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Messages - Pancrazio

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51
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: citrus varieties in order of cold-hardiness
« on: June 24, 2017, 09:14:19 AM »
Gotta say, making a list of cold hardiness in citrus seems very difficult. I personally wondered, since citrus are influenced so much from enviromental variables, how do you even compare the hardiness? To get a reliable list,  people should grow a BUNCH of different citrus, in rows, very close each other, on same rootstocks (ideally a dormant one, like the poncirus, so you are sure they are in same physiological stage when winter comes) under the same fertilization program, with plants of the same age. I doubt that something similar has been done, except maybe in research center, but still, research centers on citrus usually are in place so warm that some species aren't tested to the true extent of their cold hardiness.
The fact that i live in a place that has a proper fall, helps a lot with acclimation, and i think this may explain some discrepancies i see from here to the US.
Grapefruits, at least some of them, seem to be as cold hardy as orange if not more. I think a lot of people mix "heat seeking" with "frost tender". Grapefruit may need a lot of heat to make decent fruit but they don't seem bothered by frost. The only problem it's that you get acidic fruits.
Kumquat are really hardy compared to other fruit bearing citrus but fruits can be damaged from cold.
Lemons and oranges are on par. I see very sparse oranges there here, as much sparse as lemons tree.
Clementines are more hardy thank people give them credit to. I had one this winter that went to -7C (my nights in winter last for 14 hours) with just frost cloth and it didn't even flinched. It is grafted on bitter orange. Ironically i had a tahiti lime planted very close to that plant, own roots. Some twig dieback but the plant didn't even die to the ground.


52
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The best tasting orange for coolder climate?
« on: January 04, 2017, 05:48:18 PM »
If i recall correctly US119 could have some problems with fruit splitting, but i'm unsure.

53
Woah, Laaz, that's a beautiful fruit.

54
Citrus General Discussion / Re: This place is dead...
« on: December 22, 2016, 07:54:12 AM »
Femminello lunario has a distinct advantage for those living in cold areas, tough. When in 2011 we had a cold snap and all my lemons got defoliate, I haven't had a single fruit on any other lemon during the following winter, except for femminello lunario: this plant, as soon as re-leafed, resumed blooming, and even if its fruiting was sparse (which i also have found it is the case, at least on my pot bound plants) it never missed a single year.

55
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Cold Hardry Grapefuit/Pommelos
« on: December 17, 2016, 08:25:59 AM »
Ilya,
glad you saw this. Hopefully I will be able to get a good plant in few years. I'm particularly happy to see that you plant managed to remain outside so long. I guess our climate are pretty similar judging from the other plants i see in the pics. I would prefer a little more "dome shaped" plant but i guess i can prune it in the shape i prefer. The fruits indeed look very nice. Do you know how much they can hold on the plant? The decorative effect isn't secondary for this one.

56
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Cara Cara Navel Orange
« on: December 16, 2016, 08:25:48 PM »
Can't wait to try one. I did buy a grafted plant last October. I hope to graft on PTFD next spring to plant in ground. We will see.

57
Citrus General Discussion / Re: How much cold can citrus trees tolerate
« on: December 16, 2016, 08:17:50 PM »
I think that's really hard to come up with anecdotal evidence if grapefruits are hardier than an orange. The reason of this is that while the relative hardiness may be in doubt, i think all of us agree that acceptable grapefruit need more heat than oranges; now, the places that in winter are colder, usually have also less total heat, so grapefruits aren't exactly a desirable plant there, and most probably got replaced, so in any given time there are few plants of grapefruit that are grown in paces where oranges can't.
The difference in anecdotal evidences may also be related to physiological factors that have nothing to do with hardiness. Grapefruit in general are more vigorous so probably spend more time than oranges growing. Even if hardiness while dormant would be superior, they may be anecdotically reported has more tender because is more probable to see one of them with frost damage due the longer time the plant spends growing? I'm doing a wild guess here, nut i also guess that a good rootstock may play an important role here.
Reading around however I got the impression the grapefruit can do better than orange in cold department.
However, in my city with temps going every several years and then around 14F, citrus are relatively rare (with the notable exception of the bitter orange). Oranges don't grow here, few plants have started to happear in last 4-5 years which have been exceptionally warm.
Recently I have found this plant that reminds me of a grapefruit. Seems seed grown, I haven't been able to inspect it, except from the road.



This isn't a 5 years old plant, and in 2011 we went to 12F.

The sometimes you get the unexplainable. I have a Tahiti lime that seems to have survived 24F; a small cutting, own roots, good place but nothing exceptional. Will keep an eye on it.

58
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Cold Hardry Grapefuit/Pommelos
« on: December 16, 2016, 07:40:53 PM »
My Bloomsweet is doing beautifully till now. On PTFD, north exposure, it is dealing beautifully with cold snaps we had till now (Temps ranging from 30 to 24F). It is the biggest one.

My main concern is, if it remains so vigorous probably the place where i though it could be planted will be too small. I hoped to have a plant no taller than 2,5/3mt (8-10ft max).

59
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Cold Hardry Grapefuit/Pommelos
« on: November 09, 2016, 09:37:19 AM »
I'm not really sure how the thing will turn out. While theoretically oranges shouldn't grow here, given in fact the temperature you list, but a neighbor of mine has a orange tree planted in his garden since at least 5-6 years, and it managed to survive several freezes. I guess because our autumn last several months and plant acclimate pretty well? However, last winter the sweet orange plant survived this:



without even losing a leaf. And the plant wasn't even close to a building. I guess that the fact that it was a plant in a sheltered location covered from northern winds could have helped, but still. I'm not sure if that's just dumb luck from his side, but a this point i'm willing to experiment with several citrus and see if i can manage to grow some too.

60
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Opinions on poncirus trifoliata root sensitivy
« on: November 09, 2016, 09:29:17 AM »
I want to join Tom in complimenting for the pic. It's awesome.
Regarding FD, I honestly hope it will dwarf the plants. I don't mind a runt that I can cover easily since i'm outside a citrus growing zone, and my garden is definitively small (way smaller than i'd like, at least) so a big plant would be essentially unplaceable.
This, and cold hardiness, make the FD an hard-to-beat rootstock for me. Clorosis is of course a major concern, but you have to admit that a not clorotic plant is pointless if dies back during winter, or you don't have enough space to to grow it.
Sour orange is indeed tempting. In my understanding, tough, is very vigorous. So i'm thinking to use it on the most unpromising citrus on the cold hardiness department; so if they die back to bud union, they can hopefully recover swiftly.

61
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Cold Hardry Grapefuit/Pommelos
« on: November 05, 2016, 04:57:03 PM »
I will attempt, next spring with a in-ground planting of Hirado Buntan and Oroblanco/Sweetie grafted on the same Flying Dragon rootstock.
I hope at least one of them will survive and to be able to show/clarify if any difference in hardiness exists among those plants.

Spring:


End of Summer:


Hopefully at least the hirado buntan should survive. I hope to be able to cover effectively the graft point even in the case of snow, that's why i grafted so low on the stem.

62
Citrus General Discussion / Re: old forum archive
« on: October 15, 2016, 03:59:02 PM »
It's really a pity. Even if the forum was closed, having the database in "forum format" make search a consultation way easier. No, i wouldn't be able to recreate the db from scratch. Ideally if there were a surviving copy or backup of the database the only thing needed would be finding a suitable host. I guess that the amount needed to keep online a low traffic forum would be relatively easy to collect.

63
Citrus General Discussion / Re: old forum archive
« on: October 15, 2016, 08:21:47 AM »
I guess an updated database backup copy doesn't exists? Because otherwise it could be relatively simple for me to bring all the forum back to life on a new server. There were a lot of informations there.

64
Hey newgen, in my understanding all citrus do relatively well in container, if you willing to accept slightly smaller fruit than field grown plants. My suggestion if you are going to grow them in container is to by/get a plant grafted on a dwarfing rootstock (poncirus trifoliata flying dragon should do the trick) to have a plant easier to keep at a more manageable size.

65
Wow very cool. If cattleianum in ground won't do, i think i'll go with this one!

66
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Pomegranate grafted on dwarf pomegranate
« on: September 27, 2016, 06:14:10 PM »
Here  dwarf pomegranates are common in nurseries, but just as ornamental purposes, fruit as you said is small and in the best case insipid, in worst case downright acidic.
I have a small hedge of dwarf pomegrantes that are about 30 years old, but they aren't even 2 feet tall. I attempted maybe once to taste the fruit but never bothered since.

I have bought the plant i used for this experiment from the nursery, so i cant' really comment on it. I kept it just for few days before grafting. It had maybe 2 fruits, big about as golf balls.

The clone i grafted on is an heirloom variety, planted by my granpa, don't know the name. I have a limited experience in pomegranates, but all the people of the neighborhood say that this clone is actually very good, and since i enjoy it too (fruit sweet with just a little tannin tone) i'm interested in reproducing it. The fruit aren't very big, i would say they are orange sized.

If this methid could keep the plant at dwarf size, it would be great. Considering the size of the stems of my 30 years old dwarf pomegranates i would say that if this works, you could expect a full sized pomegranate at 6 feet tall max without pruning. IF this works: that remains to be seen.

I'm not the best grafter and pomegranates have been around for a long time; looks impossible to me that Im the first one thinking about this, so my conservative guess is that this at some point doesn't work. Compatibility issues is my guess.
However so far so good, so let's see how things develop.

67
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Pomegranate grafted on dwarf pomegranate
« on: September 27, 2016, 04:18:41 PM »
Update, as requested. The graft was performed around 9th of September, and now i'm happy to confirm that something moves around the graft.
I have noticed a HUGE production of callus that is visible under the parafilm (hardly in this picture, but the green hue is callus):



Few days later (today) one of the scions (cleft graft) shows some growth:



I know that this is too early to say "it's done" but at this point i feel confident enough to say that the graft looks "technically" a success, and i'm going to assume than any further problem may be due to the lack of compatibility between the regular pomegranate and the dwarf one.
Now it remains to be seen if the dwarf rootstock will dwarf the pomegranate, but i don't see why it shouldn't.

68
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Where to get a Naghal date plant?
« on: September 24, 2016, 05:18:48 AM »
You obviously know a lot more on this palm than me.  ;D
I'm just curious because apparently it is a very early clone and if i could get some small plants to try it in my climate i would like it very much.
But if it is a new variety i'm going to assume it is patented in any way?

69
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Where to get a Naghal date plant?
« on: September 23, 2016, 03:42:58 PM »
Apparently this is one of the earliest cultivar, and following the reasoning that early cultivar need lesser total heat to ripen the fruits, i was thinking that maybe MAYBE i can give this a shot. I love dates, but regular dates sometimes ripen in southern italy but not here.
Problem is, finding a named date cultivar in europe is pretty hard! Where i can get one (hopefully TC) clone of this cultivar?

70
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Pomegranate grafted on dwarf pomegranate
« on: September 23, 2016, 02:06:40 PM »
Yes, I'm keeping an eye on it, because apparently pomegranate buds are very small and also it has already started flushing from rootstock to replace lost growth.

Too bad accounts of grating on pomegranate are very rare, because the plant lends itself so well to cutting/air layering that grafting is apparently very rare. But i have read that grafting by itself leads to dwarfish plants, i guessed that on a dwarf rootstock i could get a plant that produces full sized delicious fruits on a tree very adapt to smallish gardens. If this will be a success remains to be seen!  :)

71
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Pomegranate grafted on dwarf pomegranate
« on: September 23, 2016, 07:29:49 AM »
I have grafted a regular pomegranate on a dwarf clone (cleft and t-bud), hoping to get a smallish tree.



Has anyone ever attempted this? What should i expect?
So far the graft are still alive but is still very soon to say if they did take (they are just 2 weeks old).
I was looking for feedback and experiences.

72
Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: How cold hardy is a mango tree?
« on: September 05, 2016, 06:14:37 PM »
Do they? Wow !!!
Onur

Indeed they do, but it is a pretty care intensive tree, I must admit!

Protected in a greenhouse during winter...  ;D

Don't reveal my dirty tricks!  ;D

73
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« on: September 04, 2016, 05:02:26 PM »
Thank you for your follow up.
To be completely honest, Im a bit envious. But I'll try to treasure your esperience if i'm going to ever graft Feijoa anymore.

74
Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: How cold hardy is a mango tree?
« on: September 04, 2016, 05:00:22 PM »
Very. They bear fruits in Florence.  ;D



75
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Satsuma cuttings
« on: September 04, 2016, 04:53:26 PM »
Hey guys, i don't know if i did something wrong, or what but i can tell you for sure that my experiment did not brought any rooted scions to my collection: yep; they didn't root.

It was a badly executed lazy effort, but same procedure with lime and citron di produce take with 80% success rate so i'm going to assume that satsuma are, at very least way harder to root than lime and citron.

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