's the worst thing that has happened to online communities.
Topics are unsearchable, discussion usually are short and shallow, it's hard to retrieve old content, it's hard to filter useless content, most of the stuff there is people asking over and over same stuff. Only good side of facebook is the capability to keep in touch with pretty much anybody, but the good ends there.
Then there are some kind of content that on facebook are completly unpostable, take for example my post/diary on the "mango in central italy experiment", wich is a thread of an experience spanning over 6 years, impossible to present as unity with facebook interface.

Mrtexas i have read quite a lot of your post over the years, both here and on gardenweb, making a treasure of your idea and opinions. Anything you posted on facebook (if you have posted anything on facebook) has been hidden to me.  See what I mean? Your biggest contribution to the citrus community have been the ones happened outside of facebook.


106
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« on: May 12, 2016, 08:29:13 PM »
Ah, Solko, but you have done a marvellous work there! I think you have settled the dispute, definitively feijoa are to graft when they have swelling buds, somehow like mangoes.
While it's too early to be sure that all of them have taken, i'm going to assume that at least some of them did.

I'll be interested to follow your results.

The variety i did use was nazemetz, it was cool because fruits supposedly don't show any browning when cut. Dunno if i'll have a chance again with this one... apollo and unique however are on my wish list and i think i'll buy them from the site you show me pretty soon!

107
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« on: May 11, 2016, 07:55:39 PM »
I think i'm out from this experiment. All my grafts appear to be dead.
To be honest, I think i did a good job in matching the grafts (you can see it from pics) but something must have been off. Maybe they were already rotting when i received them? I don't know. However they all presented themselves this way:

Front (pen for scale):



Back:



I'm so bummed! I was really hoping to get this variety. And the guy sending me the scions have been so kind too! Well, i guess i've got to wait.


108
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« on: May 10, 2016, 07:30:09 AM »
I don't know if this method is used by people but i have noticed that's it pretty reliable; so far any t bud graft that showed a regular behavior regarding the petiole (with it falling in few days), has later proven successful.
This is due the fact that petiole abscission is an active process, so the bud can absciss its petiole only if it's still living, and if it's still living after few days, the graft has taken.
The T-bud in the picture had its petiole falling in a week. According Bitters, in his manuscript on citrus grafting, the callus union happen in about 5 days after the graft, so apparently it checks out. About a week has passed since it falling so xilem should be about to be formed between the bud and the rootstock.
In few days i will cut the part above the graft and we are going to see.

I'm unsure if this could work on cleft graft, however. They usually are bigger, and keep more moisture inside them, so i guess they could have the  energy to absciss the petioles even if they haven't taken.

109
Honestly, i didn't thought that as a possible explanation, this seems reasonable, the plant being repotted very late in winter. So they are actually flushing their roots right now. Well, i hope they are gonna leaf out soon, so i'll be able to graft them in september.

110
Optimal fertilization would require both of them. Wood chip is slow to decompose, but the humus resulting from wood is long lasting, does miracles for soil structure, helps retaining nutrients from fertilization from leaching and so on. On the other hand wood alone imparts to the soil a net loss of nitrogen, so unless you provide a source of nitrogen, and your soil hasn't physical issues, you may be better without wood than with wood alone.
Also, if you have access to bark, that is even better than wood from a mineral content point of view.
Manure can add the required nitrogen, while containing some residual plant matter. Ideal proportions should be 50:50, but they require plenty of water and time, after being mixed evenly, before being mixed to the soil.
Naturally, your local availability of rain may result in some other necessary adjustment.

111
Cold Hardy Citrus / Opinions on poncirus trifoliata root sensitivy
« on: May 02, 2016, 08:36:18 PM »
Hi everyone,
this winter i have transplanted/moved/potted up some poncirus trifoliata i had in ground or crammed in a pot.
Usually i don't think much about moving and abusing of small leafless temperate fruit tree... when they are leafless, they do take root abuse quite well.
Well, in my humble opinion, this doesn't look the case when it come down to poncirus trifoliata.
I transplanted 7/10 plants, with some serious root pruning, from a small crammed pot to several bigger pot, but they haven't showed any sign of emitting new leaves... also, some of the bigger "flying dragons" seem to have similar problems.
Now, i'd like to know: it's just me, or this species look pretty sensitive when it comes to root pruning? Do you have had any similar experience?
Funny think is: i have a grafted yuzu on poncirus, and this one got serious root pruning too, but it's now pushing vigorously... i have also formulated the theory that in PT the storage of energy goes to roots during winter while in other citrus it says on leaves, but i can't explain in any way this difference of behavior.

112
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« on: May 02, 2016, 07:26:59 PM »


[...]
The petiole has been left, of course, to see if the graft has taken.


Ok, this one is for fyliu;
Today i was checking for this graft and the petiole did fall off so, apparently this may have taken.
So, your suggestion was very solid and i'm happy to own my first grafted miyagawa on poncirus trifoliata "flying dragon". Thank you once more!

113
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« on: May 02, 2016, 07:54:30 AM »
Nice idea Solko... i was thinking about doing the same just yesterday.
My scions haven't pushed yet, too. It's pretty cold also here, so i'm quite bummed since i have a lot of grafts on my plants.
Only think i notice is that all the petiole became black... if they are going to absciss, this will be a good sign, otherwise the scions are just dead.

114
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Citrus Brzzaria
« on: April 29, 2016, 08:26:51 PM »
Hey Hifarm, i think that they are worth eating as much as you would consider a mixture of bitter orange e lemon worth eating...  honestly, best use i can image for such thing, (much more than direct consumption), is use to marinading stuff, but i don't have idea how the fruit behaves inside.
The picture is neat, i must admit. Some times you get all mixed fruits, like in picture, sometimes you get more "sectorized" fruit like this ones:
http://www.thegreenrevolution.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/limonaia-Bizzarria-6.jpg
http://www.lerosedifirenze.com/foto/fotopre/citrus%20aurantium%20bizzarria%20.jpg
I think that the cool fact about this citrus is that since you got pretty precise descriptions of this plant since 1600, and it never got extinct, once you are growing it you are growing in fact a 400 year old citrus. Yes, this is true for a lot of grafted trees,  but this particular plant has a really cool story.

115
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Citrus Brzzaria
« on: April 29, 2016, 08:39:28 AM »
Here you are.

116
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Choose Cara Cara
« on: April 29, 2016, 08:35:33 AM »
Most people think vanilla orange are bland, but i have tasted them in Sicily and i think they are delicious in their own right, and more juicy than other citrus. So, i would double graft my plant :p

117
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Citrus Brzzaria
« on: April 28, 2016, 07:45:23 PM »
I have a story on this one!
First description of this plant was in Pisa botanical garden, in 1674. The author of such description said that the citrus was discovered in Florence, around the year 1644. In such baroque epoch, something so "strange" was really interesting, and also they didn't have the concept of grafting chimaera, so it was quickly multiplied with several graft and soon it was in citrus collections of all Europe. It was something "strange" and "exotic" and nobles were in love with such things (also citrus collections were popular between rich people at such age).
In late '800 tastes in gardening changed and this plant was a lot less popular. It went abandoned pretty much in all Europe, and soon, it disappeared from knowledge. It was thought to be extinct until 1980.
Then, the director of the Villa di Castello Paolo Galeotti, checking archives and the citrus collection of the villa, realized that one of its plant could have been the Bizzarria... but he saw just a bitter orange: most of the plant had reverted, in fact, to a bitter orange.
Most of the plant... except a strange looking twig. A this point he grafted the twig, and three years later, at the first fruit, he realized the he got the Bizzarria at his hands.

118
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Choose Cara Cara
« on: April 27, 2016, 08:07:29 AM »
I'm about to prepare a cocktail tree for my yard and i haven't think about cara cara, but it looks like this one is a must have.
Thank you for your suggestion.

119
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Flying Dragon Seedlings
« on: April 24, 2016, 09:46:41 AM »
This characteristic makes for an easy to reproduce true-to-type rootstock, but when you buy online from nurseries it is a somewhat more difficult rootstock to get... this is what happened to me.
A couple of years ago i did buy some FD from an online nursery with the idea to use it to graft some citrus i wanted to remain small.
I got 4 plants, they were nice and fairly priced, but their contorted stem weren't so exaggerated as i hoped; undoubtedly they were FD but, probably the seeds weren't nucellar (or they were nucellar of something that wasn't nucellar in the previous generation).
So, what i wanted to add is that when you want to get FD is better to pick your plant by hand so you can see the quality of the rootstock; especially if you hope for its dwarfing characteristics more than their cold hardiness. 

120
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« on: April 23, 2016, 06:50:16 PM »
Well, 30 graft are really a big number of them so hopefully you will get a lot of data from this; i mean, even a relatively low success rate, of 10%, should be identifiable, while when you do few graft you always remain i boubt about any "bad luck" you may have experienced.
I'm eager to see how this stuff turns out, please let's keep each other updated!  :)

I have attempted to take cuttings from the plant too, unsuccessful, so i guess that grafting a this point is just the most sensible option.

121
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« on: April 21, 2016, 08:45:39 PM »
Maybe your friend should have cut the leaves off before sending the scions? Or were they exposed to frost in transit? I hope they will take, but if they don't, it might be more because of the quality of the scions, than your expertise as a grafter.


You are way too kind!  :D Hopefully i'll be a good grafter enough to have them to take, but honestly, i share your idea that the wood doesn't look good. I also think that he should have cut the leaves, but he was so quick and kind in sending me those, without asking anything in return, that didn't even dare tell him that they won't probably take.



Here are two pictures of my FrankenFeijoa's, I'm keeping my fingers crossed:






Your grafts looks good from here! However i tend to think along the lines of fyliu, and probably some bigger sized scion could have encountered more success? I have noticed on mangoes that if you graft some bigger scions, compared to smaller scions of same age, they tend to be more successful; i thing along those lines: probably bigger scions better retain their humidity giving the cut more time to heal.
So, i usually try to graft the biggest 1-year old wood that i have available.

Your Myagawa T-bud looks good, and interesting that you prefer tying with raffia, I have never tried that.


I like raffia because it isn't elastic at all, and you can do a really tight tie... you can do it with other materials, i have for instance a chip-budding tape, but it tends to deform if you put it under too much stress, and also it is sticky and becomes a nightmare to apply properly in certain situations (dusty/dirty environment when you t-buds very low on a freshly plowed field). I don't know how much of this holds true for electric tape, but the sticky part for sure remains. Parafilm is good when you want to keep the scion insulated from the external world, but isn't very efficient when you want to hold something in place... unless you use a lot of it. Of course para-film is one of my favored materials for grafting, but for t -bud raffia works really well, even more if you consider that a properly done T bud doesn't need much sealing, if at all, if your ties is strong enoug. So... rafia to me is just more convenient (also: biodegradable).

A good practice for grafting guava is to prepare the scion by stripping all the leaves, tipping and waiting about a week for it to swell before clipping.


At this point it's too late to attempt this, only precaution i had on my pineapple guava was the be sure it was was well hydrated: but i definitively will keep this in mind when i'm gonna try this again!

This information would help us have a better idea of factors affecting grafting success rates.
Timing, scion size, rootstock age, grafting method, location of graft on plant.


Oh, now that you make me think about it, i also tried a side veneer graft. Saw solko has success with it so i though "Why not?". I have even less hope on this one that on other grafts, it was my first side veneer. Well, more of a chip budding now that i think about it.




122
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Accidently let a tree dry out...
« on: April 20, 2016, 09:16:24 PM »
Got same identical problem on a lychee last winter. I thought to be have been able to catch it in time... i was wrong, and that plant now is gone.
Too bad is really easy to forget a plant when you have a lot of them, get busy, and sometimes the pot is hidden. It takes just and error over several years...  :-[

123
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« on: April 20, 2016, 09:02:19 PM »
Ok, so, i finally got some scions and did graft my plants.
Firstly, the feijoa seems really hard to graft. I have never seen a drier wood! Loss like you are grafting on a dead plant! Both the scion and the rootstock.
I received the scions from a kind person, but too bad during the time in transit some kind of rot had set in, so i don't know about the effective sanitary state of the cuttings/scions.
I grafted them anyway because of course few chances are better than no chances.



I really don't know if feijoa wood is supposed to be so dark.



However i did diligently finish my graft and now i just hope to see them push, but i don't have my hopes to high.





@fyliu: on a semi-related note; i kept in mind your suggestion on T bud graft for citrus. So i started regularly to check if my citrus showed any sign of bark separating easily from wood. Interestingly enough, while my poncirus trifoliata "Flying dragon" has already stopped it growth "lenght-wise" (ending what would have been the best moment for cleft graft, in my experience!), the bark has just started to split from wood easily (i say "just started" because while this works well only on higher portions of the stem while closer to the roots, the bark still adheres firmly to wood).
However i said to myself "why no?" and did promptly graft a myagawa on it, with a T bud of course.



I tied it with raffia because in my humble opinion while it may look outdated, it is a very solid choice for t bud, better than alternatives, because it can be tied very tightly while it doesn't impair your work by sticking to your fingers and so on.
The petiole has been left, of course, to see if the graft has taken.

124
I've go to understand when the best moment for citrus is. So far i have always thought that the best moment was when the plant were actively flushing, but probably this is true just for cleft grafts. Thei yeaar i'll do a lot of attempts, i have 3 poncirus that i reserved solely for this purpose (well, aside the fact that i want to bud them with satsumas...)

125
Well, pretty much any fruit I attempted, but i have had particularly good success with pears and apples. Last fall i did T-bud graft with a diospyros virginiana meader over a diospyros lotus rootstock and got a bud to take out of two (it's swelling right now) despite having done probably the worst tie of my short grafting career.

I dunno if it's a fact related to climate differences, that can explain the difference in techniques used on the two sides of the ocean.
However here t budding on temperate fruits is done at the end of August. My grampa recommended august, at least. My first T buds were done on 10th of September and maybe it's a bit late, but since then, because my first t bud were successful,  I always to my t buds on the beginning of September. Maybe I'm a bit superstitious  ;D. It's said that once you get a bit of rain after the summer, and the temperature lowers a bit, it's time to graft.

I avoid T bud on citrus because i have found that i have and hard time to have them sprout once budded. Also i have an hard time understanding when the citrus is ready to accept the t bud. I got a poncirus trifoliata flying dragon right now that i have attempted to T bud on 3 different occasions. Go figure!

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