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Author Topic: Cherimoya or White Sapote?  (Read 2345 times)

darkcoolboo

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Cherimoya or White Sapote?
« on: April 07, 2016, 01:18:31 AM »
I've only got a few planting spaces left in the plan for my backyard (with mango and lychee taking up the majority), and I've come down to this final decision. It's come down to this since they are both custard-y fruits. White sapote does better in my climate, but flavor reigns supreme. For all those SoCal fruit growers if you have to choose, is a El Bumpo cherimoya better than an improved white sapote variety, like Rainbow?

Stan

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Re: Cherimoya or White Sapote?
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2016, 02:27:04 AM »
I love my Suebelle,BUT, the fruit are more then you can eat at times. Biggest drawback? Its so perishable, and you cant give away whats not right off the tree.
On the other hand? Sapote is forever. No amount of cold will kill it in California,it needs little water as time goes by,it looks GREAT..dark green,what pests it has don't seem to slow the tree down. Monarch caterpillars prefer Sapote leaves. I had a couple last year flit around after molting I guess. I hadn't seen Monarchs in years.
Suebelle also is VERY good at being pruned down to size. Just makes a thicker tropical looking canopy.

Cherimoya take much water. Frost tender. The fruits taste great and keep..you never have to let them rot.
How I see it.

EvilFruit

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Re: Cherimoya or White Sapote?
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2016, 05:42:13 AM »
Since you live in AZ, I'll go with white sapote Because it's Much easier to grow and should do well in your area.
Moh'd

johnb51

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Re: Cherimoya or White Sapote?
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2016, 08:50:37 AM »
Has anyone had luck growing cherimoya in Phoenix?  Isn't it a fussy tree when it comes to climate?  Not that many places have the right climate for it.  It definitely is the superior fruit.  White sapote, on the other hand, is very adaptable, and the fruit can be very tasty.  You don't have to baby it, and it will produce prodigiously.
John

Jsvand5

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Re: Cherimoya or White Sapote?
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2016, 09:09:57 AM »
If both will produce in your area it's not even a question. Cherimoya is the best fruit in the world IMO.

bsbullie

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Re: Cherimoya or White Sapote?
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2016, 09:49:16 AM »
If both will produce in your area it's not even a question. Cherimoya is the best fruit in the world IMO.

While a great mango and great lychee are really hard to beat, if the best of all 3 are on the table, the 'Moya will win a lot of votes....
- Rob

Jsvand5

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Re: Cherimoya or White Sapote?
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2016, 10:51:08 AM »
If both will produce in your area it's not even a question. Cherimoya is the best fruit in the world IMO.

While a great mango and great lychee are really hard to beat, if the best of all 3 are on the table, the 'Moya will win a lot of votes....

Yep. I love all 3 but if they were all sitting on a table I'd grab the cherimoya every time.

mangomanic12

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Re: Cherimoya or White Sapote?
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2016, 11:45:57 AM »
It's too hot here for cherimoya. Go with the sapote

ScottR

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Re: Cherimoya or White Sapote?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2016, 11:50:23 AM »
Best of both worlds, plant White Sapote first trim to be over story tree then plant Cherimoya under dappled shade of Sapote. ;)

Stan

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Re: Cherimoya or White Sapote?
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2016, 02:36:42 PM »
I thought you were in soucal. Arizona? Cherimoya might be difficult. On the other hand when I was a member of  Rare Fruit growers I saw one article of a guy who grew everything in Arizona- Banana's, guava's -trimmed to hedges he said did  much better with the heat in summer,the frost in winter than Guava's let grown. Mango's before I even knew they could be grown west.
With your heat- Atemoya's sound doable.

darkcoolboo

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Re: Cherimoya or White Sapote?
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2016, 06:24:40 PM »
With your heat- Atemoya's sound doable.


Does atemoya have less cold tolerance? With shade most things are possible. The only issues Cherimoya has are the difficulties of setting fruit with the dry climate due to poor pollination. However, many of us Arizonans have had fruit set.

Delvi83

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Re: Cherimoya or White Sapote?
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2016, 02:46:22 PM »
Hand pollination is common with Cherimoya.....my question is also, does Annona c. like the hot-arid summer of California?
If you like both fruits you should choose the plant that better thrives, so it will give you more fruits...

JF

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Re: Cherimoya or White Sapote?
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2016, 03:26:44 PM »
I've never hear of an annona thriving in the desert. Check with sheen O'leery and the vegan athletic they've had success with many tropical a in phoenix

fyliu

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Re: Cherimoya or White Sapote?
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2016, 07:03:00 PM »
Cherimoya is better in flavor, like everyone else said.

Those aren't monarch caterpillars I think. I get that bird poop swallowtail on my white sapote all the time and I pick off the ones I can find and leave the rest. No problem once the tree is big and has lots of leaves though.

Pick one and grow the other from seeds. White Zapotec takes longer to fruit from seed. Mine are over 5 years old and only the grafted branches are flowering.

barath

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Re: Cherimoya or White Sapote?
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2016, 08:43:13 PM »
I know this is not a popular viewpoint, but to me White Sapote is way better than Cherimoya in so many ways.  The flavor has interesting complexity (especially good cultivars), it can easily be eaten out of hand, you can eat a lot of them without worrying about health issues, the trees are super productive and tough, it can be everbearing, etc.

JF

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Re: Cherimoya or White Sapote?
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2016, 10:57:44 PM »
I know this is not a popular viewpoint, but to me White Sapote is way better than Cherimoya in so many ways.  The flavor has interesting complexity (especially good cultivars), it can easily be eaten out of hand, you can eat a lot of them without worrying about health issues, the trees are super productive and tough, it can be everbearing, etc.

I wouldn't consider W.sapote in the top 20 fruits but to each his own.It's sweeter than chico or a saijo/hachiya persimmon but at least they have a spicy component and you can make great smoothies or great sorbet(sapodillo) out of them. Some w.sapote are bland, repugnantly sweet and bitter skin.

darkcoolboo

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Re: Cherimoya or White Sapote?
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2016, 12:26:46 AM »
Check with sheen O'leery and the vegan athletic they've had success with many tropical a in phoenix


Yes, Shamus has fruited both cherimoya and sugarapple here. Many of us Arizonans debate whether it is the heat is worse or the frost is, but I think the frost is worst because it is a quick death while the heat is a long death and can be remedied if shade cloth is given.

barath

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Re: Cherimoya or White Sapote?
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2016, 05:45:00 PM »
I know this is not a popular viewpoint, but to me White Sapote is way better than Cherimoya in so many ways.  The flavor has interesting complexity (especially good cultivars), it can easily be eaten out of hand, you can eat a lot of them without worrying about health issues, the trees are super productive and tough, it can be everbearing, etc.

I wouldn't consider W.sapote in the top 20 fruits but to each his own.It's sweeter than chico or a saijo/hachiya persimmon but at least they have a spicy component and you can make great smoothies or great sorbet(sapodillo) out of them. Some w.sapote are bland, repugnantly sweet and bitter skin.

I'd say an average white sapote cultivar, like McDill, Pike, Nettie, etc. is not a top tier fruit, but the really good cultivars (Walton, Rainbow, Vernon and others) are among my favorite fruits.  As Tom Addison says, white sapote exhibits much greater variation even within a single cultivar than many other fruits, but the best fruits of the best white sapote cultivars are amazing in my book.

JF

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Re: Cherimoya or White Sapote?
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2016, 06:07:08 PM »
I know this is not a popular viewpoint, but to me White Sapote is way better than Cherimoya in so many ways.  The flavor has interesting complexity (especially good cultivars), it can easily be eaten out of hand, you can eat a lot of them without worrying about health issues, the trees are super productive and tough, it can be everbearing, etc.

I wouldn't consider W.sapote in the top 20 fruits but to each his own.It's sweeter than chico or a saijo/hachiya persimmon but at least they have a spicy component and you can make great smoothies or great sorbet(sapodillo) out of them. Some w.sapote are bland, repugnantly sweet and bitter skin.

I'd say an average white sapote cultivar, like McDill, Pike, Nettie, etc. is not a top tier fruit, but the really good cultivars (Walton, Rainbow, Vernon and others) are among my favorite fruits.  As Tom Addison says, white sapote exhibits much greater variation even within a single cultivar than many other fruits, but the best fruits of the best white sapote cultivars are amazing in my book.

The best w.sapote varieties I've had are fairhaven, Dorthia and Sunset you can eat these with the skin and they are not sickening sweet. I've had all of the above you mention except nettle and imo Vernon is the best of the bunch.

Mark Lee has one that I had last summer that was excellent....I believe the name was Skipper or Leroy that one ranks up there.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 06:17:01 PM by JF »

barath

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Re: Cherimoya or White Sapote?
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2016, 07:59:26 PM »
I know this is not a popular viewpoint, but to me White Sapote is way better than Cherimoya in so many ways.  The flavor has interesting complexity (especially good cultivars), it can easily be eaten out of hand, you can eat a lot of them without worrying about health issues, the trees are super productive and tough, it can be everbearing, etc.

I wouldn't consider W.sapote in the top 20 fruits but to each his own.It's sweeter than chico or a saijo/hachiya persimmon but at least they have a spicy component and you can make great smoothies or great sorbet(sapodillo) out of them. Some w.sapote are bland, repugnantly sweet and bitter skin.

I'd say an average white sapote cultivar, like McDill, Pike, Nettie, etc. is not a top tier fruit, but the really good cultivars (Walton, Rainbow, Vernon and others) are among my favorite fruits.  As Tom Addison says, white sapote exhibits much greater variation even within a single cultivar than many other fruits, but the best fruits of the best white sapote cultivars are amazing in my book.

The best w.sapote varieties I've had are fairhaven, Dorthia and Sunset you can eat these with the skin and they are not sickening sweet. I've had all of the above you mention except nettle and imo Vernon is the best of the bunch.

Mark Lee has one that I had last summer that was excellent....I believe the name was Skipper or Leroy that one ranks up there.

From what I've heard, the edibility of skin of white sapotes apparently has a lot to do with the salt content of your water and soil.  The more salt, the more bitter/inedible the skin.  We're lucky to have really good water here with very low salt, so the skin is edible on virtually all varieties.

Mark passed along some scions of Leroy -- looking forward to it fruiting.

Stan

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Re: Cherimoya or White Sapote?
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2016, 08:07:54 PM »
NO such thing as "sickeningly sweet" to me ;D  Although not sweet enough is waaaay too common.
I think we in Haytown have just about the best water around. From Yosemite's Hetch Hechy that San Francisco shares with us. Hayward has great water, old orchard soils, nice climate and after that I don't feel like bragging.
My Suebelle seems fine to me. I have had people do the love it of hate it affect on me. Most of course never tasted anything like it. SO my Filipino and even Mexican friends have grown to love them. I had tenants who always left clean seeds around to let me know they liked them. Always plenty- no problem.

raimeiken

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Re: Cherimoya or White Sapote?
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2016, 09:13:15 PM »
Check with sheen O'leery and the vegan athletic they've had success with many tropical a in phoenix


Yes, Shamus has fruited both cherimoya and sugarapple here. Many of us Arizonans debate whether it is the heat is worse or the frost is, but I think the frost is worst because it is a quick death while the heat is a long death and can be remedied if shade cloth is given.

Uhh what? from what I've seen, he doesn't have any mature cherimoya or sugarapple growing in ground here. Unless you're talking about the trees he's gotten from Florida that have fruit on them already or about to fruit.

johnb51

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Re: Cherimoya or White Sapote?
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2016, 09:34:53 PM »
Ditto with me.  No such thing as "sickeningly sweet" when it comes to fruit!  But I do appreciate a balance of sugar and acid.
John

ScottR

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Re: Cherimoya or White Sapote?
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2016, 10:00:57 PM »
I know this is not a popular viewpoint, but to me White Sapote is way better than Cherimoya in so many ways.  The flavor has interesting complexity (especially good cultivars), it can easily be eaten out of hand, you can eat a lot of them without worrying about health issues, the trees are super productive and tough, it can be everbearing, etc.

I wouldn't consider W.sapote in the top 20 fruits but to each his own.It's sweeter than chico or a saijo/hachiya persimmon but at least they have a spicy component and you can make great smoothies or great sorbet(sapodillo) out of them. Some w.sapote are bland, repugnantly sweet and bitter skin.

I'd say an average white sapote cultivar, like McDill, Pike, Nettie, etc. is not a top tier fruit, but the really good cultivars (Walton, Rainbow, Vernon and others) are among my favorite fruits.  As Tom Addison says, white sapote exhibits much greater variation even within a single cultivar than many other fruits, but the best fruits of the best white sapote cultivars are amazing in my book.

The best w.sapote varieties I've had are fairhaven, Dorthia and Sunset you can eat these with the skin and they are not sickening sweet. I've had all of the above you mention except nettle and imo Vernon is the best of the bunch.

Mark Lee has one that I had last summer that was excellent....I believe the name was Skipper or Leroy that one ranks up there.

From what I've heard, the edibility of skin of white sapotes apparently has a lot to do with the salt content of your water and soil.  The more salt, the more bitter/inedible the skin.  We're lucky to have really good water here with very low salt, so the skin is edible on virtually all varieties.

Mark passed along some scions of Leroy -- looking forward to it fruiting.
In my opinion I would never put W. Sapote or Cherimoya above each other there both amazing fruit and I like the one that's ripe on my table that day ;) As Frank, says to each his own and that's where my home grow fruit stands! ;) 8) 8)

 

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