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Author Topic: Mystery Citrus  (Read 6335 times)

jcaldeira

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Mystery Citrus
« on: May 19, 2014, 10:38:07 PM »
Today I bought two citrus I have never seen before at the local market.  They are the size of a large grapefruit, with a skin resembling Rough Lemon. While flesh inside.   Any idea what it might be?   Here's a photo:




The only Pomelo I've seen here has a very thick rind.

It taste similar to an old-style sour grapefruit.  Tasty with enough honey drizzled on it.  The most remarkable thing about this fruit is the ease in which the flesh separates from the segment walls.  The flesh peels right off - I wish most grapefruit would do that!



Any idea what I might have here?
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Mike T

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2014, 11:26:54 PM »
I think the sistery mistress is just a large lemon of undefined variety. I see quite a diversity of bush and rough skinned lemons that have grown from discarded seeds from decades ago in bush areas.Some of them are brought into cultivation and look remarkably like the pictured one.

bsbullie

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2014, 11:29:02 PM »
Looks similar to a Ponderosa Lemon.
- Rob

jcaldeira

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2014, 11:33:55 PM »
I think the sistery mistress is just a large lemon of undefined variety. I see quite a diversity of bush and rough skinned lemons that have grown from discarded seeds from decades ago in bush areas.Some of them are brought into cultivation and look remarkably like the pictured one.

The taste was definitely not lemon. It was very much more like grapefruit.  The woman selling them had a pile all similar-sized large fruit.  It may be a hybrid with a rough lemon, but it definitely resembles a grapefruit/pomelo type of fruit except for the skin texture.
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jcaldeira

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2014, 12:37:30 AM »
Looks similar to a Ponderosa Lemon.

It sure does.  And mine is quite seedy, consistent with the descriptions of Ponderosa Lemon on the internet.  However, the taste is unlike any other lemon I've known. 
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adriano2

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2014, 02:09:18 AM »
at first it looks like citron, which probably is not, if it tastes like grapefruit.

Radoslav

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2014, 07:32:26 AM »
If there is a ginger like overtone in taste,  it could be citrus Citrus pennivesiculata aka citrus Moi.
Also some fruits of Shishi yuzu, citrus pseudogulgul look like that fruit.

bsbullie

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2014, 01:58:45 PM »
If there is a ginger like overtone in taste,  it could be citrus Citrus pennivesiculata aka citrus Moi.
Also some fruits of Shishi yuzu, citrus pseudogulgul look like that fruit.

Yuzu is not usually size of a grapefruit.  It is also a little more round in shape and seeds are usually larger than what is shown in his picture with less flesh to seed ration than is shown in the picture.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 03:51:36 PM by Millet »
- Rob

Radoslav

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2014, 02:46:31 AM »
If there is a ginger like overtone in taste,  it could be citrus Citrus pennivesiculata aka citrus Moi.
Also some fruits of Shishi yuzu, citrus pseudogulgul look like that fruit.

Yuzu is not usually size of a grapefruit.  It is also a little more round in shape and seeds are usually larger than what is shown in his picture with less flesh to seed ration than is shown in the picture.

I wrote about Shishi yuzu aka lion yuzu, or Oni yuzu aka Devil yuzu, which has nothing to do with common yuzu.

Mike T

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2014, 06:51:29 AM »
Some bush lemons are sweet, lemonades are sweet and I have seen a few funky looking  hybrids. It might be hard to figure out if it is not a known variety.

jcaldeira

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2014, 02:12:00 AM »
Thanks, all, for your thinking on this mystery.  I'm inclined to think that citron has some influence in the heritage of my fruit, as adriano2 suggests, due to the vertical striping that is apparent on the skin.  Radoslav presents a convincing suggestion with Citrus pennivesiculata.

I don't know what a citron tastes like.   For now I'll label my soon-to-be seedlings and maybe grafts as 'Citron ?'.  It's definitely not a commercial-grade fruit.




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Radoslav

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2014, 02:52:58 AM »
In any case fruit looks nice, maybe next time when you meet the seller, you can ask him/her for some twig with leaf, it can be used as budwood and leafs and petioles can help with identification.
btw: citron (citrus medica) can be sour (most of cultivars), or sweet (like citrus medica Corsican - sweet mild taste resembling taste of peas)
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 02:56:03 AM by Radoslav »

starling1

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2014, 04:34:48 AM »


That would be an etrog. They are very large and taste like grapefruit. Some are elongated and rough, others are round and rough like yours.

It is used in Jewish ceremonies.


Mike T

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2014, 05:41:02 AM »
Don't citrons have thicker pith and skin, including etrog? I thought lemon taste and smell was mostly imparted from the citron ancestors in the lemon family tree.. 

bsbullie

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2014, 12:17:20 PM »
Don't citrons have thicker pith and skin, including etrog? I thought lemon taste and smell was mostly imparted from the citron ancestors in the lemon family tree..

I agree with Mike.  Etrog, or citron, usually have thicker skin and pith.  They also have more of a flame shape to them, not as stout as the picture above. 
- Rob

thao

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bsbullie

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2014, 01:28:21 PM »
Maybe Ugli fruit from Jamaica?
 https://www.google.com/search?q=size+of+ugli+fruit+to+grapefruit&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=9S1-U7jeCcmVqAaGhICwCw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=609

I don't think Ugli fruit has the seed content as shown in the picture above.  Plus skin and flesh color do not look like Ugli fruit.
- Rob

thao

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2014, 03:02:02 PM »
Ya, maybe not ugli, ugli does look seedless

starling1

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2014, 04:35:25 PM »
ugli doesn't taste like grapefruit and isn't much bigger than a schaub lemon, and isn't segmented like that.

jcaldeira

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2014, 04:58:14 PM »
Mystery - Part 2

I was at the market again today, and found another related citrus that I hadn't seen before.  In the photo below, the two and a half fruit in front are the new ones; the one in back one of my earlier mystery fruit.




These new fruit are the size of a large navel orange.  Compared to the earlier mystery fruit, the rough skin has more pronounced striping.  Thicker rind.  Also very seedy but, unlike the larger fruit, the center of this fruit is closed.  Taste is sour.  Any ideas on the name?  They are NOT rough lemon.

Because these fruits are sour and not 'commercial grade', and are grown in the interior ("the bush"), I'm assuming they've been in Fiji a long time.  Nobody here is collecting varieties of citrus as a novelty.  And they must not be selling very well in the market.  Last purchase I paid the equivalent of U.S. 55 cents for two big ones.  Yesterday I paid the same for 5 of the smaller, so the vendor is basically just trying to unload them.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 11:27:01 PM by jcaldeira »
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Mike T

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2014, 05:35:43 PM »
Sure looks like a rough skin lemon to me or a variation of it with a little more citron going on.

starling1

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2014, 08:53:47 PM »
They are etrog/ citron. No mystery. After seeing these I'm less inclined to think the first mystery are etrog. I'm going to go with Mike's suggestion that they are some kind of rough Lemon, these vary considerably.

pics for comparison:





« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 08:56:00 PM by starling1 »

jcaldeira

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2014, 09:42:09 PM »
Why would anyone grow an  etrog/citron, other than a fruit tree collector?  Certainly not for taste.  For some reason, they made their way to Fiji.
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starling1

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2014, 11:12:59 PM »
Why would anyone grow an  etrog/citron, other than a fruit tree collector?  Certainly not for taste.  For some reason, they made their way to Fiji.

who knows, some Jewish guy maybe who was especially devout and immigrated to Fiji. Things turn up in weird locations through all kinds of processes and forces.   I have an opuntia which was developed by luther Burbanks right here in my backyard in semi-rural Brisbane--the only one he developed for fruit quality. Nobody expects that.

s

Radoslav

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2014, 02:53:12 AM »
Why would anyone grow an  etrog/citron, other than a fruit tree collector?  Certainly not for taste.  For some reason, they made their way to Fiji.

Etrog is important commercial citrus, for 2 reasons,
first one is religious - there are prosperous farms for producing "kosher" etrogs in Italy, they produce it for Jewish communities around the world.
Second reason is the same for all commercial citrus medica cultivars like Etrog, Diamante, Corsican - it is candied peel.
Citron, thanks to its thick and aromatic peel is the main source for candied peel business.

fruitlovers

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2014, 05:29:22 AM »
Etrogs from the lost tribes in Fiji?  ;)
The first photo doesn't look like etrog because there is too much pulp and not enough pith. The second photo looks more like could be etrog. Kind of hard to say because i only have one type of etrog. Mine is very thick walled with almost no juice inside. But there are very many different types of etrogs. I'm not an etrog expert. I'd say consult an Israeli.
My guess would be it's a pummelo cross with something else, perhaps etrog or rough lemon.
Whatever it is it's an interesting looking fruit. Does it give off wonderful fragrance when brought indoors? That is a good sign of etrog. Pummelos have much larger seeds than in your photo.
Oscar

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2014, 06:32:47 AM »
Yes, the first fruit does not look like citrus medica.
John, it is time to try to make some candied peel from the second one.
This is my attempt with my citrus medica cv. Corsican fruits.




I also tried it with mango pieces.
And the result was great, I changed water during cooking 4 times and I added pieces of mango pulp, when I changed water twice (mango pulp is of course much softer than citron peel, so no need to cook it as long as citron) and the result was great - perfect additive for many cakes.

jcaldeira

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2014, 12:42:51 AM »
Candied citrus peel is tempting to make.

In response to Oscar, the large fruit is not particularly fragrant.  Definitely tastes like something related to Pomello or Grapefruit, rather than Lemon.

I took a couple of photos today to compare the two new (to me) varieties I found and the Rough ("Bush") Lemon (in center, below) which is common here.



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fruitlovers

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2014, 01:49:58 AM »
Rough lemon we have here looks different from yours. Ours is a lot more bumpy on the surface.
Oscar

Mike T

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2014, 03:05:27 AM »
They are often very rough here as well with quite thick pith and large in size. Occasional trees produce fruit with longitudinal ridges like some citrons. The lemon in the pic looks pretty routine and less bush than cultivated.

jcaldeira

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2014, 10:25:43 AM »
We have some more gnarly rough lemons here, too, but never with the longitudinal striations suggestive of citron.

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fruitlovers

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Re: Mystery Citrus
« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2014, 06:18:20 PM »
We have some more gnarly rough lemons here, too, but never with the longitudinal striations suggestive of citron.




Yes, that is the type of lemon we have here that we call rough lemon. BTW, etrogs have been around for thousands of years, so it's not surprising they would be in Fiji. Probably most ancient type of citrus. Might be ancestor of them all. They are in almost every country by now. Certainly they're here in gentile Hawaii!
Oscar

 

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