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Author Topic: Pomelo versus Grapefruit  (Read 4346 times)

Luisport

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Pomelo versus Grapefruit
« on: April 22, 2014, 09:45:27 AM »
Hi everyone! Here in Portugal, tree sellers say that pomelo and grapefruit are the same thing and that pomelo is the french name for grapefruit... i think it's not but like to know what experts can say. Thank's!  ;D

Millet

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Re: Pomelo versus Grapefruit
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2014, 10:03:55 AM »
That because of the French name for grapefruit being almost the same as the English name for Citrus Maxima which in English is  Pummelo. .  Instead of using pumelo, when talking to Portugal tree seller try using the actual scientific name Citrus Maxima. - Millet

Luisport

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Re: Pomelo versus Grapefruit
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2014, 10:13:10 AM »
That because of the French name for grapefruit being almost the same as the English name for Citrus Maxima which in English is  Pummelo. .  Instead of using pumelo, when talking to Portugal tree seller try using the actual scientific name Citrus Maxima. - Millet
Thank's! And the scientific name to grapefruit?  ;)

Millet

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Re: Pomelo versus Grapefruit
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2014, 10:47:24 AM »
Louisport, grapefruit's scientific name in English is Citrus Paradisi. - Millet

Luisport

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Re: Pomelo versus Grapefruit
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2014, 11:06:05 AM »
Louisport, grapefruit's scientific name in English is Citrus Paradisi. - Millet
Thank you very much and sorry for this basic questions!  :D

Mike T

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Re: Pomelo versus Grapefruit
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2014, 03:49:38 PM »
Pomelo, pom -apple, melo -melon is the parent of grapefruit.Pomelo are larger,sweeter,have thicker skin and underlying pith and can be divided into sections dry.Flesh can easily be removed without vesicles bursting. They are generally more highly valued in tropical areas. Grapefruit are easier to juice and handle cool climates better.

Steffen

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Re: Pomelo versus Grapefruit
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2014, 06:17:41 PM »
Well,
usually Citrus maxima trees new sprouts and main vein of the leaves are pubescent... Citrus paradisi not!

Most flowers of Citrus maxima are big and resemble as been made of wax the tip of the style is usually green, flowers of Citrus paradisi are in size of orange flowers, are fine and the tip of the style is usually yellow to light orange in color.

So, if you habe a tree, touch the leaves... let your finger move down the main vein of the leaf, feel... Citrus maxima will exhibit a touch like velvet, Citrus paradisi will not an exhibit a waxy, smooth surface of the main vein...
at enough light and heat, nothing will kill a citrus tree that soon!

Mike T

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Re: Pomelo versus Grapefruit
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2014, 06:27:11 PM »
What pomelo crossed with in the West Indies to get grapefruit is an interesting question.Could it be a lemon,lime,sour prange or sweet orange? I'd be betting on the sour orange.

Steffen

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Re: Pomelo versus Grapefruit
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2014, 03:00:33 PM »
Mike, here Mabberley can help.
He created a botanical naming system for Citrus, which isn't because of visual differences, he created it according to genetical differences.

Mabberley sorted Citrus because of it's genes. For many horticulturists the system is to difficult, because it creates to much confusion.
For example: Within the Citrus x aurantium group one will find the Sweet Oranges, as the Sour Oranges, but also the Grapefruit.
Mabberley found that the Pomelo - Citrus maxima - is a true species.

Citrus x aurantium is a natural hybrid of Citrus reticulata and Citrus maxima - thus Grapefruit is a natural hybrid of Mandarine with Pomelo.

Those genetical relationships were found by Hogson first published within Citrus Industry Vol. 1 - but the books still used the Tanaka systematics to classify Citrus botanically. It was also published by Albrigo and Davis in their book on Citrus.
In 1997 Mabberley published his analysis and his created botanical system of Citrus classification - and so we can find the parentages for the Grapefruit.

So I think, we won't get any closer als this information  :D
at enough light and heat, nothing will kill a citrus tree that soon!

Millet

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Re: Pomelo versus Grapefruit
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2014, 04:42:10 PM »
I've always read that the parents of the grapefruit are Pummelo and sweet orange. - Millet

Mike T

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Re: Pomelo versus Grapefruit
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2014, 05:18:52 PM »
I would be surprized if there is a level of genetic resolution carried out to pin the parentage of various citrus. If we assume the original species are citron,pomelo,mandarin and lime with kumquats and others not contributing much, it would be easier to assign genetic proportions of the originals.I wonder if mandarins and sweet oranges were commonly around the area where grapefruit emerged from? Mutations and genetic drift might blur the lines on the family tree.

Millet

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Re: Pomelo versus Grapefruit
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2014, 10:07:51 PM »
Mike, we don't have to assume that the original species were citron, pummelo, and mandarin.  The genetic work has already been accomplished, and indeed the original citrus varieties were verified as being only the citron, pummelo, and mandarin.  As far as the pummelo and sweet orange being the parents of the grapefruit, I can't say for 101% sure that the genetic work has been done to verify that, but I believe it also has been.  Anyway, you will find that most all internet web sites state that pummelo and sweet orange are indeed the parents.  - Millet

Mike T

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Re: Pomelo versus Grapefruit
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2014, 10:42:02 PM »
Millet thanks for the info.

I know mexican limes that orginated in the Malaysia and Thailand area are their own species and would have thought they contributed to lemon development along with citron.The texture of grapefruit is certainly is closer to orange and sweetness of offspring perhaps is not the best guide to parentage.

I have looked at some conflicting genetic work on citrus and I know the classic species concepts are out the window with all the splitting.

bussone

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Re: Pomelo versus Grapefruit
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2014, 04:33:49 PM »
Mike, we don't have to assume that the original species were citron, pummelo, and mandarin.  The genetic work has already been accomplished, and indeed the original citrus varieties were verified as being only the citron, pummelo, and mandarin.  As far as the pummelo and sweet orange being the parents of the grapefruit, I can't say for 101% sure that the genetic work has been done to verify that, but I believe it also has been.  Anyway, you will find that most all internet web sites state that pummelo and sweet orange are indeed the parents.  - Millet

I thought hystrix was considered to be true species, as well the cousins in Fortunella, Poncirus, and Microcitrus if you lump them into Citrus too.

fruitlovers

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Re: Pomelo versus Grapefruit
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2014, 05:09:38 PM »
Hi everyone! Here in Portugal, tree sellers say that pomelo and grapefruit are the same thing and that pomelo is the french name for grapefruit... i think it's not but like to know what experts can say. Thank's!  ;D

In many spanish speaking places pomelo is the name for grapefruit. But we are talking about pummelo, which is a different species than grapefruit. Grapefruit is a much smaller fruit, thinner rind. Pummelo can be 2 to 4 x bigger than pummelo and has very thick rind. Also pummelo can take more tropical climate than grapefruit. If you saw and tasted the 2 fruits you wouldn't confuse them again.
Oscar

Mike T

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Re: Pomelo versus Grapefruit
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2014, 05:24:17 PM »
Pomelo is the most often used spelling here, but pumelo,pummelo and a couple of other variants are used also.While they are considered different species pomelo is the mother of grapefruit which is a hybrid.They are probably grown in equal abundance in my district with grapefruit prefered for juice,breakfast halves and spandex/latex wearing crew like cyclists and weight watchers.Pomelo is prefered as a snack food prepared and peeled beforehand and also by the asian community.
On the subject of species bussome those 3 other genera really don't fly in taxonomic terms and would barely stand alone as unique species by any measure.Florally,genetically and along the inability to produce fertile hybrid lines they should not have been elevated to genera.Hystrix is a seperate species. What I was referring to mainly that Millet addressed is the 'root' species in those Chinese gardens 1000's of years ago,kept together that produced oranges,lemons,modern mandarins etc that are the major familiar citrus today.

fruitlovers

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Re: Pomelo versus Grapefruit
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2014, 06:11:35 PM »
It's good to refer to this fruit as pummelo due to common name confusion with pomelo, which means grapefruit in many countries.
From Morton:
This (pummelo) the largest citrus fruit, is known in the western world mainly as the principal ancestor of the grapefruit. As a luscious food, it is famous in its own right in its homeland, the Far East.
Botanically it (pummelo) is identified as Citrus maxima Merr., (C. grandis Osbeck; C. decumana L.). The common name is derived from the Dutch pompelmoes, which is rendered pompelmus or pampelmus in German, pamplemousse in French. An alternate vernacular name, shaddock, now little used, was acquired on its entry into the Western Hemisphere as related below. The current Malayan names are limau abong, limau betawi, limau bali, limau besar, limau bol, limau jambua, Bali lemon, and pomelo.
Oscar

Axier

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Re: Pomelo versus Grapefruit
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2014, 07:23:57 AM »
Why is this a sticky topic?
Despite it is interesting, I don't understand what does special this topic .

Millet

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Re: Pomelo versus Grapefruit
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2014, 09:46:46 AM »
Axier, I agree with you.  We will have to remove the sticky. - Millet

Mike T

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Re: Pomelo versus Grapefruit
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2014, 08:34:29 PM »



A seeded pink pomelo came into my possession today.It is very sweet and chunks are easily pulled from segments dry and seeds almost fall out.

 

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