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Hello again

Sorry for my late replies but it's not easy to keep an ongoing conversation with some 5 or more hours of "jet lag" between Portugal and the rest of you guys. Here are the answers to your questions:

To ScottR:
All my plants of Ubajai are from the same seed batch received from Helton on October 2007, so they have 5 years by now... just one of them flowered and fruited for the first time now... just two fruits tough... the one on the previous photos and an even bigger one that is still on the tree and that should ripen during next days...

to Luc:
My seeds were not loose...I think you still can see some fibers attached to the seed on the photo... I will try to take a photo of the inside of the other fruit when it ripens...if the birds don't get there first!... I'm letting it overripe to see if I can sense some strange odor (like the one reported on the Uruguayan article) because I didn't noted nothing wrong with the odor of my first fruit.

I took a photo of the leaves to show you the differences; the 2 leaves on the left are from the tree that fruited, and the one on the right is from the other Ubajai with the bluish tinged leaves (not really noticeable now but the blue tinge is very evident when the leaves are younger)

This difference on the leaves shape, color and general aspect was evident right from the beginning and in fact I always treated the tree with the slender/greener leaves better than all the others because it was prettier, and diferent... don't know if this is the reason why it fruited first... and I need now the get one of the others to fruit to see if there is some noticeable difference on the fruits also...

Regarding the taste of "garlic" on these species former classified as "Hexaclamys spp." I have one that really tastes like garlic...  seeds arrived also on the same package and if fruited last year for the first time... it arrived labelled as Hexaclamys tomentosa, and now I believe Helton calls it Eugenia anomala... this one is pure "garlic"!... last year photos next:

The fruit shape and color is very similar to the ones of the Ubajai that fruited this year, but on this Hexaclamys tomentosa the leaves are much more slender and the tree habit is more "Bushy"... Is it possible that I have an hybrid between these two Hexaclamys spp. ???

Hello all

My "Ubajai" is fruiting for the first time now and I finally tasted my first fruit... and I liked it a lot!...

I had many doubts about this one because I've read several descriptions online stating this fruit had a flavor like a mixture of "uvaia and garlic"... others say "uvaia and onions"... even Helton on his book "Colecionando frutas-Vol.1" describes the taste as a mixture of uvaia+ pineapple+garlic... but to me it just reminded me of the Uvaia taste, although a very strong and concentrated uvaia taste (the tart/acid Uvaia, not the sweet one, which I don't have yet)...
I hope that at least those of you that have tasted uvaia could understand what I am saying here because it has a taste of it's own and I don't find it similar to any other "commercial" fruit...
Although it has a strong and different taste I do enjoyed it and I could eat some more fruits right away if they were ripe yet... so that's enough for me and definitely now this one is a "keeper" on my myrtaceae collection... and the fruits are "HUGE" for a Eugenia spp. and very beautiful too... I can see a great future on this species with just some selection, at least for the home grower because the skin is so thin that it should not travel very far...
In fact this is another fruit that I consider is not well documented (in terms of photos) on the Lorenzi's blue book... there the fruits seem white inside and seem to have a hollow space around the seed... maybe the Lorenzi's fruits were not fully ripe yet (?)... my fruits were of a most beautiful yellow color and there was no cavity around the seed which was very small in effect, so the flesh to seed ratio is also a very good characteristic on this fruit...
I have found my experience much closer to that reported on the "Spanish language" article "ubajai.pdf" and I do agree with the author when he says that is very difficult to discuss "tastes" and for sure there are people who love it and people who don't... I'm glad to be on the "loving group"! can find this article here:‎

Other very important thing for me on this species is that it seems hardy to at least the 9a climate (usually if it grows at Uruguay it means 9a hardy to me)...although the tree that fruited is still on my GH for now, and the trees outside have not flowered yet (all from the same batch of seeds)... in fact this tree that fruited first was kept inside the GH because from the beginning it showed some differences to all the others on the same seed batch... leaves are greener and slender, apparently less furred, while all others have "greyish/blueish" furred leaves, more like the leaves photoed on the Lorenzi's book... other difference is that all others trees born from the same seed batch exhibited a totally deciduous behavior during winter (even one inside the GH) and this one don't... so I just don't know if this is just the normal variations typical of the Eugenia family or something else... just in case I am trying to reproduce this one before testing it outside and risking to freeze it...
There is still another fruit on my tree, that in fact seems even bigger than this first one and it should ripe soon... I'm thinking to let this one overripe a little bit just to see if I can detect the strong odor that is often described online also...

Are there other opinions on this fruit out there?
Enjoy the photos!

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mexican babys
« on: May 29, 2013, 05:43:56 PM »
Thanks Ed and Ethan! I think I got the seeds about 6 month ago...

Mr Silva, I don´t know how the limoncillo will take my soil and microclimate, but I take the challenge  ;D go limoncillo, go!

Hola Felipe,  ;D
They will surely do great at your location...Will see if Limoncillo does great over here too :)

Awesome, the race is on, Amigo :)

Do you want in? Then the triangle of Limoncillo's will be complete ;D

Sure! But I have some head start, which is only fair given my handicap (latitude)  :)

Olá Sérgio,
Fantástico, the triangle is complete :) My Limoncillo has two growth Felipe's :)

Let's do our best and get this badboy to produce in Europe 8) I am going to beat you guys :-)  ;D

BTW Felipe, Does Alexi grow Limoncillo too?

Hello all European Limoncillo racers!

I was checking some old posts and stepped on this great European contest... I just want to confirm that I entered this race yesterday when I received some seeds from a really nice gentleman in Puerto Vallarta... thanks again Luc!

So now it's a European square and I will give all my best to recover from my late start!... although the latitude handicap is now mine!


are your candolleanas fruiting?

I've noticed there's several variants...I have at least two.  One has slender leaves, one has wider leaves.

hello Adam...
is this what you mean (pics)? ... they are all from the same batch of seeds but they do seem to vary a lot... not just the shape of the leaves but the general behavior also... I have some that grow vertically, others don't...some that lose all leaves during winter even on the GH... others stay evergreen...
I'm waiting for all them to fruit to check if there are differences on fruits also

Do you guys know this one?
In my humble opinion this is a must have Psidium spp. specially if you live on a colder area like I do... but apparently it's still very rare around even among collectors... at least I have not seen it discussed before here on the forum and there isn't much information online also...

Let me share some of my experience with this one to you all:
I think I first received seeds from Brazil of this species around 2007 or 2008 and they arrived only labeled as " Araçã roxo folha larga", meaning something like "Purple Araçã with large leaves “and describing it as a south Brazilian “Araçã” variety originated from frosty areas...
Sprouting was OK and plants grew very fast, much faster than normal Psidium cattleyanum to which the leaves seemed very similar in appearance at the beginning, only larger... so for years I kept thinking this was just another purple Psidium cattleyanum who is not so rare, so I didn't gave it much attention...
All my plants were in pots at the GH and growing faster than P.cattleyanum but a little bit restrained by the not so big pots where they were growing... but one plant that I gave to a friend and that he planted in the ground (on 2009 or 2010) grew very much almost immediately and fruited on the same season... and then he told me the fruits were good and a little different from the normal araçã... I then decided to look a little closer to this tree and I became clear that it was not the Psidium cattleyanum… so my collector interest grew and I decided to re-pot and pay some more attention to my own plants... and then started trying to correct identify what species was this...
After several attempts I realized that on the EJardim blog when Eduardo posted about the strawberry-guava he made a reference that on south Brazil, on upper grounds (serras), the common Psidium cattleyanum was replaced by a much bigger species with the name Psidium longipetiolatum…That's it!...
Eduardo Jardim say this one can reach 25 to 30 meters high !... it doesn't surprised me so much as 3 meters on a 20 litter pot in only 2 years was my personal experience!... latter Helton posted also one photo of red fruits with this scientific name saying it started fruiting at 2011 at his place also, and speaking about 8 meters high ( less than EJardim but also a big tree for sure)... one common accepted name in Brazil seems to be "Araçã-Goiaba".
Well my plants started fruiting last year and the fruit were about the size of red Strawberry-guavas (+/- 3 cm diameter), but rounder and with a long pedicel, with seeds that were apparently bigger but also undetectable, at least in my mouth, and with a very good flavor that I rate very similar or even superior to the Psidium cattleyanum fruits.
Unfortunately I don't have pictures from the last year’s fruits but if you Google "Psidium longipetiolatum" you will find some photos of the fruits... look for those from Anestor who are very good as always...
For the moment I can only show you some photos of the other special details of this species and some comparisons with the common Psidium cattleyanum so you can understand what I am saying here:

For start pics of some older leaves who have a typical heart shape:

Just compare these leaves with a normal Psidium cattleyanum leaf (on my hand):

Even tip branches leaves are bigger than those of the strawberry-guava ( P.cattleianum leaves on the background):

and the flowers buds are big, with a long stalk, and grow up vertically:

just compare the size of the flowers with those of Psidium cattleyanum (on the right):

This plant of the pics is still on my GH and is flowering for the first time now; on the GH they stay evergreen during all winter, but the plants that fruited last year on my GH were planted outside by December 2012 and they spent all winter outside where they probably faced -5ºC ; Those plants outside exhibited a total deciduous behavior and quickly became stripped of all leaves; Not really sure if this is normal behavior or just a reaction to the choke of being transferred from the GH to the outside without any adaptation period... next winter will tell;
Anyway those outside plants are now sprouting nicely and the only apparent difference to those on the GH is a delay of some weeks (or months?) on flowering... and I'm also waiting to see if they fruit OK outside. By the way the fruit set on the GH was close to 100% of the flowers... and ripe fruit fall to the ground without any visible damage...

This is the actual situation of one of the outside plants sprouting now:

I will try to post pics of the fruits latter (when in season) if I can just to complement this description;
I do think this "Araçâ" can really "push limits" to those living in a area too cold for the strawberry-guava... maybe by a full climate zone or two... you just have to have the space to accommodate such a big tree!


Please do not call it Nepalese Lapsi,it is simply Lapsi/Lapsee.
Some of the seedlings,atleast Guillermo from Puerto Rico repoted,are doing well
from seeds sent by me to some persons mainly in USA.

The fruit is sour first and sweet then or vice versa ,little pulp,it is some time called candy fruit.
It is dioecious and so you need 4-5 plants so that you get 1 female.

The fruit is popular among nepalese/gurkha people but this tree is wildly grown throughout Nepal,Sikkim,Darjeeling and entire North East.

I can arrange these seeds in season.


OPS!!!... Sorry Roy... please believe me when I say that I didn't want to create any diplomatic incident by calling it "Nepalese"... the only reason was that my last unsuccessful attempt to get this one was trough an University in Austria that were doing some kind of research and selection work on this species at Nepal...

Anyway thank you very much for your generous offer... Can I recall you again when in season?... and by the way when will be the correct season for fruit maturity?

Thank you on advance and best regards

Hello all.

I've been on a "active search mode" for this one for quite a while now but without any success so far...

This seems the Spondias to have if you live on a 9a climate like I do... I know it's diouecious and a very big tree, and in Nepal they started selecting some varieties with good and bigger fruits...

Any experiences, comments or help will be most welcome!

Thanks in advance

Those are some nice sized pitangatubas. I like Adam's name star cherry and may adopt that one. I think in this case portuguese names pitangatuba or pitanga carambola are too much of a tongue twister for most Americans.  ;)
Miguel, when you have a chance it would be nice to see some photos of your greenhouse. How do you heat it?


Sorry for my late reply but the only noted your questions about my GH now...
The only pic of my GH that I have here now is from 29 March when we had a flood here ... Apparently this is an extremely rare event because it only happens with some special combination between lots of rain and very high tides on the Atlantic ocean that difficult the drainage of the river to the ocean... and it only lasts some hours ( the duration of the high tide) but this time the water arrived at almost 1,5 meter high inside my GH... according to the neighbors this only happened in 1974 and then again in 2000... I bought this place on 2005 and it was the first time I saw it...

Anyway, specially the myrtaceae seemed to have adored it because they started flowering like crazy after all this water... and really does any of you guys goes to this extremes so that Camu-Camu and Plinia rivularis can feel at home at 40ºNorth ???

The GH dimensions are more or less 18 meters long x 11 meters large (at base level) and 4,5 meters high on the middle of the ceiling arch...and I don't heat my GH ever... the only protection from the cold outside is the plastic sheet... nothing else!

Hello Adam

Yes... they are elongated here... and I do also found strange when I saw some pics of more roundish Pitangatubas on-line... maybe there are variations like other pitangas (???)... or just being closer to the magnetic north pole stretches them...

Never seen this one discussed here on the forum but maybe I'm just distracted...

Happy to report that this one is a total winner for me just because I've left 2 females in pots outside this winter and they are re-sprouting nicely now in spring... so this seem to be the papaya to have if you live on a 9a zone... still need to check if it fruit outside as it does inside the GH but now I have to grow a male again because the only male that I had died because of rotten root this winter... did not really understood why because the several females were all ok... fortunately I had planted seeds from last years fruit and now I just have to wait to identify another reproducing male.

Fruits are interesting enough to grow and this at least a good "conversation piece"... Helton and Lorenzi say that the branches are also edible and used in Brazil to prepare some kind of local sweet desert and that is threatening this species in the wild... I have not tried the branches yet but will do it someday for sure... I think Helton also said on his book that someone is Brazil is testing the branches to floculate milk and prepare some kind of cheese... seems very versatile this one!

Sorry for the bad quality pics but i don't have others now...

Hello again.

Apparently this one is not so new anymore but I decided to report how this one goes here at north Portugal.

I do like to call this one PITANGA CARAMBOLA just because every time I show these pics to someone they say they know this fruit and it's a Carambola... but Pitangatuga is also a very good name.

Well this one does great here on my GH and has been fruiting for 3 years now and each year produces more and more... and the scent/smell of the fruit is just marvelous... absolutely fantastic... in fact the first fruit from this one was discovered by the smell because one day when entering the GH I noted the most incredible scent and became evident that there was something new there... until that moment I was not aware of the fruit because while still green the fruits are hidden on the foliage.
Another big advantage is the fact that it flowers and fruits almost continually from June to October/November.

Enjoy the pics (first pic from 28 June 2012 : 2º pic 08 August 2012)

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: More info about Allophylus edulis
« on: May 08, 2013, 05:38:46 PM »
I have one single plant of Allophylus edulis also here in Portugal, but too young and too small (2 ft max) so no flowers for the moment... Probably have to wait some more years to see if I have the same problem as you do... but also I do not know anybody else growing this one outside Brazil... This one interest me a lot because being original from south Brazil I'm hoping it holds my 9a climate here.
My seeds arrived from my friend Helton in Brazil and he wrote about this plant on his book, but I don't remember nothing about this one being dioecious (???)... If you want I can check the book latter and report it to you.


are your candolleanas fruiting?

I've noticed there's several variants...I have at least two.  One has slender leaves, one has wider leaves.

My candolleanas don't fruit yet... have several from a single batch of seeds from Helton (maybe from 2008 or 2009 ?)... my biggest one is only some 70 cm tall and they don't seem very strong... maybe this was a bad batch of seeds or they just need some more time... even if the seeds were from the same batch there are differences on the leaves between different plants so really don't know what I have here...

Once again I just want to thank you all for the warm welcome to the forum... really appreciated it!... muitissimo obrigado a todos!... gracias amigos!... grazie per tutti!... merci à tous et à toutes ici!.... forgot to say that I speak all these 5 languages so feel free to PM me in the one language that suits you most.

Finishing for today... here past 01 AM and tomorrow there's work to be done... bye-bye... see you all tomorrow!


how do you like those yellow pitangas??  Is E. selloi much different than far as resinous taste, or sweetness?

never heard of that one!

You keep pulling magic tricks out of your bag!

I'm impressed!  :o  :D

Adam... the yellow is just temporary.. they end up becoming orange (see the previous pic with the neonitida and the black pitanga)... taste is very good for a pitanga  (sweet without resin taste)...  and the plant habit and leaves are slitly diferent, and also they seem to take longer to mature than other pitangas.... I got this one from a nursery in Italy and it was labeled as Eugenia selloi... the only book that I have that speaks about it (a Portuguese Book - Fruticultura Tropical- from A.Serrão) claims this one is a yellow fruited myrtaceae so I keep calling it Yellow... but our friend Helton thinks this one is just another pitanga... not sure if it's the orange one from the Lorenzi blue book

Olá Miguel,
Bem vindo ao fórum de frutas tropicais :)

I'm totally speechless...What a collection!!! :o 8) You sure are pushing the limits growing these species in the north...thanks for sharing :)

Olá Steven... muito obrigado pelo acolhimento e pelas simpáticas palavras!... entre nós creio que até podemos trocar plantas sem problemas... o tio Alberto João Jardim ainda não instalou alfandega na Madeira???... ou já???

Answering to Nullzero:
the taste is fantastic and the seed to flesh ratio also... like a very good Cherry of the Rio Grande... when overripe this calycina goes almost totally black and fattens the belly with the most amazing juicy flesh... see next pic.

Magical Myrtaceae Man Miguel...

how did you crack the "cerrado curse" of E. calycina?

The fruits look like fingerlimes crossed with cherry of rios.  I love the elongated appearance.

thanks for posting so many pics!

I didn't do nothing special really because at the beginning I was not aware of the CERRADO CURSE... only latter when after killing several mama-cadelas and other cerrado stuff I realized this terrible CURSE... I do really think this one is a winner because from a batch of 2007 seeds this one grew much more than her sisters/brothers... and fruited while all the other are still just sticks... it was on a big pot until last year and this is the first year on the ground... here's me hoping I did not made a mistake by putting it on the ground... let's see... I'm betting this one should be graft compatible with the Cherry of the Rio Grande, but I'm not a good grafter for the moment but willing to learn fast... Hey Adam can you give private lessons?... I've seen an older post from you on this subject but but the pics are no longer there !

And more pics... please tell when enough is enough...

Guabiroba rugosa ( Campomanesia schlechtendaliana) and Eugenia selloi (yellow pitanga)

Thank you Adam and Luc for the warm welcome... the calycina is in flower ritgh now.... it flowers twice... keep your fingers crossed for fruits and maybe seeds will arrive soon to MX and Fl than you expect... Hey Luc I do want mattosi seeds... i don't have that one yet... thank you!

Now that I know how to post pics... some more:

First flowers on the Cerrado pear / Pêra do mato... this thing is only some 15 cm tall ( 3 years I guess)... claiming to be the first one in mainland Europe to take this one to flower... hoping to be the first one to fruit this... is there a GUINESS book on this stuff

some more pics:

This is the one that Helton used to call Hexaclamis tomentosa and now calls Eugenia anomala... beautiful fruit which tastes like garlic... but being the BACALHAU the Portugal national dish i'me keeping it on my collection... and this one is outside so it takes 9a climate!

last pic is an Hexaclamys edulis or Eugenia myrcianthes fruiting the first time now... waiting for the ripe fruits to check the garlic content on this one.

YES... the pics came out OK... Thank you NULZERO!

By the way the last pic is a comparison between a Cherry of the Rio Grande (seedless) and the Calycina fruit.

Now the rest of the pics:

Eugenia pitanga ( from Cerrado with love and without the CURSE... normal and round ones... last pic is a comparisson between neonitida/ Eugenia pitanga black/ Eugenia selloi

Lets see if i can post pics now... Eugenia calycina photos for start... these ones seem much better to me than the photos on Lorenzi's book... maybe I have a winner here!

Sorry guys for the too long post... and the photos didn't show out!...still learning as i said before...excuse me!

How do I post pics here?...please help!


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Obscure myrtaceae...from north Portugal
« on: May 06, 2013, 04:43:25 PM »
 Hello all!... my name is Miguel and I live in Portugal, near the city of Aveiro (latitude 40º40' north) on Portuguese northwest coast. I do follow this forum for some time now but never had the courage to jump in... until now!
I live some 20 km inland from the Atlantic coast and normal climate here is 9b but my garden is at river valley floor and that gives me a 9a climate because it accumulates a lot of cold by drainage effect;
There I have a 200 sq. meters, 4.5 meters tall, unheated greenhouse dedicated solely to "rare stuff" and that gives me probably a 9b inside the greenhouse with the added benefit of the extra heat.
I've been collecting rare stuff since 2005/2006 when I bought my place and became interested on this... My first and most important supplier was my very good Brazilian friend Helton Josué that I believe most of you know well... I have the pleasure and honor to have his book "Coleccionando frutas-Vol 1" autographed with a special dedicatory where he treats me as a "colaborador"!... that’s one of my little treasures of this hobby!... but since then I have exchanged a lot of different stuff with a lot of nice people... most of them are now good friends.
My experience so far has demonstrated that the myrtaceae family is the one that thrives and rewards me the most on my conditions and that's my main focus for the moment... Here I have acid soil and acid water and that’s an added bonus for this particular family myrtaceae... In fact my place is near the city who claims to be the Portuguese Blueberry capital...
I have also some plants at my father’s house that is some 60 km south from here where the climate is 9b but water and soil are slightly alkaline.
Just to give you an idea of the different conditions I am dealing with I can tell you that at my place near Aveiro I have killed by freezing outside the GH several cherimoyas, macadamias, white sapotes and even one half meter tall Jaboticaba ... inside the greenhouse all these things thrive well and I even can get to have litchis, logans and even mangos (mangos do suffer a lot on wintertime)... at my father's place it's possible to have cherimoyas and white sapotes outside without problems... I hope this gives you all a clear idea of my conditions... anyway this forum seems the right place to report successes and failures and exchange ideas and questions because as far as I’ve seen this is the only place where there are talks about rare and obscure stuff that I’m actually growing by myself by the "test and failure" method because there aren't many detailed information out there...
I intend to gradually test and report which ones of these rare and obscure stuff can handle the 9a climate outside and this forum seems a nice place to report and discuss results... hope this would be my little contribution to mankind, or at least to the mankind fraction that likes different fruits and flavors and have a climate with colder temperatures than minus 3 º Celsius!... to me in fact this -3º Celsius seem a very important border to deal with specially when we are talking about rare myrtaceae stuff...
I'm trying to attach some photos just to document what I am saying here (hope they came out ok...first time here...still learning)

Some rare stuff from my little collection and some status info:

Diferent guabirobas (Campomanesias spp.):
Campomanesia schechtendaliana var. rugosa (fruiting already)
Campomanesia adamantium (flowering now) and Campomanesia cambessedeana ( Lozenzi puts them together on the “Blue Book” but Helton used to have them separated)
Campomanesia xanthocarpa (guabiroba)
Campomanesia xanthocarpa var.littoralis (guabiroba da praia/restinga)... fruiting
Campomanesia sessiliflora (flower a lot but no fruits yet)
Campomanesia guazumifolia (sete-capotes)... fruiting
Campomanesia phaea (cambuci)… growing
Other rare eugenias, psidiums and Myrciaria/Plinia that I am growing here:
Eugenia anomala ( Helton use to call it Hexaclamys tomentosa)... fruited last year for the 1ºtime
Eugenia myrchiantes ( or Hexaclamys edulis)...fruiting now
Psidium guineense ( have 2 diferent ones)...both fruiting since 2012
Psidium longiopetalum (araçã-goiaba)...fruiting since 2012.
Psidium australe var. suffruticosum… fruiting
Eugenia calycina ( Cerrado cherry - fruiting since 2012... I've cracked the Cerrado Curse on this one)
Eugenia pitanga ( Cerrado pitanga...several diferent ones... fruiting since 2011... no Cerrado Curse)
Eugenia klotchiana ( Cerrado pear...2 diferent ones... one flowering for the first time now...hoping to be the first to fruit this one at mainland Europe)
Eugenia negrensis... fruiting
Eugenia florida... fruiting
Eugenia speciosa (laranjinha do mato)... flowering now.
Eugenia selloi... fruiting
Eugenia blasthanta
Eugenia candolleana
Eugenia neonitida (Pitangatuba)
Eugenia pyriformis / Eugenia uvalha…uvaias (round, pear, several diferent ones fruiting)
Myrciaria delicatula (Cambui amarelo/ yellow)
Plinia edulis (cambucá)
Plinia rivularis
Jaboticabas ( M. jaboticaba ; M. cauliflora ; M. trunciflora ... waiting for the hybrid Jaboticaba to arrive...)
Things that I've fruited already but eliminated because of terrible bad taste:
Psidium myrtoides
Psidium eugenifolia
Of course I also have grumixamas, cherries of rio grande, pitombas, pitangas, guavas, strawberry guavas, feijoas but theses don’t seem to be so rare anymore… 

Looking forward to exchange some ideas and thoughts with all you fruit nuts.


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