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Messages - Kay

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Durian in Sabah, Borneo?
« on: March 04, 2013, 01:14:40 PM »
Darn, oh well.  Is there another time of year one can find a good durian rush in Borneo?  Dec/Jan are abotu the worst months for me to take time off.  What about summer?

Durian Lover, i sent you a pm now :)


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Pitahaya
« on: March 04, 2013, 01:05:58 PM »
Fruit set is another area needing further research, despite all the work done by the Israelis and others.  I have some plants that have never set fruit with hand self-pollination and thus require cross-pollination.  Even the pollen source for cross-pollination has an influence.  Some crosses will not set fruit, which I assume is because the plants are too closely related.  Also the pollen source for the cross-pollination has an effect on the resulting fruit size.

yes this is common in Cactaceae, not only tropical vine genera.  it is also common for a mix of reproductive abilities within a genera.  I am not sure with Hylcoereus, but in many other genera i have work with it is common to find some species that are closely related to be self-fertile while other species are not.  In some it can happen within a single species, though are often at least considered different varieties.

Pollen source can matter a lot i think too.  I am thinking if pollination is in fact an indicator of fruit size, i wonder if it may simply be a pollen germination or pollen tube problem (which can be likely in case of hybrids).

I think you have identified the root problem.  Since Hylocereus spp. cross so easily between one another, even wild-collected plants can be hybrids.  Some of the early work by Y. Mizrahi would indicate that the species cited in his research were based upon the names provided by the germplasm suppliers.  Later works cited the ID number in the Israeli collection.

yes it big hurdle to deal with.  And the fact that early work wasnt very thorough (not to discredit, but its true) makes it ahrd to go back on sometimes.

If you are at the university, I would recommend tissue culture for the rare species.  This works well for many Cactaceae species.

I am not at university, i do study and breed cactus for many years though.  Fruit is actually my newer passion.   i work in friends personal home TC lab sometimes.  we are building new farm which will have a tc room, but i dont find it necessary for Hylocereus as it grows and grafts very easy.  It funny, when using Hylcoereus as graft stock in humid times i can actually grow callous tissue in open air in my greenhouse.  Not clean, but fun to see.  also shows that despite Hylocereus resistance to moisture, bacteria/fungal rot is still a problem.

fyliu  thank you for link, that is a very interesting site!  I will email him when we return from vacation and see if he would like to chat.  I know there are lots of people working on Hylcoereus here, maybe not like Israel.  Here more basic breeding and culling to get better table fruit.  one breeder i know is working on yellow skinned red fleshed fruit, that was a few years ago, not sure how its going.

About being self-sterile... Hybrids can have any combination of problems that prevent them from setting fruit: dysfunctional ovaries, lack of pollen, stamen too far outside the flower, flowers refuse to take pollen from the same genotype, weak pollen that take too long to travel to ovaries. If it's simply the stamen being too long, it's self-fertile but not self-pollinating. Pollen from reds tend to travel slower than pollen from whites, and that contributes a lot to red fruits not setting. You should really have a true white H. undatus to use as a pollinator.

yes that is true.  here there are numerous species and hybrids growing wild. everything hylcoereus here is open pollinated unless part of special breeding groups.  and there is little fruit set problems here.  but there are "varieties" known locally that just rarely set fruit.  they are well known and farmers can ID them (i cant).   I strongly suspect more than anything it is as simple as natural pollinators.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Curator's Choice Mangoes Posted
« on: March 04, 2013, 12:49:32 PM »
Yuwen was bred in Taiwan I believe ,a cross between "Iwen" and Chinghuang,  so it doesn't have an English name besides "Yuwen". I think I'd also seen it called "Yuwen Red".

I believe I-wen is "Irwin", a mango from Florida that is grown commercially in Taiwan and Japan.

yes, correct.  Yu-wen (there are sometimes many different spelling of Chinese in English due to different pinyin systems in case anyone had trouble with Chinese stuff) is considered here the new and improved I-wen, and it is.  They are my favorite.

2kg, very possible.  i should weigh this season to check individual average.  sometimes like a small watermelon for size.  very little fibre and the taste is VERY sweet.  amazing mango.  we use in drinks and that too.  I am vegetarian so in mango season i will eat a full one for lunch and thats all i need, it actually makes me feel too full sometimes.  But locally there are over 30 accepted "varieties" of Yu-wen.

"Yuwen Red" i dont know, but here translated there is an Yu-wen apple.  apple mangoes are the smaller rounder red ones you see from mexico a lot.  Sorry i know very little about English variety name of mango.  But essentially it has the skin like those mexican red ones with the size and general taste/quality of the yuwen.  they hit the market big last year in Taiwan, this mango season is going to have some nice new ones i think hit the shelves.

I have I-wen grafted on my tree's 4 times now. Is it a nice one Kay? Yu-wen is the mango from 4 lbs (2kg) right? How is that one tasting?

best i ever have, but my trees will flower next year, so far i only buy them or take from friends trees.  yours flower yet? I only try mango from north america and asia though.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Pitahaya
« on: March 03, 2013, 01:56:32 PM »
That is a good observation.  Moths, bats, some species of bees and even a butterfly in the Maduca genus are reportedly possible pollinators.  Another possibility is that the self-pollination trait has been cross bred into a red-fleshed type.

Yes lots of possibilities.  but i think personally that dragon fruit isnt truly self-sterile, it just has good flower morphology to prevent self fertilization.  Do the people who have to hand pollinate ever get any fruit at all if they have a number of flowers that are not hand pollinated?

This is a very common misconception - identifying Hylocereus species based on the flesh color rather than the traditional morphological characteristics of the flowers and plant.  Looking at the original descriptions by Britton and Rose, they made no such distinctions. Some of the distinguishing characteristics related to stems used by researchers are number of spines (ranging from 0 to 8 or more per areole), distance between areoles, depth of the undulation between areoles, stem color, and those that apply to the flower are too numerous to list but include flower size, color, whether or not the stigmas are forked, etc.

yes this is why i find it so hard.  cactus taxonomy is basically bad at best, but seems Hylcoereus classification puts a lot of weight behind rib form and flower morphology.  I have keyed out plants to find they are wrong as to their description leading me to the belief the study is incomplete/under studied (usually the case with cactus) or that all the plants we have grown were hybrids, although we used to grow wild collect seed too and still have variation outside of descriptions.  Are PDFs allowed to be posted here if we dont own them or have permission?

here, no one really knows much about the taxonomy other than those in science parks, museums or schools.  market place has Chinese varieties but their origins are barely known and people here unfortunately dont keep records well for this kind of thing, so it is commonly just said undatus = white and poly = red, which isnt very accurate i agree.

I never know about hormone treatment used with Hylcoereus, thank you for saying.  I have interest in inducing flowers in rarer cactus species which are harder to grow up form seed, so more flowers and seed better chance.

Roy, apparatus Hylocereus polyrhizus is now a synonym of Hylocereus lemairei.

As plant get reclassified they get new names but a record of the old name must remain, and is called a synonym.

There are far more Hylocereus species and Selenicerues species than listed there, and it seems strange to call Cereus and others dragon fruit as they are very different, and even in market wouldnt be confused.  It is first time i see those other genera listed as "dragon fruit".

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Curator's Choice Mangoes Posted
« on: March 03, 2013, 05:53:10 AM »
Do anyone know the English variety names of ones we have in Taiwan called "Yu-wen" and "I-wen"?

Skin is pink-yellow, can get up to 700g, not much fiber.  just huge and really nice eating.  but bruise easy and not ship well i dont think.  I try find English info but not have much luck.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Pitahaya
« on: March 03, 2013, 05:47:43 AM »
here in Taiwan i am not sure if red/purple fruit are self fertile or if we have natural pollinators, but red here are commercially grown and no hand pollination.  Sometimes i wonder about hawk moths.

Red is usually said to be Hylocereus polyrhizus, not undatus.  they seem to hybridize OK.  but identification of Hylocereus genus seem very hard.

Purple/red are notably smaller than many commercial large ones which can reach over 1/2 kg, but the bigger ones always lack taste.  many commercial fruit like this i think.

unattended true dark purple ones here grown without fertilizer or pruning tend to be little larger than a tennis ball, and white would be like an oval softball.  but purple ones that are selected and pampered get up to maybe 3-400g.

Hylocereus also seem to flower based on photoperiod, so some farms can use lighting to try and control fruiting time more.  it is getting close to a 12 month season here.

I personally also notice huge variation in flavor based on dirt type.  you can almost taste the soil int eh fruit sometimes, so fruit grown near dirty areas often have horrible fruit taste i think.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Durian in Sabah, Borneo?
« on: March 03, 2013, 05:33:08 AM »
Hello.  Next week 3 of use travel to Sabah again to see everything.  We are really hoping to try new types of durian, especially red color ones which look very amazing!  Last time we go Borneo we dont find any durian, even the more common commercial ones.  I am wondering if its is very seasonal or maybe we look in wrong places?    Our trip start in Kota Kinnabalu and we rent car and go sandakan, do river kinnabatangan and also go out to Pulau Tiga.  Are those areas have chances to try durian?

How can we find market for some of the interesting different kinds we see on internet?  So far we get to try Thailand varieties and Malaysian varieties on penninsula.  But Borneo not yet.

Thank you for any suggestions.  Unfortunately slightly too cold for Durian where I live, so we have to have import or travel to eat.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Introduce Yourself
« on: March 03, 2013, 05:27:58 AM »
Hello everyone.  We are in Taiwan.  Little cooler than many tropical areas but still above 15 year round.

We have some land where we grow lots of different kinds of fruit and like to travel and try new kinds where we go :)

Next week we go Borneo and I hope to try new types of Durian!

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