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Messages - Pancrazio

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76
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Mango fruit pest - how to treat it?
« on: June 24, 2016, 02:58:07 PM »
My mango fruit have started to show some kind of damage from a unknown, to me, pest.
I'd like to get help on identifing and eradicating it.





77
Citrus General Discussion / HLB stories
« on: June 24, 2016, 11:10:10 AM »
We talk a lot about HLB but i never see anyone with first hand reports.
id anyone find it on his own plants? How did you recognize it?

78
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Grafting question (inter stem)
« on: June 19, 2016, 03:18:27 PM »
I suggest you to take a look at the Bitters manuscript, it details the effects of interstock in citrus quite a bit.

79
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Parafilm tape question
« on: June 14, 2016, 04:36:18 PM »
At my place they need usually 3 weeks. If alive after 3 weeks, you are ok: even if they don't push, they will push at next growth flush.
Regarding removing it, it's up to you. If you want to remove it, however, don't attempt it before the new growth has hardened. I have snapped some scions by being impatient.
To make grafts more secure, you can use some rubber bands. They hold the graft tightly at first but the sun usually makes for a weaker and weaker rubber over the time and they fall pretty son after the graft has taken (my low quality rubber bands hold just few weeks in full sun).




80
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Moving to zone 8b
« on: June 05, 2016, 06:59:23 PM »
I have been able to overwinter a Dwarf namwah outside, unprotected, this year (minimum temperature around 20°F).
If you average temperature stay around 20°F or maybe something more you can grow still a lot of interesting things but things will ask you some effort.

81
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Top 5 heavy producing Mango Trees?
« on: June 03, 2016, 05:28:06 PM »
Tommy Atkins?
Isn't heavy crop the whole point of tommy atkins production?

82
i can't get budwood unless i'm a licensed citrus dealer, so i'm out of luck

As someone dying in hope to get some scionwood from CCPP, i was really curious on how you were able to get some from US.  ;D
Turns out it isn't possible.

Would love to help you on varieties selection, but i guess our climkates are too much different.

83
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ornamental citrus
« on: June 03, 2016, 03:52:36 PM »
I'm aware of that.  :)
My hope is that FD will dwarf it enough, even if i'm not really sure on how FD will behave on my deep loam/clay soil. Under 1,5 meters all my soil is sand, but a pretty wet one, so who knows? I hope it will dwarf the scion enough.
I guess the tree won't attain a large size anyway. Every 12-15 years we get a -10°C/15F and more, so probably i'll have to start back from graft point every decade. I hope this will manage to keep the three in check.

84
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Satsuma cuttings
« on: June 03, 2016, 03:48:30 PM »
Well, apparently now it's the best moment to root some cuttings of satsuma, so i'm going to take some and will report on results. Thank you Millet for that suggestion.

85
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Glenn Mangos...
« on: June 02, 2016, 11:35:30 AM »
Nice fruits Nancy. It's your in-ground plant?
It's nice to see that you haven't had any more of those nasty freezes in last years!

86
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ornamental citrus
« on: June 02, 2016, 11:22:04 AM »
I think both of your suggestions are cool but the more i think about it, the more i think i'll go with a bloomsweet grapefruit. It should be at least somewhat hardy, but the real selling point for me are the fruits, both yellow (yellow, as color, is easier to pair with flowering beds) and hopefully, if they survive the winter should be able to remain on the tree till summer (when the garden is enjoyed the most).
I''ve got a FD rootstock that i hope will keep it in check.

87
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Satsuma cuttings
« on: June 02, 2016, 11:18:06 AM »
Thank you for your input Tom.
I have been trying to graft miyagawa on FD for quite some time now. This year i have had my first 2 successes but due to some dumb planning i lost both of them.
Grafting on FD seems doable, but of course satsuma on own roots would have a distinct advantage in colder climates.
The fact that even in japan they are usually grafted seems to suggest that they don't behave well on own roots, but one never knows, and home growing is a little different from commercial orchards.
Let's see if we can get some more input.

Edit:typos

88
Cold Hardy Citrus / Satsuma cuttings
« on: June 01, 2016, 09:59:43 PM »
Has anyone experience in reproducing satsuma by cuttings? How they do on own roots?
I have had great success in getting citron and lime from cuttings, and i was wondering if can hope to achieve a good plant easily with this method even for satsumas.

89
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ornamental citrus
« on: May 31, 2016, 06:14:00 PM »
Hey Ilya,
seems a solid suggestion.
I did read an interesting topic about it with your contribution on another forum.
Seems so good that it's almost an overkill.
Probably anything around the same hardiness of a bloomsweet would do for my location.

I will graft anything i'm gonna plant on flying dragon because i need a small plant for a small place in the garden.

90
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ornamental citrus
« on: May 31, 2016, 06:58:25 AM »
Well, i see what you mean, but i can't stand a trifoliate leaf on a citrus. It looks too much "uncitrussy" to me.
I've got most of the stuff you suggested. Orange/Arctic Frost satsuma, i think, is unavailable in europe (unless it is here with another name).
US119 looks interesting but i have heard that the fruit split in high humidity (like our winter).
Thank you for your input!

91
Yes, it was quite a surprise for me too. Looks awesome and bearing in summer may help to close the "dead zone" in citrus availability.
Now i've got to try it.
I hope to get some budwood next year from Corse.

92
Cold Hardy Citrus / Ornamental citrus
« on: May 30, 2016, 08:25:41 PM »
Because i want to give my garden a touch of Mediterranean atmosphere (well, it should be reasonable after all) i was thinking to add a citrus to the garden.
As you can imagine, however, my zone doesn't allow much choice; i can't simply plant an orange and hope that it will live.
So if i want a citrus in my garden, I’ve got to focus on the ones that can really survive here.
Another issue is the resilience to cold of fruits: to achieve the ornamental value of a citrus, i have to choose one with fruits that can survive winter spells, and also hold on the tree well into the summer. 
Now i'm wondering if such citrus does exist. Of course taste is just a secondary requirement, so pretty much anything goes. But no trifoliate hybrids! Their leaves are pretty uncitrussy, and i want to "look and feel".
So far my best bet look a fortunella (i was thinking obovata) or a bitter orange. They are both pretty hardy and may be able to survive here.
My main complain is that they have the orage fruits, and i hope something more lemon-like. Dwarf is better.
Any suggestion? I'm asking too much?

93
Encore mandarin may be something you may want to look into.
I do agree with you: citrus to me look like a fruit better enjoyed with warm weather.

94
Well, i indeed hope so!  ;D

95
Same yearly update.

At the end of our last summer i did manage to get my first self-produced, although small and ugly, mango. 
While i was happy to have accomplished this, i wasn't satisfied by the quantity of the crop.
So far my main problem has always been (or at least, i think it has been) the pollination.

My approach, so far, has always been this one: in order to maximize pollination, i tried to delay flowering as much as possible. This way, i thought, i can get full bloom when the plant is fully uncovered from winter cover and wind and bees will do the rest.
Moreover, later in the year we will have higher temperatures too, so, i though, this will lessen the chances to have the embryo of the fruit abort.
Looks pretty sound right? But so far this approach as proven unsuccessful. The reasons are probably numerous but i think the main one is the combination of shy flowering (Glenn becomes pretty shy at blooming when it's on its third bloom) united to adverse climate on smaller fruit, increasing drop rate.

So, for a change, this year i tried the diametrically opposite. I tried to anticipate bloom as soon as possible/reasonable (without getting too much deformed flowers because cold weather - tricky!) and to keep the cover over the plant for a very long time (i tried to remove it at the beginning of may but this year my plant as it even now, and i won't remove it for at least a week more).
This way, i though, the plant will have a better bloom, and will get a warmer/more protected environment for the beginning of fruit development.

Well, look like i have been doing it all wrong till now, because as for now the plant looks better than ever and if uncovering my plant won't give me any surprise, looks like i'm going for a true mango crop.

End of April:


May:


Few days ago:


96
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« on: May 29, 2016, 06:57:40 PM »
Congratulations to you too.  :) Now I’m feeling a bit an ugly duckling but I’m happy you both succeeded and I’ll try to treasure your suggestions.

97
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« on: May 26, 2016, 08:15:35 PM »
Congratulations from me too. All in all, i think your work has been a great success.
Probably we could have foretold it, but we now know it: feijoas do behave way better when they are actively pushing (and are about to push). Sorta like mangoes and citrus.
I guess cleft graft is the way to go, too!


We have had (or are having) a horribly cold and wet spring and the rootstock plants are barely pushing out new buds of their own. Two of them are in a sunny spot and they begin to show some growth, the grafts on these seem to have taken.


WROST. MAY. EVER. I'm hoping to get some warmer nights to uncover my mango, but climate doesn't look like is willing to give that to me anytime soon. I hoped to uncover my plant tomorrow, but they have predicted a new cold front on Monday.  :-\

98

The closest I can think of to Florence here on the West coast of the US are Roseburg, OR and Ukiah, CA:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roseburg,_Oregon#Climate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukiah,_California#Climate

You might find this site interesting -- it gives several central CA locations if you select Florence (it's basing things on mean monthly temperature alone -- I suggested the two cities above because they are Mediterranean climates with a bit of rain in the summer like you have):

http://www.codeminders.com/weather_similarity/#


The site you posted is really cool. I'm going to share it with some other italian fruit lovers, because it can result really useful to peeople who are willing to "zone push" stuff.

Regarding the cities you posted, they are remarkably similar to Florence! The main difference is that both of them look somewhat warmer than my city. I have noticed that an average of just 1°C can be an huge difference. I'm talkin especially of winter minimum/averages.
I have found that Vancouver has exactly the same average minimum temperature on January nights, but days are way colder. But at this point one should assume that average minimum on night is more important that average maximum of days and i'm not sure about that.
Thank you, though. Probably you are right, i'm somewhere between cali and oregon.

Italy has the Mediterranean sea. It warms in summer..but is a pond compared to the Pacific that borders California. The Alaskan current makes only bits of Chile and a tiny bit of Australia and a bite South Africa to have a Med climate and cold currents offshore. A rare Med climate in a bigger Med climate.
Heck I grew up never spending a day in warm ocean waters.  Still haven't-lol.  The bay does get warm as you go to its southern edges in summertime. 70's - 80+. Not many people know that.


Yep, Mediterranean sea is smaller. This probably also helps: water that heat up there remains there so is being pushed offshore (because offshore there are some other countries, lol). If you ever gonna spend some time in Italy i promise i'll bring you to take a swim in a warm sea water, with small waves and practically no tides.  ;) I'ts just a salty swimming pool with fishes, really.  :D

99
You are correct.  There are number of very mild coastal locations in California that have very little or no frost but also very little growing heat.  Check out Shelter Cove, at 40N, and still virtually frost free (even the record all-time lows are very mild), but with virtually no growing heat:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelter_Cove,_California#Climate

There are many cities like it in terms of lack of both frost and heat along the coast -- from North to South: Shelter Cove, San Francisco, Half Moon Bay, Pacific Grove, and San Simeon.  But a lot of these have to do with the contours of the coast and the ocean currents, because there are other cities along the coast in between these that I listed that get plenty of frost.  Locations around San Francisco bay benefit from the bay waters, with most locations immediately adjacent to the bay being nearly frost free and also getting more growing heat.

Overall California benefits from the flow of the jet stream combined with mountain ranges, so arctic air very rarely blasts us.  Also the ocean temperatures here are very stable, about 10 degrees F change between winter and summer, whereas on the East Coast of the U.S. the temperatures can change by 30-40 degrees F between winter and summer.

I see what you mean. This is just another confirmation to what i have been thinking in last few years; there isn't a climate really comparable between US and Italy. I have been searching for a place with a rains/extremes/temperature comparable to Florence pretty much in all California and East coast, but to date i haven't be able to find any. This would have been really useful both to me and to the guys living in that place, but i haven't been able to find any.
The best match i have found to date between Florence and a US city is Virginia Beach (VA) which has both summer and winter temperature averages and extremes pretty similar to ours.
But this doesn’t mean that we don't have a climate similar to California in Italy: we indeed have one but it is extremely limited in surface. It's a shallow strip of ground around the city of Alassio. Frost free environment with summer temperatures averaging 75-80°F in summer max temps. Incidentally, there are grown some of the best chinotto oranges, but not so much tropical fruit culture. But as i said it's a very narrow strip, not more than 1500 feet wide. As in cali, mountains to the north, and facing the sea.

Its like Sicily compared to inland Italy..a huge range of subtropical to ...what you are gardening under...chilly mild temperate Med climate. You must see 20's often in winter,every winter.
Mangoes are such rewarding tree's. That they can have sweet edible top grade fruit at 5' tall is amazing.

Indeed i dip in the 20s every winter, and i consider myself lucky and the winter "mild" if i don't dip in the teens. In historical record my city had temperatures going down under the 0 (that is, 0F) in last 30 years. Russian cold spells, although rare, ain't no joke.

Mango are indeed great. My only complain is the high heat they need to ripen fruit, but if you don't consider this, it's a plant that looks like it was invented to allow people outside tropics to grow it. It stands well extremes, is drought tolerant, it flowers repeatedly, with a flower induction triggered by cold/drought, grows nicely in pot. I have found that if you time flowers removal appropriatedly you can pretty much decide WHEN the plant is gonna flower which proves invaluable in colder climate. Having the plant to flower in the right time is very important.

100

Panz
Northern California has a much more milder climate than you guys. The temps swing are not  even close to what you experience.

I'm really at loss when i look at Cali climate.  ;D
I KNOW that there are some zone struggling with low level of heat, while having still milder climate than us (San Francisco? Am I right?) On the other hand in general people in Calif are blessed with more sun than us, so overall the have a lot more possibilities.
Dunno. :) My only point is, "once you get your plant to survive, you are only halfway trough: consider pollination too".

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