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Author Topic: Asimina Trilobas in the wild  (Read 15843 times)

Bob407

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #50 on: March 31, 2015, 05:50:03 PM »
Excellent! Keep us posted and pictures are a must!  Being that close to your house take us through the season with pictures, please! You could purchase a small tub of chicken livers and spread those around the area to attract flies for pollination.

Will do...I tried to take a few yesterday but the iPhone wasn't cooperating (can't focus on close objects GRRR).

Secretly collecting and depositing roadkill beneath the trees did actually cross my mind...chicken livers would be a lot easier, since all I have to put stuff in is the family minivan  ;D



Now I know you are from Tennessee! I actually typed out an entire paragragh and decided to delete the part about utilizing road kill (some may find it unappealing). I however would be on the scout for the first piece of asphalt jerky that I could find. It has been mentioned to hang it in the tree but I wouldn't do that because you might get a bear that decides to tear the tree up to get to it. If you notice in my pics I use my hand as a back drop so the focus doesn't go past the intended shot.
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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #51 on: April 02, 2015, 07:41:12 PM »
Went back out today and found that about 20% of the flower buds had turned purple and started to open:





The hand-behind-the-subject trick worked for getting focused pictures! I didn't think i'd had to do that in the past, but oh well!
I guess I was surprised at how small the flowers are. I don't know if it's all pawpaw flowers or only because these are perhaps not in ideal conditions.

This is the biggest and most flower-covered tree, but unfortunately for any hand-pollinating most of the flowers are out of reach.



None of the flowers were actually mature (at either stage) yet, I don't think.

Bob407

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #52 on: April 02, 2015, 07:52:30 PM »
Great pictures! Is there a stream nearby?
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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #53 on: April 02, 2015, 11:02:28 PM »
Great pictures! Is there a stream nearby?
Not directly nearby...perhaps 50 feet away there is a very small ephemeral stream that's dry at the moment.
But definitely creeks/streams are common areas to find these. I've found other patches, however, not near water at all, such as in David Crockett State Park in Lawrenceburg.

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #54 on: April 14, 2015, 07:42:43 PM »
Finally got back out to my new nearby pawpaw patch to check the flowers.
What a gorgeous sight - I was as giddy as a kid on Christmas morning.
I found flowers in all different stages. Here are the pictures. I would love to hear the experts weigh-in on which pictures (A through E) represent which stages, and whether any of the stages are viable for either pollen collection or deposition.
Some flowers that I did not photograph were tighter and smaller but still had visible reproductive parts. From Ed's descriptions on the Asiminaholics Anonymous thread, I assume these would be the ideal stage for pollen reception. But I'm interested particularly if any of the pictures below show receptive flowers, because there weren't many of the tighter/less developed flowers.

Also as a side note, I saw many flowers crawling with ants, and some with spiders. I've never heard reference to either of these arthropods being pollinators of the pawpaw. Anyone have an opinion?










Guanabanus

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #55 on: April 14, 2015, 10:53:19 PM »
A and C appear to be male stage, with pollen available.  E looks receptive.

I have worked with other Asimina species, but not with Asimina triloba.
Har

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #56 on: April 15, 2015, 01:21:47 AM »
I agree with Har. I would actually pollinate even prior to the stage of flower E. The rest are definitely male stage ready for you to harvest pollen and E is hours away from being ready to harvest pollen.

Ed

A and C appear to be male stage, with pollen available.  E looks receptive.

I have worked with other Asimina species, but not with Asimina triloba.

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #57 on: April 15, 2015, 09:54:44 AM »
Thanks, gentlemen!

My guesses were that A and C were ready for pollen collection (i.e. mature male stage); B and D were maybe receptive (anthers not yet mature, but not sure if still too late for female receptivity); and E was probably too late to be receptive but anthers were still immature (sort of an in-between stage, like Ed mentioned.)

So I guess my main dilemma is how to spot the female receptive stage.
Is it any flower that looks younger than A and C or even E?

When I was in the patch, I just grabbed pollen from flowers that looked like A and C and spread them to any flowers that did NOT look like A and C  ;D ;D
I guess that's a cover-all-the-bases method, but I'd still like to have a more precise understanding.

Also - any thoughts on whether ants/spiders are viable natural pollinators?

Bob407

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #58 on: April 15, 2015, 10:59:43 AM »
Anthony, you have your own pawpaw laboratory. Pollinate away and see what happens, at best we will all have a chance to learn vicariously from your experience. Thank you for your time and devotion.
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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #59 on: April 15, 2015, 11:46:24 AM »
Anthony, you have your own pawpaw laboratory. Pollinate away and see what happens, at best we will all have a chance to learn vicariously from your experience. Thank you for your time and devotion.

Thanks, Bob! Yeah, seeing all those flowers and trying to "make babies" was one of the coolest things ever for me. My kids think i'm nuts (even my forum-member son who got me started on fruit), and I'm not sure I blame 'em!
I don't really know why i'm so crazy about this fruit, but I am.
Well, I guess I do know why, but I even surprise myself with how obsessed I am.

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #61 on: April 15, 2015, 02:32:00 PM »
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14323.msg182328#msg182328


Thanks, Ed! I had read your comment there a while ago but didn't get to review it prior to hitting the field.
What you say there pretty well seals it up - for me the key about receptive stage is that the petals are tighter and smaller. Unfortunately most of the flowers I pollinated were more fully open and dark like those in the pictures I posted. There were a few that looked more exactly like the picture in your post.
The perfectionist in me wants to know exactly when the flowers are no longer receptive but that's probably unknowable in an absolute sense :)
Thanks!!

edself65

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #62 on: April 15, 2015, 05:53:39 PM »
Good luck! I have been hand pollinating pawpaw flowers for several years and I always look for the bright green interior and slightly opened flowers. Once the petals flare out and the interior color is dim I don't consider that flower receptive to pollen. Just my experience.

 Ed

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #63 on: April 16, 2015, 08:58:51 PM »
Good luck! I have been hand pollinating pawpaw flowers for several years and I always look for the bright green interior and slightly opened flowers. Once the petals flare out and the interior color is dim I don't consider that flower receptive to pollen. Just my experience.

 Ed

Sounds great, Ed!
I went back to my patch today to do some more pollinating. I wanted to pay closer attention to the flowers to look for ones similar to your top photo in the A.A. thread.
I definitely found some flowers that more closely or exactly resembled the flower in that picture. I will say that they weren't as abundant as later-stage flowers. I do think I missed the biggest window of opportunity by a few days (I knew I needed to get out there but was too busy.)
I think most of the flowers I pollinated the first time were probably past the ideal stage.
Today I definitely noticed flowers with the "glistening" stigmas that you described. I just wish there were more of them!
It seems to me now, based on my extremely limited experience, that the receptive stage likely doesn't last too long.  :o
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As for my visit today: I went further up the hill and was thrilled to find several more trees sporting decent amounts of flowers. I also took some pictures that I wanted to post for feedback:


Assuming this is the remains of an un-pollinated flower?


This appears to be a successfully pollinated flower that's winding-down and preparing to drop its petals, etc. True?


Are these teeny-tiny pawpaw fruits? I sure hope so - there were lots of these around.

Bob407

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #64 on: April 16, 2015, 09:28:23 PM »
Those are pawpaws forming in the last pic. Glad to hear you found some more trees close by.
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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #65 on: April 16, 2015, 09:41:42 PM »
Those are pawpaws forming in the last pic. Glad to hear you found some more trees close by.

Thanks!
Would there be any benefit to thinning any of the small fruits?
As you can see, I am just using this patch to kind of experiment and learn hands-on. The only fruit I've had experience growing is Fig, and we all know there's not much to that!

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #66 on: April 16, 2015, 10:22:18 PM »
The only way that I would interfere with nature is pollinating. I would let all the fruits that form do their thing and watch the process unfold. Many of the trees that I saw while in TN that had fruit on them in the early stages would be all gone or considerably less when I went back later on. This is only an opinion though.
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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #67 on: May 18, 2015, 12:52:56 PM »
I checked-in on my pawpaw patch yesterday and came away a bit crestfallen.

I only spotted about 5 fruits among scores of trees.

I could swear that the last time I was there, before everything fully leafed-out, there were several clusters of baby fruits on the trees.
So either they all dropped or I just couldn't see them (it is hard to spot pawpaw fruit in the canopy thanks to their green coloration).
We did have literally 3 weeks with no rain recently. Perhaps this induced a drop?

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #68 on: May 19, 2015, 09:51:12 AM »
Extrapolating from experience with Annonas, I'd say your supposition about drought is a good bet.

Other possibilities:

Inadequate pollination [not enough viable seeds to merit fruit retention];

Mineral deficiency [Calcium, Boron, Zinc....].
Har

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #69 on: May 19, 2015, 11:27:44 AM »
Extrapolating from experience with Annonas, I'd say your supposition about drought is a good bet.

Other possibilities:

Inadequate pollination [not enough viable seeds to merit fruit retention];

Mineral deficiency [Calcium, Boron, Zinc....].

Thanks, Har!

I will of course keep checking on the trees, but my expectations have been lowered significantly. Will have to check other patches I know of which are unfortunately farther away.

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #70 on: June 30, 2015, 11:32:02 AM »
Went back to the local pawpaw patch couple days ago and was pleased to find (now that the fruits are bigger and easier to see) a total of around 10 fruits.

They were the size of racquet balls, approximately.

So now my crazy mind is wondering what, if anything, I can do to preserve these for my eating pleasure rather than some 'possum.

Would it make sense to put some netting around them to catch them when they drop? Not sure if that would deter a hungry marsupial....

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #71 on: July 07, 2015, 08:39:17 AM »
One way to disinvite hungry paw paw eaters is to enclose the unripe fruit in a plastic grocery bag that is tied above the fruit branch with the bag loop handles. The fluffy plastic bag does not look like food, especially since the colored bag is hard to see through. A small hole at the lowest part of the bag's bottom will allow any rainfall that enters from the top to drain. When the fruit ripens, it falls into the bag. When checking on the ripening progress, you can lightly squeeze the fruit through the bag to see if it is beginning to soften. I don't pick them until they are ripe enough to fall into the bag, but I guess that you may choose to break them off if soft enough when hiking out to the woods to check them. Of course the bags will attract the attention of other 2 legged wanderers out hiking.

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #72 on: July 07, 2015, 10:42:54 AM »
One way to disinvite hungry paw paw eaters is to enclose the unripe fruit in a plastic grocery bag that is tied above the fruit branch with the bag loop handles. The fluffy plastic bag does not look like food, especially since the colored bag is hard to see through. A small hole at the lowest part of the bag's bottom will allow any rainfall that enters from the top to drain. When the fruit ripens, it falls into the bag. When checking on the ripening progress, you can lightly squeeze the fruit through the bag to see if it is beginning to soften. I don't pick them until they are ripe enough to fall into the bag, but I guess that you may choose to break them off if soft enough when hiking out to the woods to check them. Of course the bags will attract the attention of other 2 legged wanderers out hiking.

Perfect - thanks! I will perhaps give that a try. Hopefully not an issue since these are off the beaten path a bit

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #73 on: July 18, 2015, 09:52:20 AM »
The fruit is half or less in Size compared to grafted plant fruits ?! But it's fantastic to see Asimina grow wild....is it common or rare to see it wild in United States?

Bob407

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #74 on: July 18, 2015, 10:59:41 AM »
The fruit is half or less in Size compared to grafted plant fruits ?! But it's fantastic to see Asimina grow wild....is it common or rare to see it wild in United States?

They are around if you know where to look; river banks, low lying areas that receive occasional flooding, higher altitude shaded areas that stay moist and in mountainous areas where spring fed streams flow year round. The issue is that most people aren't familiar with the fruit, even in areas where it flourishes. The plants that I have found have fruit that vary in size and in flavor too.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2015, 11:02:23 AM by Bob407 »
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