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Messages - simon_grow

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Rare pineapples
« on: September 19, 2017, 10:48:19 PM »
My first tops I got from Jude were also cut out but the center grew. I wonder what caused the first ones to grow out and these later ones to grow suckers? I have a lot of White Jade clones now but very few White Sugarloaf so I'm going to keep all of them for now. I'll definitely start thinning them once I have enough plant material. Thanks for the tip Jimmy!


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: foliar spray
« on: September 19, 2017, 08:39:37 PM »
I just re read your post and feeding twice a month with 10-52-10 is waaaay too much Phosphorus. Mango trees in San Diego get a strong enough bloom stimulus from the cold weather and if your trees are young, you want them to grow big vegetatively and reach adult size before trying to get fruit. If your trees are mature, drought stress will also help stimulate blooms depending on the species.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Rare pineapples
« on: September 19, 2017, 08:34:02 PM »
Here's a picture of a top I got about two months ago with three clones coming out of it.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: foliar spray
« on: September 19, 2017, 08:13:33 PM »
Here's a few pictures of some plants that started looking really nice and flushing with healthy growth after I started using the Nutricote and other fertilizers. I believe Nutricote made a big difference for me because I'm a busy guy and often skip fertilizer applications. The Nutricote is controlled release and it only makes up about 50% of my total fertilizer input so even if I neglect my foliar or monthly ground applications, my trees are still getting some nutrients from the controlled release fertilizer.
Potted Grafted Lychee and close up

Potted seedling Lychees

Potted double rootstock seedling mango

In ground trees are doing great as well, including this Florida rootstock Lemon Zest tree although it still has lots of issues such as gummosis, multiple cracks in trunk, droopy branches which I pruned off and it only sets nubbin fruit.

In ground seedling mangos


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Rare pineapples
« on: September 19, 2017, 06:11:11 PM »
Rich soils and over fertilization seems to have created many offspring from my tops. I have several tops from Kuai White Sugarloaf Pineapples I ordered about a month ago and put them in rich soil with small amounts of slow release 18-6-8 Nutricote and they are sending off good amounts of clones.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: foliar spray
« on: September 19, 2017, 06:06:49 PM »
Here is a good thread on foliar spraying

When my trees are holding fruit I use an organic ultra bloom type fertilizer such as 0-10-10 such as this one from EB stone

I do and have used the chemical ultra bloom to stimulate flowering in my plumeria and other fruit trees but I only use it once during the pre bloom period.

For ground applications I use a combination of Gro-Power premium 8-6-8 Citrus and Avocado combined with controlled release Nutricote 18-6-8. I only recently started using the Nutricote but have seen excellent growth ever since I started. I like the Nutricote because I only need to apply once a year. For the Gro Power, I give very small feedings once a month during active growth.

I usually foliar with Southern Ag Citrus/Palm nutritional spray for the minors and I use Dyna grow foliage pro for an all around balanced foliar. I also use a non ionic sticker, whatever's on sale.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango flowering times?
« on: September 18, 2017, 10:31:20 PM »

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Red Spanish Pineapple Plants
« on: September 17, 2017, 03:41:28 PM »
Those things look like they're about ready to fruit already. Beautiful healthy looking plants, keep us updated.


The tree will likely be low and bushy because the entire top is gone. I'm not sure how much damage you sustained during Irma but I would hazard to guess you have other projects you would rather spend your money on than another tree if you could possibly salvage this one. Maybe you can at least use it for scions?


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: White Jade Pineapple
« on: September 16, 2017, 03:17:09 PM »
This article linked by Waterbug in another thread says that plants with basal suckers and slips yield smaller fruit.

Once I have enough clones, I will start selecting superior plants which yield larger and sweeter fruit with fewer clones. The basal slips and suckers do however appear to help with shading and prevent potential sun burn which is a worry for my hot dry summers here in San Diego.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Edward mango: mono or poly embryonic seed?
« on: September 16, 2017, 03:09:53 PM »
A couple of informative articles here on polyembryony. If I understand them correctly:
1. Polyembryony isn't "all or none". You can expect up to a 10% incidence of monoembrionic seeds in a polyembrionic variety and vice versa.
2. Some embryos from a polyembrionic seed are fertilized (zygotic). The others are produced non-sexually (somatic) and are genetically identical to the mother plant so are effectively clones of the tree that produced the fruit. Unfortunately, without genetic testing, the only way to identify the clones is to wait until they bear fruit.
3. The "cloned" seedlings of a polyembryonic seed can become more vigorous plants than a parent plant produced by several generations of vegetative propagation.

I've just raised 8 seedlings from fruits of the same tree. One produced 4 plants whereas the seeds all of the others produced only a single seedling.

That's my understanding as well. Polyembryonic mangos can also have a single seedling pop and it could be mono.


I would keep it and see if you get any new growth in the next couple weeks. If the canopy was decent size, it probably has enough stored energy reserves to push new growth.


Thanks for the heads up! Pasadena is a bit far for me so I'll wait till they show up locally. I've had the Coechella grown Keitts get to 20% Brix and they were excellent. Keitts can also be eaten green and crunchy.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: White Jade Pineapple
« on: September 13, 2017, 08:26:13 AM »
Some water and nutrients will probably also be absorbed from in between the leaves.

Hawaiian commercial growers foliar feed in the cup using boom sprayers.  Water is applied via irrigation tubing.  Apparently the root system is more of an anchor than a part used for nutrient uptake by the plant.  My drill is to feed using Dyna-Gro Foliage Pro, 9-3-6 in the cup letting it overflow into the pot with a two gallon bucket.

BTW, I cut down to a 2" stub a mother plant that had fruited leaving the pup alone.  It's growing pretty fast.  I mean, why disturb it and the awesome established root system if you don't have to?

Good point Mark. Just be sure to avoid putting even slow release pelleted fertilizer in the central crown as I've burnt back a few plants already. The foliar fertilizers work great. I've stopped using the Dyna Grow now that I've got the 12 month Nutricote but I should really start back up again, I've just been so busy with the kids.

I wish I started growing Pineapples sooner, they are so much fun and a great conversation piece for all my neighbors.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: White Jade Pineapple
« on: September 13, 2017, 08:21:01 AM »
Thanks for the heads up Chris. I will consider using a knife to remove the clones to avoid injuries that may lead to fruit fly infestations. This pineapple is pretty good size for only being half grown. I'll keep everyone updated.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Edward mango: mono or poly embryonic seed?
« on: September 12, 2017, 05:57:44 PM »
That does look like a polyembryonic seed. Do you have a picture of the fruit the seed came from? Did it look like the picture Frank posted?


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: White Jade Pineapple
« on: September 12, 2017, 01:52:27 PM »
Hey Mark, thanks for the reading. I'm a Bio major so most of that was pretty basic info but still good info. The reason why I think the clones could be a potential sink is because of my observations growing the White Jade and other Pineapple plants when they are simply growing vegetatively.

My young pineapple plants grow slowly even without a fruit. That leads me to believe that they are not getting much photosynthetic energy, especially when they are small. The clones do not have their own roots so there is no energy expenditure on growing out roots but this also means that the clones must be getting water and some nutrients from the parent plant. Some water and nutrients will probably also be absorbed from in between the leaves.

I will take Brix readings from this first fruit with all clones growing as well as from my future fruit with all clones removed but of course there are much too many un controlled variables to consider this a good experiment 😁


I agree. First fruits from a tree and also fruits from weak tree can be very poor quality. Fertilization can also make a huge impact on the quality of fruit.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Edward mango: mono or poly embryonic seed?
« on: September 11, 2017, 07:14:17 PM »
Edward should have Mono seeds, I planted several Edward mango seeds from Eunice Messners tree.

How did you conclude the seeds were polyembryonic? Sometimes mono seeds can have multiple Sprouts but from the same origin. Polyembryonic seedlings will originate from different segments of the Poly seeds although they can also have multiple Sprouts from the same origin.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: White Jade Pineapple
« on: September 11, 2017, 02:32:12 PM »
I hear you Mark, I'm going to remove suckers from some of them just to see how they grow. It would appear some of the photosynthates would go into the growth of the vegetative top but if there is extra, perhaps it would go into the fruit? Not really sure but it will be interesting to see what happens.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: White Jade Pineapple
« on: September 10, 2017, 08:55:39 PM »
I'll find out with this one. This things got clones coming out of everywhere! After this, I will have all the clones I need and I'll be removing all daughters from my next flowering White Jade to see if there is a difference. For all I know, the extra vegetative growths may give energy and nutrients to the fruit although I doubt it because I read on the pineapple book you sent me that some growers remove the clones. They must remove it for a good reason.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango sport
« on: September 10, 2017, 08:50:42 PM »
Yes, since the original bud wood is from the polyembryonic Lemon Zest, the resulting seedling should be polyembryonic with the caveat that polyembryonic seeds sometimes has a single seedling coming up.

Sequencing is getting cheaper every year and there are small sequencing machines that are very small and portable such as Illuminas products. Sequencing is the easy and cheaper part of the equation. It's the DNA extraction that is more laborious and expensive. For DNA extraction and sequencing, efficiency of scale is the name of the game.

To sequence one sample can cost several hundred dollars but if you run thousands of samples, the cost can be as low as $10 a sample or less.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: White Jade Pineapple
« on: September 10, 2017, 08:16:59 AM »
Thanks Chris,

I've noticed the same regarding the accelerated growth rate with appropriate fertilizer applications. I have so many slips, suckers and rations on this plant, I hope it doesn't pull too much energy away from the fruit. I can't wait to taste the White Jade when it is ripe.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: El Bumpo, African Pride, or Seedless Guava?
« on: September 10, 2017, 08:10:53 AM »
If you already have one of each, plant an Orton or Pierce.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango sport
« on: September 10, 2017, 01:17:56 AM »
I'm working at a different biotech company now so I don't have access to the DNA extraction kits nor sequencing equipment anymore. Even if the sample was sequenced, the majority of the genes would be identical because it came from the original Lemon Zest.


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