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Author Topic: Registration of New Variety of Mango  (Read 1517 times)

Nayelie321

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Registration of New Variety of Mango
« on: August 26, 2018, 11:32:38 PM »
does anyone know if there is an actual registration method for a new mango variety. Letís say I stumble onto a seedling tree that produces mangoes I have not seen before; is there a method of verification and possible registration of this possibly new variety? Does anyone know?

wslau

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Re: Registration of New Variety of Mango
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2018, 11:49:11 PM »
Trademark registration and patents are made through the US Patent and Trademark Office.
There are a few mango patents out there from Zill, Tim Thompson, and others.
The cost is generally high and not worth it from a standpoint of profitability.
From what I have observed, there is generally very little policing/enforcement of the patent for plant material and its propagation (by individuals) once it is distributed for sale.

Proving you have a new variety may be a little more difficult.  Perhaps forum member DuncanYoung can give you more insight on patents, as I recall reading that a member of his family has a patent on a mango (Duncan and Young varieties).
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 08:24:13 PM by wslau »
Warren

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Re: Registration of New Variety of Mango
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2018, 12:00:17 AM »
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 12:10:22 AM by wslau »
Warren

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Re: Registration of New Variety of Mango
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2018, 12:16:41 AM »
Patent something that isnt yours and with no documented history???  Even if it were yours, not worth the money.

You can always give a seedling that is not the poly clone of its parent a name but before being so quick to do so, a lot of observing should be done (observing mother tree over multiple years and propagating and observing fruit from that to ensure it holds true).  This takes years and a lot of time and effort.
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HIfarm

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Re: Registration of New Variety of Mango
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2018, 01:59:20 AM »
Registrations & patents are two very different things.  I am sure that the US Patent office is not registering fruit tree cultivars.  Registering a cultivar with the appropriate organization generally does not grant you any type of protection like a patent does.  It only registers the clonal name, the parents (if known), and the person who bred (or perhaps found?) the cultivar.  I am not sure if there is an actual registrar of mango cultivars.  Various organizations do it for various plants.  For example, the Royal Horticultural Society in the UK is the registrar for orchids as well as some other ornamental plants.

If you are interested in pursuing it, the RHS mentions the International Society for Horticultural Science here:
https://www.rhs.org.uk/plants/plantsmanship/plant-registration
that might be a good starting point to find out if there is a mango registrar somewhere.

John

Tropicdude

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Re: Registration of New Variety of Mango
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2018, 02:15:57 AM »
I have always wondered if people make money by patenting,  if someone breeds a variety that is mostly used by back yard growers,  how many trees of some new variety is really sold?  few hundred?   I guess if you have them distributed like Home Depot,  and you make 5 bucks , then selling thousands might be wel worth it, but that's a lot os "ifs".

Now commercial varieties is a different story,    here in the DR, some local dude, brought back Avocado scions from Brazil,  of the "Margarida" and got it patented,  under another name.  "Carla" ,  which is being planted commercially. 

Another Avocado variety,  "Maluma"  I believe charges 1 dollar per tree royalty.  but when you take into account that large plantations plant tens of thousands of trees.
it's might be profitable.

Something that might help with getting patent owners their money,   is the fact that import countries are starting to requires that farms in export countries have their trees certified,  in other words that , if I have Maluma trees,  that all my root stock came from a certified  supplier, and the grafting also from certified source.  this way products are more uniform.  and have better quality control.    but this means that every grafted tree that is certified is counted.   so there is the possibility of profit.   but again as others have mentioned,   you need to have a winner,  something better than what already is out there.  and it takes a lot of money to promote.  or you will spend decades.    take a look at Kiett mango,  its only now in the last decade or so, becoming very popular commercial variety,   but how long has it been around?
William
" The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago.....The second best time, is now ! "

pineislander

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Re: Registration of New Variety of Mango
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2018, 07:16:16 AM »
Besides patenting one other way that breeders take advantage is by establishing growers "Clubs" in which the patented variety is only grown by specific growers who do so under strict quality control and are marketed cooperatively The idea is that when a high quality product is produced consistently it gets advantage in the marketplace by name recognition so that a firm consumer preference is established. In the US this has happened mostly with apples and to a lesser extent with table grapes. To some extent I  think the Aussies are doing the same with Achachairu.

Discussion
Quote
The Rise Of Apple Clubs And Trademark Varieties Of Fruit
How Intellectual Property In Orchards Is Transforming Autumn's Flavor
https://www.wiscontext.org/rise-apple-clubs-and-trademark-varieties-fruit




HIfarm

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Re: Registration of New Variety of Mango
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2018, 03:52:42 PM »
I find myself really scratching my head over this string.  The original poster (N321), never mentioned patenting.  Maybe I misunderstood, but I did not get the impression he wanted to get rich off of this hypothetical mango, just wondered if there was a mechanism where it could be named at some central clearing house to avoid confusion with other mangoes.  Any sexually produced seed-grown plant is an individual clone and could conceivably be named and propagated (not saying this is always a good idea).  The notable thing about registration is that it ties a name to a seedling from a specific grower or hybridizer.  Otherwise, several people can give very different clones the same name and cause considerable confusion among growers.  A central registrar avoids this and sometimes doesn't even allow names that sound very similar to existing cultivars.

bsbullie

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Re: Registration of New Variety of Mango
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2018, 04:42:08 PM »
Going back to the original post, this whole thread is silly.  "Registering" a mango that someone "stumbled upon"? How do they know its an unnamed seedling and whatvreally gives them the right tobtaje any action for naming a tree that belings to someone else.

People have been responding to what could be done...I question how many of the named variesties qe know and love are officially "registered"...
- Rob

Nayelie321

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Re: Registration of New Variety of Mango
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2018, 06:56:20 PM »
Going back to the original post, this whole thread is silly.  "Registering" a mango that someone "stumbled upon"? How do they know its an unnamed seedling and whatvreally gives them the right tobtaje any action for naming a tree that belings to someone else.

People have been responding to what could be done...I question how many of the named variesties qe know and love are officially "registered"...

Actually I was stating it hypothetically and the tree is an old 75yr old tree that is in my family estate. It was planted by my great grandfather from a seed. The whole lost is to know if I can get the mango tested to know if itís a new variety and if itís possible to just give it a name. It doesnít look like other varieties Iíve seen. I donít currently have a picture but will post some next season of the fruit. I was trying to see if itís not a variety people know of already so I could share scion wood and officially name it after my great grandfather.

Cookie Monster

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Re: Registration of New Variety of Mango
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2018, 07:54:16 PM »
If the seed is polyembryonic, then the mango tree might be a clone of another, already named tree. For example, if I plant the seed from a nam doc mai, most often than not, I'll get another nam doc mai identical to the parent tree.

That said, it's not a problem to re-name a tree that has already been named. Both Pine Island Nursery and Zill's HPP do that.

If it's truly a unique cultivar and the tree has characteristics that are highly desirable, then there is some probability that the tree becomes a widely known and recognized cultivar.

Cool story about the 75 year old tree. Is this in SoCal?

Going back to the original post, this whole thread is silly.  "Registering" a mango that someone "stumbled upon"? How do they know its an unnamed seedling and whatvreally gives them the right tobtaje any action for naming a tree that belings to someone else.

People have been responding to what could be done...I question how many of the named variesties qe know and love are officially "registered"...

Actually I was stating it hypothetically and the tree is an old 75yr old tree that is in my family estate. It was planted by my great grandfather from a seed. The whole lost is to know if I can get the mango tested to know if itís a new variety and if itís possible to just give it a name. It doesnít look like other varieties Iíve seen. I donít currently have a picture but will post some next season of the fruit. I was trying to see if itís not a variety people know of already so I could share scion wood and officially name it after my great grandfather.
Jeff  :-)

bsbullie

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Re: Registration of New Variety of Mango
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2018, 09:38:21 PM »
Renaming is not a good thing, for many reasons.

With PIN, if you are talking about the Young-Tebow debacle, there is no excuse for that.  Actually,  it was an insult to a known Florida breeder/family.  They have also supposedly done the same with some dragon fruit.

With ZHPP,  if you sre talking about Lemon Meringue-PPK naming, there was a reason for it at the time (and was not for marketing or sales).  They also dont try and cover up the PPK name at this point.
- Rob

clannewton

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Re: Registration of New Variety of Mango
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2018, 08:46:09 AM »
What is the status of the Hatcher Mango in reference to registering or patent question?

roblack

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Re: Registration of New Variety of Mango
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2018, 10:51:39 AM »
People do the same thing in the live coral trade and hobby. Named corals are sometimes renamed, usually for marketing purposes, and large price tags are placed on corals that are identical (in looks and genetics) to already available cheaper corals. Sometimes people probably just don't know better, and think they have a unique specimen. Some importers, vendors, and collectors have their own le (limited edition) named coral lines. It's kind of crazy, and similar in ways to the mango (and other fruit/vegetable, etc.) trade.   

It would be nice to have a mango named after one's self, or a loved one, or just to name one. But finding/developing one worthy of naming and propagating usually takes a long time, observation, and a lot of work.   

BrianL

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Re: Registration of New Variety of Mango
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2018, 01:41:18 PM »
Well in theory there is a way to tell, but it is dependent on a few things.

You'd need a method to look at the genetics at a level able to tell individuals apart (usually) like microsats.  Then you'd have to have enough sequenced.

You'd then need a database of other likely cultivars.  This could get expensive and time consuming if you have to make this from scratch, but if you limit it to things it would likely be 75 years ago it might be less intensive.

In theory if you do enough markers you get a unique patterns and could tell an individual apart.  In an ideal situation there'd be someone who researches mangos with a database willing to look at your sample.  It might be worth searching if someone works on the genetics of mangos.   

Guanabanus

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Re: Registration of New Variety of Mango
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2018, 12:59:42 PM »

I have been working in the mango and tropical fruit trade since the late 1970's, and I have never heard of an official registry of mango varieties;  I also have never heard of any private or cooperative registry of mangos. 

Although, early on, there were some very rudimentary genetic tests of a few mango varieties, using a few dozen or a couple hundred genetic variants tested for ("Markers", colloquially), those are nowhere near adequate to guarantee recognition of distinctness or of sameness.  Testing a million markers would usually differentiate varieties, but would still sometimes not detect an existing difference among the billions of chromosomal positions testable.

One is left with searching the experiment station and botanical garden accession lists of all the sub-tropical and tropical countries of the world, and the lists of private collectors.  There is no system whatsoever to determine redundancy of names, other than visual or olfactory or taste identification by persons, using their abilities of the moment.



Har

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Re: Registration of New Variety of Mango
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2018, 01:56:28 PM »
The placement of the commercial nickname "Lemon Meringue" onto the 'Po Pyu Kalay' mango variety, from Myanmar/Burma, actually WAS to increase sales, and it did so and does so considerably.

By some persons this attempted re-naming has been viewed as gauche or fresh, and a long-running argument / quasi-feud hasn't ended yet.

I was there when the indirect suggestion to re-name it occurred.  The late Mr. Bob Murray, fruit tree broker and owner of the original Tree House Nursery on Pine Island near Fort Myers, and beloved fruit club personage and speaker, emphatically declared, "I am not going to try to sell a name with 'P.U.!' in it!" [colloquial reference to bad smell]
Har

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Re: Registration of New Variety of Mango
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2018, 02:07:17 PM »
I was also there, in the late 1970's/early 1980's, listening carefully, when Laurence H. Zill, and his sons, had considerable to say--- good points and ridicule--- against patenting mango varieties.

I still agree with all of that, and I react to more recent activities with a "Why on Earth...?"
Har

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Re: Registration of New Variety of Mango
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2018, 02:08:04 PM »
HAHA!

The placement of the commercial nickname "Lemon Meringue" onto the 'Po Pyu Kalay' mango variety, from Myanmar/Burma, actually WAS to increase sales, and it did so and does so considerably.

By some persons this attempted re-naming has been viewed as gauche or fresh, and a long-running argument / quasi-feud hasn't ended yet.

I was there when the indirect suggestion to re-name it occurred.  The late Mr. Bob Murray, fruit tree broker and owner of the original Tree House Nursery on Pine Island near Fort Myers, and beloved fruit club personage and speaker, emphatically declared, "I am not going to try to sell a name with 'P.U.!' in it!" [colloquial reference to bad smell]
Jeff  :-)

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Re: Registration of New Variety of Mango
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2018, 08:23:32 PM »
By ďregisteringĒ I think he really meant trademarking. Trademarking is actually very easy and only costs something like $200. I went thru it a few years back. You only have to prove the use is unique and that youíre actually actively using it in commerce.

To the OP, I hope it is unique and you do get to name it so you can preserve your GGGFís legacy. That would be awesome.
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