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Messages - Pancrazio

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851
Recipes / Florence Fennel and Oranges salad
« on: February 25, 2012, 06:31:17 PM »
Fennel and Oranges salad

This is my favorite way of eating oranges during winter.
This recipe is used mainly in Sicily, but nowadays you can find good oranges everywhere in italy, and fennel is also widespread. Dunno, if it is used even in USA, but anyway... here it is.
This is very simple but as with everything very simple, the single most important thing is the good quality of your ingredients.
So, just take a florence fennel bulb,
one orange (i use navel oranges; the sweeter, the better),
olive oil (use the best olive oil you have, we use 2 kind of olive oil in every house here, and for this recipe i use the best),
salt,
pepper.

Wash the bulb and cut it in little chips. Unpeel your orange and separate the segments, then break them by hand in 2 pieces. Try to keep the juice inside the segments, but is important that you break them by hand because a little of juice will give flavour to the fennel. Put salt and pepper. Mix everything with a fork. Put 2 tablespoon olive oil on it and mix once more with the fork. Buon appetito!

852
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dekopon Brix Test
« on: February 24, 2012, 05:09:07 PM »
This is interesting. While it would take a bit of effort to do it regularly, i'd like to see some brix tests in future on the fruit you eat, if you don't mind.

853
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Degree-Day
« on: February 24, 2012, 05:05:32 PM »
I agree with you Oscar.
Too bad we often see clearly where a result like 4) can be achieved (commercial orchards are pretty evident) but the other points often are largely anecdotal.
I think would be interesting to have a way to discriminate if a place is where you can achieve 2) or 3) with a given plant. Because a dedicate grower often can do thing to let his plant grow wich are absurd from a commercial point of view.

854
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dekopon
« on: February 23, 2012, 07:05:48 PM »
I don't want to hijack the thread, and a don't want to open a whole new thread for this silly question either...
Can someone give me a review on satsuma? I'm thinking about planting it, since is said to be a frost hardy citrus, but i'm not sure about the taste... i love fruits that are very sweet, and i have had some unpleasant experiences with mandarins before. So, if anyone has had a satsuma, how would you evalutate it?

855
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What is the Rarest Fruit Tree you Are Growing?
« on: February 23, 2012, 06:47:53 PM »
The rarest fruit i grown isn't a tropical fruit but an apple. Is an apple that was grown here in 1600 (but may be older). Anyway this cultivar is almost extinct. There are like 150 plants in total. About ten years ago there was just 1 plant. Ironically it was widespread here during last centuries, but since then the market has changed a lot and the growers have lost interest in it. Its main virtues are the ability to repel pathogens without any kind of treatment, its ability to keep tasty for months without the aid of a refrigerator (form october to april), its high level of polyphenols and, of course, its sweet taste. But aside for the taste, the other two qualities aren't so useful nowadays. And this apple sin't spectacularly big either. Anyway i think it is a beauty.


856
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Degree-Day
« on: February 23, 2012, 06:32:37 PM »
An interesting question for those who lives in a place where plants need to be kept indoor during winter is: "Will my plant fruit here?"
Usually we assume that if a plant can be grown outside without a cover, or a very minimal one, it can fruit.
But some calculation can be done for those who a forced to use a pot, taking in account your climate data (average max and min temperatures for each month). So, if you have those data, even if you don't have a first hand experience of someone tring to grow something tropical in your zone, you can calculate if something can produce mature fruits where you live.
I found this extremly interesting and useful when i tried to understand if mangos were able to fruit here (if you are curious, i just have the bare minimun requirements).
Unluckly anyway, for mangos there is a great lack of datas. The most important one is the total value of degree-day, while the base temperature, if you lack more precise datas, can be assumed at 12C (54F).   
Anyway, for those interested, this is how this method works: It is called "Degree-Day".

http://www.freshplaza.com/news_detail.asp?id=56494

This site allows you to see the "degree day" for your specific location. Just choose "cooling" to see the accumulation ABOVE the base temperature (this tool was inteded for energy management):

http://www.degreedays.net

This study gives some insight on how it works for commercial orchards.

http://industry.mangoes.net.au/userfiles/file/FR605%20Heat%20sums%20to%20predict%20fruit%20maturity%20in%20Kensington%20Pride%20mangoes.pdf

If people keep track of the day of the flowring of their mangos (and the day when the fruits are ripe), over several years they can calculate the required degree-day for that cultivar.
I hope this useful for someone.

857
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Which cultivars are renamed, or just the same? Label swappers for profit?
« on: February 22, 2012, 06:58:06 AM »
Quote from: fruitlovers on February 07, 2012, 05:34:52 PM

This a taxonomical renaming. Very different than a nursery deciding willy nilly to change the name of a cultivar.
At least taxonomist announce their changes and let you know what all the previous synonyms were.
Oscar

Agree. In addiction botanist abide to a very strict code called "international code of botanical naming" wich has predictable rules for almost everything. Anyway the botanist work is so tought that i won't complain for any mess they can do. Have you ever withnessed the situation of european oaks? Many species, wich live in same area, wich freely hybridize one with another.... you have a species with hairy buds, another with buds withour hairs, and ALL the intermediate situation between those two extremes... naming such things is a nightmare, considering that that thing isn't limited to one character.

On sweetheart issue, in my humble opinion, is the law that shouldn't allow to trademark a cultivar name. From my point of view, a trademark is useful because let the consumer choose between different products, and let him recognize the products of the companies wich already have satisfied his needs. This works well for, say, organic vegetables (wich can be grown in many ways, each own with advantages and disadvatages) and shoes. But is the sweetheart tree sold by company A in any aspect different from the sweetheart tree sold by company B? Well, basically the whole thing behind choosing named varieties is that there ISN'T such difference. So where is the point in trademarking a cultivar name? This won't help the consumer choose a good product from a company he trusts, because all the products with same name are the same thing! If we were talking about patents obviusly it would have been another matter.

858
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mangos from cuttings?
« on: February 21, 2012, 09:04:58 PM »
Well, it's interesting and i'm going to try it if i'll have enough scions this summer. Making enough rootstock seems simple enough. :)
I have found this, for future reference:

http://www.permaculture.org.au/resources_files/farmers_handbook/volume_3/14_stone_grafting.pdf

859
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mangos from cuttings?
« on: February 19, 2012, 04:42:53 PM »
Well, then i'll try something next summer. I don't think i'll be able to try side veneer, but some clefts are definitively possible.

As for rooting cuttings, seems way too hard...

860
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango versus Rollinia
« on: February 19, 2012, 03:50:22 PM »
Let's see this other way round. It is awesome that rollinia made it!

861
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mangos from cuttings?
« on: February 19, 2012, 02:15:10 PM »
Thank everyone for yor answers.
Yes, apparently i need about 2-3 years to grow a rootstock big enough to attempt a graft from seed. At least, the kind of graft i know and i always hear about here (cleft and side-veneer graft). If it is true that i need at least a plant with a steam of the size of a pencil, well, 2-3 years are the quickest i can imagine here (i planted 2 seeds in july 2010 - they were tommies - and they aren't ready yet for grafting).
I didn't knew that i could use a rootstock so young. :o Is there a video or something?

Anyway, apparently nobody roots mango cuttings.

862
Recipes / Re: Limoncello, Orangecello, Grapefruitcello or Pummellocello
« on: February 17, 2012, 05:00:48 PM »
There are a lot of version of this recipe here in italy.
Yours is basically the most classical (even if nobody uses vodka as base here :) ).
I have tasted (but never made) an awesome version of this using tangerines ("mandarini"), about 10 years ago, in sicily.
There is also a version where you use milk instead of water, making a Limoncello cream ("Crema di Limoncello" we call it this way). My grandmother has made it too, and if anyone is interested i can search for a recipe.
(I'm not willing to steal the thread, just adding my two cents  :) )

863
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: First time grafting mango, any tips from the pros?
« on: February 17, 2012, 08:04:15 AM »
Quote from: Squam256 on February 16, 2012, 09:54:01 PM
Make sure your grafting knife is sterilized before doing each graft. Helps increase your rate of take.

I'm not expert about mangos grafts, but at least for grafts in general i found this very true. You'll want everything as clean as possible to increase your take chances.
Another thing i knew is that you better clean everything with alcool, because sometimes producers, to keep the blades shiny, oil them with very little mineral oil (i learned it grafting cactus with razors). This can be problematic, so i clean everything with alcool, i let the alcool evaporate, and only then i use the blade.

864
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Inducing a growt flush
« on: February 16, 2012, 01:43:12 PM »
Uhm... i'm wondering, anyway, if the method shown in the video can be also used with the plants that haven't yet done their first bloom to shorten their juvenile stage.

865
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Mangos from cuttings?
« on: February 16, 2012, 01:40:40 PM »
Hi everyone.
Another silly question.
I have read a bit around about mango cuttings. They have several disadvantages over grafting: poor rooting, weak root system once established etc.
Anyway i find them interesting, since it is a way to propagate mango without the need of a rootstock (the closest nursery selling mangos being 650 miles south of my house, and my summer being too short to let seed grow to an appreciable size before 2-3 years - this means that is hard to grow my own rootstock).
Apparently, as i have read, making the cutting roots isn't easy at all. Hormones and hot beds seems to be involved.
But i wonder if some of you have some direct experience with cuttings, and some suggestion for me if i wanted to try that way.
Thank you for your help! 

866
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« on: February 16, 2012, 01:25:59 PM »
I hope it too! Would be really nice!

867
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Inducing a growt flush
« on: February 16, 2012, 01:23:42 PM »
Thank you Nancy, i'll make use of that videos/suggestions on this summer, when i'll try to make my glenn similiar to yours...   :)
As for now i think i'll wait about two months before "pugging" it... well, it is still too cold, here... so i feat that some "hard pruning" can be the start of some patology...  but aside from this... my plant has some blooms, and i'm so excited that i want to enjoy them as much as i can!  :D

868
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« on: February 15, 2012, 03:01:53 PM »
Quote from: JF on February 15, 2012, 02:21:58 PM
Your data will be useful for folks in the Midwest or Northeast.

This would be really awesome. I really hope it.
I next days i'll try to translate every misure in Imperial and metric units.

869
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Inducing a growt flush
« on: February 15, 2012, 02:59:32 PM »
Hey, Thank You!
Yes, my Glenn survived, and as for now, it is putting out some blooms.
Too bad i'll have do prune it badly this year, to start the size control.
Anyway, i was interested not in inducing blooms, but inducing growt: this because so i can time my grafts, since i need the rootstock in active growt.
(Still the ability to induce bloom can be useful in future for me, so many thanks)

870
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Inducing a growt flush
« on: February 15, 2012, 02:02:22 PM »
Does anyone know if there is a way to induce a growt flush in a mango?
I always tought that they grow when they fell it is the time, but a way to induce it would be nice for timing the grafts.

871
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« on: February 15, 2012, 01:59:37 PM »
I used an electric heater during this cold spell (i mean, since 1st of February). I'm planning to detach it during next few days, based on temperatures.... for sure it works, even if i think it is not the most efficent device, cost wise.

The plant is still alive, and i hope the wrost part of winter is gone.

872
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« on: February 14, 2012, 09:02:29 PM »
@JoeP450: Let's hope it will keep up its reputation! I also have hear nice things about Pulasan, but i doubt i will be able to staste one of them anytime soon. Anyway i don't know if this can work in florida, but for sure some kind of work to keep a pulasan happy can be done. The hardest thing, i think will be find out enough information to make a good plan. This is always the hardest part, in my opinion.

@MangoFang: Oh, Gary, i think i have done an horrible mistake. Just today i removed the frost cloth and the bubble wrap and the plant was fine. I also checked the temperature and coldest has been 3°C just next to the grafting point. I have only found two dead leaves, copper coloured, i think frost damage. I have been convinced to do this by the shiny hot sun we got today (46F). Tonight temperature dropped, and now is 23F and going down. Usually i wouldn't be worried but the heat inside the greenhouse has been depleted in last days, so i don't know it it will be alive tomorrow. Wuold be really ironic (and to be honest, very very stupid) if i would lose it now, the first normal day after those two weeks.

@Adiel: It has some bloom spikes right now, but they grow VERY slowly. But please refer to message sent to mangofang.

@lycheeluva: There will be more, i hope.

@puglvr1: Good luck to you also, Nancy! We won't be happy till this winter will be finished, right?

To everyone: Thank you for reading the entire mess i putted above. If you have been able to finish it you are either very patient, or really a mango maniac.  ;D

873
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« on: February 13, 2012, 06:25:13 PM »
The pictures.

This is the plant few days after being planted in soil, May 2011. The masonry work was finished in February, but i started to build the structure just after the summer.



Little (VERY little) fruits at the end of the first summer. I still don't know what happened, but they lacked embryo.



This is the skeleton of the structure. The picture has been taken in a day close to the equinox. As you can see the wood of the north roof cast almost no shadow.



This is the structure finished.



Side view.



North view.



Conclusion.

I hope you may have found this interesting (or at least, not too boring). This is far from an end, bu so far i'm pretty happy with it. The structure has been able to keep temperature about 10C hotter inside than outside.
Too bad this february italy has been hitted from the wrost cold weather in last 30 years, wich has stopped my experiment abruptly. Last two weeks we have had about 15°C under the average temperatures. No sun, and no day with temperature above 32F for a week. This structure wasn't built to resist such extreme weather, so i needed to put in an heater. But, for the record, those where the minimum temperature taken inside/outside the cover till february:

Before Chisthmas:
Outside: -5,2 Inside: +4,5

25 dicember 2011 - 31 dicember 2011
Outside: -3,1  Inside: +6

1 January 2012 - 7 January
Outside: -2,6    Inside: +6

7 - 14 January

Outside: -4,2  Inside: +7

14 - 22 January

Outside: -5,9  Inside: +5

22 - 31 January

Outside: -5,2  Inside: +6

(You can see last January in my city here: http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/Firenze_Peretola/01-2012/161700.htm )

874
Tropical Fruit Discussion / The plant
« on: February 13, 2012, 06:24:03 PM »
The plant.

After all this time spent on doing my best for this structure i found myself asking what kind of plant was the best for this experiment between the ones i had at disposal. The first question was: since the space is limited should i pick a dwarf or a vigorous grower? Well, even if it is counterintuitive, i choosed the grower, because if it will get some damage i should be able to recover quickly, and some kind of damage is more than possible when you do an experiment.
I had a disposal the following varieties on this side of the ocean: Kensington Pride, Glenn, Tommy Atkins, Keitt, Maya, Van Dyke, Osteen, Kent. These are hard to find in italy, but some sources indicate that you should be able to find them around, so i started searching. After 4 months, i found hte plant i choosed, a Glenn.
Well, i choosed Glenn because it can grow at decent rate, so i hope to be able to let him grow if it becomes damaged. Still it can be pruned and kept in shape. It should be a decent bearer, wich is important, of course. Plus, is said to be very disease resistent, and our winter is very humid. Taste review are always favorable, and the main flaw of the cultivar (the bland taste of the fruits in humid climates) won't be a problem here, where summer is the dry season. Seemed to me hard to beat, honestly.
I planted it around the first days of may in 2011. I already had some flowers and tiny fruits when i planted it.

875
Tropical Fruit Discussion / The heat
« on: February 13, 2012, 06:23:23 PM »
The heat.

At first, as you may have noticed, i tought to make it completly solar passive. I didn't wanted it to consume electricity.
The concept was: "since water has an hig thermal mass, if i put enogh water inside the structure this will make days colder and night warmer". Since the average temperature for the coldest month in my city is well above 32F (0C) i simply needed to keep this temperature long enough. So, i filled the structure with some oil cans (5 L) some plastic cans (20 L) ans some drums (100 L). I have putted inside something like 500 L of water, in containers of different sizes, all around the plant.
After this i panicked. I thought that just in case this shouldn't work would have been wise to make something to save the plant in wrost nights of winter.
I found a chick heater that was composed by an infra-red lamp, and i tougth to add it to the structure. But first measures in last November in the structure convinced me it wasn't needed, so i never installed it.

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