Author Topic: Looking for Piper spp. plants (esp. P. Longum) & Vanilla (green & variegated)  (Read 9511 times)

MassSpectrum

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Have secured a couple P. Nigrum traders in this thread, so now interested in P. Longum. If you're only willing to sell any then shoot me your price(s), but I'm hoping might be able to trade. Also interested in other useful members of the Piper genus that I dont yet have...
Piper aduncum
Piper ornatum
Piper borbonense
Piper cubeba
Piper darienense
Piper kadsura
Piper lolot
Piper novae-hollandiae
Piper guineense
Piper retrofractum
Piper sarmentosum
Piper subpeltatum
etc

From the Piper genus I have Kava Kava (Central FLorida adapted), Rootbeer Plant and Piper betel (wont be able to ship this out again for a few weeks).

I have lots of various seeds/plants of tropical fruits (& more), rootcrops (gingers, cassava, malanga's/taro's, 30+ types of sweet potatoes, proper yams and so on), many super hot pepper types, several cultivars of dragon fruit (and other fruiting cacti), wide array of PGR's (good for rooting, grafting, sprouting, branching, flowering, vigor etc). Etc.

Interested in one, or maybe a box worth. Let me know how much you can supply, what interests you, and I can try and figure you out the best offer in return I can make you (I have a lot of stuff not yet in my site). I can match you box for box pretty much whatever you want is what I'm trying to say.

 Thanks.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 08:44:10 PM by MassSpectrum »

afriadoni

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If you're only willing to sell any then shoot me your price(s), but I'm hoping might be able to trade. Also interested in other useful members of the Piper genus that I dont yet have (Piper sarmentosum).

From the Piper genus I have Kava Kava (Central FLorida adapted), Rootbeer Plant and Piper betel (wont be able to ship this out again for a few weeks).

I have lots of various seeds/plants of tropical fruits (& more), rootcrops (gingers, cassava, malanga's/taro's, 30+ types of sweet potatoes, proper yams and so on), many super hot pepper types, several cultivars of dragon fruit (and other fruiting cacti), wide array of PGR's (good for rooting, grafting, sprouting, branching, flowering, vigor etc). Etc.

Interested in one, or maybe a box worth. Let me know how much you can supply, what interests you, and I can try and figure you out the best offer in return I can make you (I have a lot of stuff not yet in my site). I can match you box for box pretty much whatever you want is what I'm trying to say.

 Thanks.

Hi ..
I Can send many spices from here .. You can buy it or just trade it with figs cuttings ..
By the way I'm from Indonesia

Thanks and regards


Tropicaliste

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I grow Piper Nigrum and could make a trade for some plant, but I could probably root you two cuttings max.  I rooted a cutting for a friend here on the forum not too long ago, and it's finally taking off, so it may take some time.  That's depending on your state. Msg me if you're interested. :)

MassSpectrum

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Awesome. I'm in FLorida.

Piper's are great rooters but they each still odd in their own rights.

I can send you a rooting hormones & stimulants + vigor boosters kit, that I live by, if you do a lot of propagation this setup is choice in that its not merely state of the art in its components, but you get to mix it all up into a max-absorbable water solution. It costs about a few bucks to mix a 5 gallon bucket most the way full. I keep one on the patio where I do most of my work and can dunk entire double-handfuls of cuttings, entire bags of root crops or even rootballs during transplanting.


In any event I will still be open to more trades for piper nigrum for anyone else.


Dig!

From the sea

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i have black pepper im going to do some cuttings of this weekend. i am always willing to trade

Tropicaliste

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Well, It seems From the Sea can provide them as well.  I'm in Maryland, so you could probably get your Piper faster from From the Sea.  It's up to you if you're still interested in my offer, but my feelings won't be hurt if you change your mind.  I was hoping to trade for a kava kava.  I can't quite navigate your site, it seems some are for seeds, and some are for plants but I'm not sure which are available as cuttings, in a 1:1 trade. 

I appreciate the offer for hormones, and I will look into that more, but I usually use Schultz hormone powder ... your method seems easier though ... :)

MassSpectrum

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Not to worry, I'm looking to get several starts here so I can start trading and such with it sooner than later so I'm open to more trades on any of these items until I make it a point here to say that I'm not. I'll remove it from the thread title when.

Rooting hormone POWDERS well, are just counter-intuitive to what plants want, what they need. GELS are a step in the right direction, but still plants drink WATER. Can't live without it.

Then there's the issue of strength. One powder product I had was 0.01% (10PPM). This Clonex gel is 0.31% (310PPM). Now these ranges are suitable for say tomatoes, but for many things that are stubborn to root these ranges wont do much of anything. Most anything with hardwood / bark really needs 1000+ PPM. When working with pure grade chems it's necessary to dissolve them into liquid, and then dilute the liquid into the desired PPM rate. You dont ever treat plant bits with pure grade chems. This might seem like a hassle, but it enables one to dial in specific PPM rates for maximum results.

Next is the issue of potency. Powders hold their potency quite well, as my pure grade baggies can usually store for years like any drug / vitamin. Turned into water (liquid) form we're now in a whole new realm. Some PGR's, such as Kinetin (not used for rooting), only store in liquid form for maybe a week unless frozen. "Gels", such as this Clonex I have here, are more like a syrup (which is a liquid). Their actual shelf life, hmm good question. This bottle doesn't have a 'born on' date. I suspect shelf life is why stores like Home Depot only carry the lowest-of-forms powder product.

Last but not least, PRICEY hormone products only ever include but one or 2 rooting hormones (usually only IBA, sometimes NAA), and rooting hormones only. Sure rooting hormones signal plant bits to produce roots, but thats all they do. From all the things we do with plants, with intent, the plant bits we produce that are the most stressed are cuttings intended to be clones. This is why I started adding all of the vigor boosters I've brought into my inventory (Brassinolide, Atonik and newly Chitosan).

Other core plant biostimulants needed for plants in general are root zone beneficial microbes & symbiotic fungi. Now some use things like cinnamon in rooting hardwoods for the antimicrobial effect. This could be important in many cases, trying to maintain sterility, but unless one is using a sealed cloning chamber sterility seems to me to be as impossible as can be imagined. I know 97.383% of the time my cloning work is all done outside, usually stuffed into cocopeat, and stays outside. It's done in a big bucket and perhaps thousands of specimen of all different things get dunked in there each solution batch. So I opt to settle on the beneficial 'microbeasties' taking care of this issue. I also have some antibiotics, and once thought I could also market them for seed germination, but studies show lowered germination rates in the absence of probiotics so I like to think that adding them in deliberately would be the best choice for general use rooting solution applications.

Tropicaliste

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What you say makes sense.  I don't know that I understand the breadth of the science, but you seem to know your stuff.  What's the process for one of your kits? Can you mail the kit?

MassSpectrum

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You'll want to read thru the guides pages for each main substance and get an overall familiarity with them. From there its a matter picking the the dose ranges and adjusting the scoops per volume of intended water. Right up until the moment you make your first batch it might seem real complicated, but as soon as you've done it once its a no brainer after that. Most of them dissolve right into the water. The usual IBA+NAA set requires those two to be dissolved in alcohol first, but I have a water soluble form of IBA now that can dissolve into water alone enabling the all-water soluble kit. .

Oh of course they ship fine.

MassSpectrum

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Here's some papers on Piper propagation:

Quote
In trials with Piper nigrum cv. Panniyur-1, 1- and 2-node cuttings of runners were dipped in 1000, 2000, 3000 or 4000 p.p.m. IBA solutions. The cuttings were struck in polyethylene bags kept under shade and assessed for rooting, leaf and root number and shoot length after 3 months. The 2-node cuttings gave better results than the 1-node cuttings viz. 80% rooting with IBA at 1000 p.p.m., compared 40% in the control.
http://www.cabdirect.org/abstracts/19910303599.html;jsessionid=840033149DB0BA469281CA8EB2C8EF7D

More than one node per cutting important. IBA at 1000PPM worked best. That was the lowest dose however, so I'd guess dialing it down would yet find the optimum.

Quote
asexual propagation was assessed by cuttings in three substrates (river sand, soil, burnt rice husk) and three growth-stimulating with four different doses each (indole butyric acid (IBA), naphthalene acetic acid (NAA) and botanical extracts of aloe). Two months after preparation of cutting, the highest rooting (20 roots average) and shoot development (5 pairs of leaves) were obtained with NAA 300 and 600 mg L-1 application, with sand substrate. The massive propagation is more efficient by cuttings, due to the slow growth stage in seedlings. Propagation by cuttings was obtained in less time for good root development through the application of NAA, with sand substrate because this allows good drainage and maintaining a relative humidity above 80%, conditions that P. aduncum, remains in its natural growth medium. Propagation is suggested by cuttings to get the amount of material required.

So NAA 300-600PPM worked best, with sand of the 3 substrates.

Quote
The study indicated that the middlel/3rd portion of vine with at least two nodes quick-dipped at IBA 100 ppm and a growing media consisting of sand:soil:FYM:coconut husk at 1: 1: 1: 1 are the best so far as the survivability of black pepper cutting is concerned particularly at the new alluvial zone of West Bengal.
http://cropandweed.com/vol6issue1/pdf2005/10.pdf

Here they tested with sand / soil variants and worked a couple with cocopeat, but none in straight cocopeat (how I do about 90% of all types of cuttings). 100PPM IBA.

Quote
The shoots are cut into pieces with 2-3 nodes in each. Leaves, if any, are to be clipped off leaving a small portion of the petioles on the stem. Dipping the lower cut end (up to 2 cm) of the cuttings in 1000 ppm solution of 3-indole butyric acid (IBA) for 45 seconds will increase root formation and development. The dipping period of 45 seconds should be strictly adhered to, as any deviation from this may be injurious.

Plant the treated cuttings in nursery beds or preferably in polythene bags or baskets filled with potting mixture. The potting mixture is prepared by mixing two parts of fertile topsoil, one part of river sand and one part of well rotten cattle manure.Substituting granite powder (a waste material from stone quarries) for sand in conventional potting mixture (2:1:1) is good for growth of pepper cuttings and is economical. Recommended for black pepper nurseries for large scale multiplication. Solarized potting mixture supplemented with nutrient solution (urea, superphosphate, MOP and magnesium sulphate in 4:3:2:1 ratio) and fortified with biocontrol consortia promotes growth and helps in production of disease free rooted cuttings. When polythene bags are used, sufficient number of holes (16-20) may be provided at the base to ensure good drainage. The cuttings should be planted at least one node deep in the soil. The cutting after planting should be kept under good shade. In large nurseries, pandals are to be constructed for this purpose. The cuttings are to be well protected from direct sunlight and frequent watering is recommended in the nursery to maintain a humid and cool atmosphere around the cuttings. Watering 2-3 times a day is sufficient. Heavy watering, which makes the soil slushy and causes water logging is to be avoided.
http://www.celkau.in/Crops/Spices/Pepper/planting_materials.aspx

Quote
An investigation was carried out to study the influence of arbuscular mycorrhizae (AM) on induction of rooting and other root characteristics of pepper cultivar Panniyur-1. Among three AM fungi tried tested, the maximum percentage rooting was observed in cuttings inoculated with Acaulospora laevis (69.96%). Orthotropic cuttings showed a higher rooting percentage on inoculation with AM. Mycorrhizal inoculation also improved other root characteristics. Among the different AM fungi tried, Gigaspora margarita was efficient in producing the maximum number of primary roots and dry weight of roots, whereas the longest primary root was observed with the inoculation of Glomus fasciculatum. The plant P content was found to be higher in the inoculated plants. It was significantly higher in cuttings inoculated with G. fasciculatum (0.202%). The percentage root colonization and spore count were found to be higher in cuttings inoculated with A. laevis. The present investigation clearly showed the beneficial effects of inoculation with AM fungi which resulted in enhanced rooting and root growth in black pepper cuttings.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304423801002990

P. BETEL
Quote
Pot culture experiments were conducted in Orissa, India during 1986 and 1987 with betelvine cuttings. The minimum time to root initiation (4.66 days) and sprouting (9.66 days), occurred when betelvine cuttings were dipped in 50 ppm solution of indole butyric acid (IBA) for 12 hours before planting. However, there was no significant difference between IBA alone and a mixture of IBA and naphthalene acetic acid (NAA). IBA at 100 ppm promoted further development of main and branch roots contributing to better vigour of the sprouts. The maximum weight of dry roots was obtained using 100 ppm IBA + 500 ppm NAA.
http://www.cabdirect.org/abstracts/19906774219.html

P. CROCATUM
Quote
The research was conducted at the cutting red betel (Piper crocatum Ruiz and Pav.)...
The results showed that the NAA concentration of 4000 ppm produced the most number of roots on either at the node or at the base of cutting.  Planting cutting red betel which given IBA 1.000 ppm was able to accelerated the time leaves open and increased the number of cutting which germinate.  The mixtured of giving IBA 1.000 ppm and the concentration of NAA 4.000 ppm, produced the most number of cutting that germinated.
http://jptonline.or.id/index.php/ojs-jpt/article/view/10

-thats all I could dig up-
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 08:45:27 PM by MassSpectrum »

Kapiak

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Could P. nigrum be sown with good results, or is there a particular reason why you'd like cuttings apart from quicker results?

Cuttings won't make it to New Guinea, so hence my question about seeds as we'd like to grow black pepper here too in our orchard but haven't been able to find it anywhere here yet (A source said living specimens have been imported in the past but no one seem to know where we can find them today..)

HIfarm

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There are a couple of reasons to go with cuttings.  Pepper is dioecious by nature.  Commercial clones are typically hermaphrodite and are often selected for flavor, berry size, disease resistance, etc.  If grown from seed, the seedlings can often come out as dioecious and, like with any seedling, there is no guarantee that other qualities that the clone may be known for will come through.  So, if you are planning to grow it for pepper production, cuttings are the way to go -- if growing as a novelty, seeds are probably fine.  I have tried starting seeds for some of the more uncommon pepper species & have gotten zero germination.  I suspect that the readily available seeds are often too old for good germination.

John

Kapiak

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Thanks John, that's good to know. Hermaphrodite/monoecious plants would be an given choice  then, we are not focused at big production though but rather for our own use and maybe selling some of the surplus. But it would be much easier with hermaphrodite plants than to try to sow and find out what gender those seedlings have and then plant them accordingly.

Umm, anyone in Singapore area with monoecious plants with cuttings available, perhaps?

Sumatraexotics

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I know piper ornatum, in java called sirih merah/ red betel. The java one with glossy leave, the rare one in deep jungle of sumatra national park I find the not glossy one, the pattern more beautiful then the glossy sirih mersh from java.
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Sumatraexotics

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I also ever found the hairy rounded thick leave pepper in sumatra forest. Unfortunately it died. Leave, stem, all covered hairy.
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Sumatraexotics

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Sumatra non glossy ornatum??
« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 08:21:24 AM by Sumatraexotics »
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Sumatraexotics

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The hairy thick leave
« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 08:13:59 AM by Sumatraexotics »
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Sumatraexotics

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The common glossy ornatum.
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MassSpectrum

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Hey thanks for posting those pics, cool plants! Does that species have any human consumption type uses?

Sumatraexotics

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Hey thanks for posting those pics, cool plants! Does that species have any human consumption type uses?

Yes, ornatum. As herbal tea.
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ericalynne

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I have vanilla vines and would trade for unusual sweet potato slips or edible gingers.
Erica

MassSpectrum

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I have vanilla vines and would trade for unusual sweet potato slips or edible gingers.
Erica

Got in tons of news flowing DNA's this summer, especially in the heirloom SP & edible ginger dept.'s. Over 50 SP types total now, many of which I'll soon be able to start snagging vines from. Have something like 20 new choice ginger/turmeric types, but aside from kampheria galanga most of that lot that I have prepped inventory are already in the site.

How much spare vanilla do you have? I found some some sweet closeout deals on green, green/yellow & green/white this week to polish off the tidbits I got in during early summer. Should be able to get some solid specimens for each into the site no problem come early next year. BUT if you have a bunch to spare it'd be nice to get some live materials up in stock now, SO if you have a bunch (or a little) I'm still open to trades, pretty much for 'as much' as you might have potentially... We can match 3 node units for the vines, and then I can polish off scraping thru my ginger roots list (3 white turm types, other things too). I could work on the gingers now, but it'll be a good couple weeks probably until I can more properly snag from the new SP's assuming you wanna big trade, as I'll send as many types as you want to match 3-node units. Let me know!

MassSpectrum

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Likewise I still looking to trade for 'as much' Black Pepper, Long Pepper etc as might be able to get. Willing to match rooted live plants from my array, or like described just above with say rare sweet potato types or edible ginger family, dragon fruit, etc. I've a rooted P.nigrum on the way now, but looking to get this species all stoked pumping out germplasms here like I have the Betel Pepper & family.

So for 3 node segments (of any edible piper's I dont have) I'll match likewise with the sorts of equivalents I can offer, as many types as you want, for bulk of the species piper(s) you can offer.

MassSpectrum

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Likewise I still looking to trade for 'as much' Black Pepper, Long Pepper etc as might be able to get. Willing to match rooted live plants from my array, or like described just above with say rare sweet potato types or edible ginger family, dragon fruit, tropical leaf veggies, etc. I've a rooted P.nigrum on the way now, but looking to get this species all stoked pumping out germplasms rabid here like I have the Betel Pepper & family.

So for 3 node cut segments (of any edible piper's I dont have) I'll match likewise with the sorts of equivalents I can offer, as many types as you want, for bulk of the species piper(s) you can offer.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 04:40:41 PM by MassSpectrum »

jmc96

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I have this Piper Nigrum that is not a climbing vine. A fruiting spur occurs at every node and has always been in fruit. Can anyone id this one?





 

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