Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers



Author Topic: Winter 2014 damage  (Read 5936 times)

Pancrazio

  • Off Tropic
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
  • Florence, Italy, USDA 8
    • Growing fruits in Florence, and Pratovecchio, Italy
    • View Profile
    • FruttAma.it
Winter 2014 damage
« on: May 24, 2014, 10:16:25 PM »
I was wondering what kind of damage your outdoor citrus have had during the 2014 winter.
Since as far as I can hear this winter had been on of the worst in years in the USA, I imagine that a lot of plants have been tested.
What did you lose? What did unexpectedly survive? What kind of temperature did your plant experience?
It would be nice to have some kind of map of what happened to citrus grower in the USA on such harsh winter to use it as reference for future use.
Italian fruit forum

I want to buy/trade to get the following mango scions: Florigon/Rosa/Francis Hargrave. Avocado: Mexicola. Contact me in PM if interested.

Tom

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 344
    • USA, Alabama,Montgomery, zone 8
    • View Profile
Re: Winter 2014 damage
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2014, 11:37:57 PM »
I'm in zone 8. We had 60 hours in a row with below freezing temps and during that time a low of 11 1/2 * F. Then we had about two weeks of ok weather and then another spell of about 50 hours never above freezing but the lowest temp was 20*F. I used frost cloth and plastic woven tarps with old fashioned incandescent light bulbs for heat. I have a Meyer lemon and several Satsumas and kumquats. Non of them would have had a chance without protection.  The worst thing about our zone 8 winters is we can have 70 to 80 * F in the middle of winter and have a cold snap with freezing temp around 20 * more or less. That can be a killer without protection. I hope that helps. Tom

elsedgwick

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
    • Thomasville, GA (8b)/TLH, FL (9a Microclimate)
    • View Profile
Re: Winter 2014 damage
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2014, 07:15:33 AM »
Here in N. Florida/S. Georgia we had an absolute low of around 20, with two or three days where temperatures remained below freezing until around midday. 

Out in the country, we lost a Meyer lemon.  Although it was protected by frost cloth over a frame, it had suffered limb breakage prior to the freeze, which I believe can significantly decrease cold tolerance by stimulating the tree.  With similar protection, we had some trees defoliate (pummelos, a Lakeland limequat, a Duncan grapefruit, and, surprisingly, a Ponkan).  A neighbor lost an unprotected grapefruit on Swingle that had just been planted.  Unprotected satsumas did fine, and an unprotected Ponkan graft I had high-grafted just a few months prior came through unscathed.   

In town, the recorded temperatures were about the same, but it's hard to know exactly what temperatures were around my house, everything in ground survived.  There was some defoliation seen on a Shiranui/Dekopon (on Swingle) and a Rhode Red Valencia (Trifoliate).  A Flame Grapefruit and Ponkan (both Swingle) came through pretty well.  In an unheated and partially open house (three walls and roof), lemons (Sanbokan, Lisbon, Harvey, Meyer, Ponderosa), limes (Kaffir, Persian, Lakeland Limequat), and various other plants (several mandarins, a pummelo, etc...) did fine - one of the lemons lost some new growth it was pushing out prematurely, but that is about it.  Almost all have set fruit.  Again, it's hard to know exactly how cold it got, but a mango and some pineapples in the same house died.  Another mango (~2" trunk diameter) died back almost to the graft, but has since come back. 


All trees are 1-3 years old except one 20 year old grapefruit that was unprotected and defoliated but has since come back and several older satsumas, which were also unprotected and did fine. 

Tom

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 344
    • USA, Alabama,Montgomery, zone 8
    • View Profile
Re: Winter 2014 damage
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2014, 08:27:02 PM »
I have been to John Neighbors where he has three rows of high tunnels of citrus each about 250 feet long. They have not all died like I had heard but a few at one end in the middle tunnel did die when the wind tore a hole in the end of the tunnel. I believe one of the dead Satsumas was the Brown Select that won best of show several years ago at the South East Fruit Expo. All the living Satsumas and Meyer lemons were hurt badly but look like they will survive. There will be very few fruit for a year or two if we don't have a repeat of bad weather next year. All the new planted grapefruit died. Tom

Pancrazio

  • Off Tropic
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
  • Florence, Italy, USDA 8
    • Growing fruits in Florence, and Pratovecchio, Italy
    • View Profile
    • FruttAma.it
Re: Winter 2014 damage
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2014, 08:48:47 PM »
Thank you for your contributions.

Out in the country, we lost a Meyer lemon.  Although it was protected by frost cloth over a frame, it had suffered limb breakage prior to the freeze, which I believe can significantly decrease cold tolerance by stimulating the tree.  [cut]
 A Flame Grapefruit and Ponkan (both Swingle) came through pretty well. 

I'm pretty surprised about the lemon, my lemon isn't a Meyer, but it looks capable of surviving to 20F (but i must admit that I have it planted along a south wall of an heated building). It must be what you have said, the plant must have been somehow stressed (maybe not hardened enough?) because Meyer should survive to 20 F. I'm sorry for you. The other surprise from my side is the Ponkan, i did expect it to be one of the most tropical among the mandarins.
Italian fruit forum

I want to buy/trade to get the following mango scions: Florigon/Rosa/Francis Hargrave. Avocado: Mexicola. Contact me in PM if interested.

adriano2

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 98
    • Croatia
    • View Profile
Re: Winter 2014 damage
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2014, 02:24:39 AM »
Do you have your citrus planted in the ground in Florenz?

Pancrazio

  • Off Tropic
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
  • Florence, Italy, USDA 8
    • Growing fruits in Florence, and Pratovecchio, Italy
    • View Profile
    • FruttAma.it
Re: Winter 2014 damage
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2014, 08:50:40 AM »
A regular lemon, pretty old (I'm assuming between 20 and 30 years old) on a south facing wall of my house. I have seen with my eyes a sweet orange, own roots, seeded, 3,5 meters tall, near the center of the town. One of my neighbour has a navel orange planted in the garden since 3-4 years in a unsheltered location.  I have heard rumors (I find hard to believe them, but this is what i hard so I'm just reporting) of a pomelo growing in a private garden.
Italian fruit forum

I want to buy/trade to get the following mango scions: Florigon/Rosa/Francis Hargrave. Avocado: Mexicola. Contact me in PM if interested.

TriangleJohn

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 252
    • View Profile
Re: Winter 2014 damage
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2014, 01:40:59 PM »
I'm up in Raleigh NC (zone 7b) and I lost everything in the ground except Poncirus and Poncirus hybrids 'Citrange'. I had Changsha Tangerines and Ipaeda Lemons, but they were tiny new plants. This was their second winter. They were small enough to toss a five gallon bucket over on a really cold night. This past winter was pretty cold, with multiple days that didn't get above freezing and multiple nights in the single digits (my home thermometer only said 10, downtown Raleigh said 7-9). Along with the temps it was very wet which tends to rot dormant plants in the cold.

I have a large backyard hoophouse that I seal up as tight as possible and keep above freezing. Everything in it did fine and from now on I will focus my citrus collection to container sized plants and keep them sheltered.

Of course now it is summer and it has been very hot and super dry - so from one extreme to another.

Yorgos

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 142
    • USA, Houston, Texas USDA zone 9a
    • View Profile
Re: Winter 2014 damage
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2014, 05:41:14 PM »
Here in Houston we had many days below in mid to upper 20's.  I only covered my newly planted Ruby Red grapefruit, carambola and recent N-33 navel orange grafts on my meyer lemon.  All did fine except the carambola defoliated. My kumquats, blood oranges, satsumas, pomelo, avocado were not covered and all did fine.  Avocado had some lleaves singed.   
Near NRG Stadium, Houston Texas. USDA zone 9a

TriangleJohn

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 252
    • View Profile
Re: Winter 2014 damage
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2014, 01:14:14 PM »
I miss-spoke earlier. Both the Changsha and the Ipaeda have resprouted from the ground. They appear to be the correct leaf patterns instead of Poncirus trifoliata leaves so I guess they were seedlings.

Pancrazio

  • Off Tropic
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
  • Florence, Italy, USDA 8
    • Growing fruits in Florence, and Pratovecchio, Italy
    • View Profile
    • FruttAma.it
Re: Winter 2014 damage
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2014, 05:02:14 PM »
This is one of the good sides of growing seedling/cuttings/air layered plants. Once they get frozen to the ground, you can always hope for them to resprouted true to the plant you had. Of course, you may miss few degrees of cold tolerance but i have also heard that plants on own roots somehow do better than on a inadequate rootstock on cold tolerance.
Italian fruit forum

I want to buy/trade to get the following mango scions: Florigon/Rosa/Francis Hargrave. Avocado: Mexicola. Contact me in PM if interested.

Millet

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2806
    • Colorado
    • View Profile
Re: Winter 2014 damage
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2014, 10:51:00 PM »
Many growers string Christmas lights throughout their citrus trees, even the more cold hardy varieties.  On cold nights the lights are turned on supplying added heat for the trees protection.  Putting a cover over a Christmas lighted tree adds a good amount of protection. - Millet

Tom

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 344
    • USA, Alabama,Montgomery, zone 8
    • View Profile
Re: Winter 2014 damage
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2014, 09:45:35 PM »
I do this and it has worked great for me in central Alabama. It is getting harder to find the old fashion large incandescent Christmas lights that heat up. The newer LED Christmas lights will do nothing. They do not produce heat. Tom

Pancrazio

  • Off Tropic
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
  • Florence, Italy, USDA 8
    • Growing fruits in Florence, and Pratovecchio, Italy
    • View Profile
    • FruttAma.it
Re: Winter 2014 damage
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2014, 06:06:55 PM »
I'm assuming that some king of workaround can be found using the large infrared lamps that are usually used to heat newly hatched chicks. I was considering these when i planted my mango. But prices are high for those (at least here in Europe, and have water insulation issues) even if they can be more efficient overall in transforming electricity in radiant heat.
Anyway sooner or later some kind of alternative solution must be found, incandescent lamps won't be produced forever now that led are inexpensive.
Italian fruit forum

I want to buy/trade to get the following mango scions: Florigon/Rosa/Francis Hargrave. Avocado: Mexicola. Contact me in PM if interested.

Tom

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 344
    • USA, Alabama,Montgomery, zone 8
    • View Profile
Re: Winter 2014 damage
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2014, 10:35:38 PM »
I certainly agree with you. Tom

Blake Branch

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25
    • Manor, GA, USA USDA zone 8
    • View Profile
Re: Winter 2014 damage
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2014, 10:47:38 PM »
I live on the border of zone 8A and 8B near the Okefenokee swamp in southeast Georgia.  Our Temps were below freezing for three nights in a row, with a solid two day period of below freezing temperatures.  The lowest we got was around 15 F.  I have microsprinklers on each tree that put out 30 gallons per hour each.  The deflector on them is a 120 degree pattern that sprays on the trees from the northwest side of the trees.  I did not lose any trees, bit did get severe damage in the tops of the trees.  All of my trees are less than two years old, and the most cold sensitive are the Hamlin orange and the Ruby Red grapefruit trees.

Tom

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 344
    • USA, Alabama,Montgomery, zone 8
    • View Profile
Re: Winter 2014 damage
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2014, 06:28:40 PM »
There is a commercial orchard of Owari in southeast Alabama near Dothan. He uses maybe 144 inches of spaghetti tubing wrapped around the trunk to supply his micro misters. The long tubing has so much water passing through that it doesn't freeze and protects the trunk all the way up. I haven't heard how he came through last winter. His name is Dallas Hartzog(?) and he knows his stuff ! He is an excellent grower. Tom

Millet

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2806
    • Colorado
    • View Profile
Re: Winter 2014 damage
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2014, 08:32:49 PM »
Tom wasn't  Dallas Hartzog a speaker at last year's Citrus Expo in Alabama? - Millet

Tom

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 344
    • USA, Alabama,Montgomery, zone 8
    • View Profile
Re: Winter 2014 damage
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2014, 10:45:59 PM »
Yes he was.

Blake Branch

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25
    • Manor, GA, USA USDA zone 8
    • View Profile
Re: Winter 2014 damage
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2014, 11:54:59 PM »
I've heard about what Mr. Hartzog is doing.  It sounds impressive.  There's a guy, about 15 miles southwest of me, that planted 10 acres of Owari two winters ago.  This past winter he tried several different methods of freeze protection; 17 GPA microsprinklers, bed sheets with a single incandescent bulb near the graft, bed sheets alone, and no protection at all.  He didn't lose a single tree.  His coldest temperature was around 22.  He has planted pines on the north, west, and east sides; where I only have thinned out trees to the west of my place.  One of the nights my weather station showed sustained 7-12 mile an hour winds, with gusts up to 18, that kept shifting from the northwest to northeast throughout the night.  If I would have been running the same amount of water as he was, then I would have probably lost everything.  The next planting that I'm going to attempt will have planted windbreaks around those three sides, and the citrus trees will have a lower rate of water running on them. 

Citradia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 500
    • USA/NC/Old Fort/6B
    • View Profile
Re: Winter 2014 damage
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2014, 09:59:06 PM »
Tom. How did the Ichang lemon and citrangquat trees fare this past winter at the nature center there in Anniston AL? How did your Morton hold up; did you protect it?

Tom

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 344
    • USA, Alabama,Montgomery, zone 8
    • View Profile
Re: Winter 2014 damage
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2014, 03:31:24 PM »
Not me, this is Tom. I think you are getting me mixed up with the extension agent that was on the program last year. He did a great job but I've forgotten his name. Big guy with a crew cut.  He does a lot of work much further north than I am. I'm bald and 5' 9" in central Alabama. Sorry. But most of my stuff in Montgomery AL came through a tough winter ok. I say ok because nothing died or defoliated that was mine. I tried protecting  some things on public property and they did ok but got hit hard by the second cold spell. I couldn't get to them the second time and it wasn't as cold nor as long but they were hammered.

Even my stuff that didn't defoliate didn't havve a good bloom. I was set for a big year but I guess they were in shock and didn't flush right.

Tom

Citradia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 500
    • USA/NC/Old Fort/6B
    • View Profile
Re: Winter 2014 damage
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2014, 08:41:06 PM »
Sorry. I thought the extension agent was Tom also. Interesting to know that the stuff you didn't protect the second time took damage even in Montgomery. Thanks for the perspective.

Tom

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 344
    • USA, Alabama,Montgomery, zone 8
    • View Profile
Re: Winter 2014 damage
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2014, 12:34:20 PM »
I found my notes from the citrus expo 2013. The extension guy you are thinking of is Hayes Jackson. He has done lots of good work. I think you can find him at ACES.EDU/Calhoun/  ACES stands for Alabama Cooperative Extension Service, he is an agent in Calhoun County. I think Anniston is the largest city/town in that county. That is not his link but it is very close. Haynes is very good about putting things on the Internet.  I will try to find the link and post it. I remember asking him for his email address and he said it twice over the microphone but I never got it completely. Tom
« Last Edit: October 20, 2014, 12:58:05 PM by Tom »

Tom

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 344
    • USA, Alabama,Montgomery, zone 8
    • View Profile
Re: Winter 2014 damage
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2014, 12:50:42 PM »
I found what I think you need. Hayes A. Jackson, office 256-237-1621, cell 256-453-1707, email address as follows:  jacksha@aces.edu    That will get you to him personally. The other way to get all this info is : aces.edu/Calhoun/   That address will take you to the page for Calhoun county and Hayes is down maybe half way on the list with all his contact info. If I have broken any laws Millet please delete anything I should not have used. I think Hayes would be glad to answer any of your questions about his work. I wouldn't use his cell phone unless it's an emergency but it's listed so I included it. I think if you look around the Calhoun edu website you will find things Hayes has posted about his work. That's what he said at the expo. Tom
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 10:33:28 PM by Tom »

 

Copyright © Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers