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Author Topic: Asimina Trilobas in the wild  (Read 21514 times)

Triloba Tracker

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #75 on: July 24, 2015, 02:32:11 PM »
I went out and managed to bag (i.e. wrap with a plastic shopping bag) about 7 fruits.

The fruits had a nice shape but are still pretty small....3 inches long at the most, I'd say.

So not having ever been able to watch these fruits mature, I am wondering - how much do these fruits tend to grow as they reach full maturity? Do they grow steadily or have a late surge in growth? Or maybe these are as big as they'll get?

Obviously time will tell but I was just curious...

P.S. I found 3 maypop vines and another large-looking stand of pawpaw in the park that I had not noticed before. Didn't have time to scope it out...

Delvi83

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #76 on: August 24, 2015, 04:37:17 AM »
Is Asimina triloba an invasive plant? How does it colonize new area? Does it spread fast?
« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 04:50:22 AM by Delvi83 »

Triloba Tracker

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #77 on: August 24, 2015, 03:12:41 PM »
Is Asimina triloba an invasive plant? How does it colonize new area? Does it spread fast?

No, not invasive. In the wild I think it's safe to say it spreads clonally via root suckers more so than via seed (fruit in the wild is somewhat uncommon, at least in my experience in Tennessee).

No, it does not spread fast. It's too slow-growing to be considered invasive and it requires shade in the early stages which, I suppose, limits its ability to spread. 

As far as colonizing new areas, that would have to be via seed deposition by animals, I suppose.

Delvi83

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #78 on: August 27, 2015, 07:51:52 AM »
I thought it was invasive for the via root sucker propagation....but how far can you find e new sucker?

The need of shadow could also be an advantage, think an underwood (or should i say underbrush?) habit....Asimina is one of the few that can thrive well

From the sea

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #79 on: September 14, 2015, 02:48:16 PM »
my buddy in West Virginia just sent me 4 wild ones from his property, just have to say wow! apparently he has a lot of fruit this year.

Bob407

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #80 on: September 14, 2015, 06:36:14 PM »
my buddy in West Virginia just sent me 4 wild ones from his property, just have to say wow! apparently he has a lot of fruit this year.

How would you describe the flavors? I know they can vary widely. While in Tennessee I noticed no two trees I found tasted even remotely the same, even though they were all excellent except for one particular tree. I like them so much I had to bring a "Sunflower" to the island. I have no expectations of fruit but it is an attractive plant in it's own right.
Life is good

From the sea

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #81 on: September 14, 2015, 07:58:26 PM »
They taste kind of like a banana, but there was this soursop flavor in there with out the sour and fiber. it took me 2 fruit to figure out the soursop thing, my description is not doing it justice. I am going to plant the seeds and my buddy is bringing me a root sucker to try as well.

Bob407

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #82 on: September 14, 2015, 08:21:43 PM »
Nice!
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Triloba Tracker

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #83 on: September 14, 2015, 09:12:32 PM »
All the trees i so gleefully attempted to pollinate and the fruits I later bagged for protection ended up yielding precious few fruits.

All I got out of the whole deal were 3 small fruits. There had been 2 really big (for a wild tree anyway) fruits hanging out of reach but they were gone on my most recent visit.

Animals had raided all my bags except one.

But the 3 I had were good....they just make me want even more. The flavor is really indescribable. It is definitely a blend of flavors but completely unique among all the fruits i've tasted.
Oddly I get very little banana flavor...to me it's more cherimoya/pineapple/jackfruit/mango.

I may finally plant my seedlings next year but will also try again to pollinate these wild trees. I keep finding more.

From the sea

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #84 on: September 15, 2015, 09:40:12 AM »
the banana is mostly in the smell and texture but it is a hard flavor to describe very tropical.

Triloba Tracker

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #85 on: September 22, 2015, 10:06:12 AM »
the banana is mostly in the smell and texture but it is a hard flavor to describe very tropical.

I ate a couple more wild fruits today and for the first time (perhaps through power of suggestion!) I detected some banana, but artificial banana flavor. That's a great flavor so it's all good!

Shame the flesh to seed ratio is so low in most wild fruits. Really makes me want to grow a selected variety.

googer

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #86 on: November 03, 2015, 11:54:36 PM »
Hello, all. I was lucky enough to stumble across this site recently, and I am impressed with your efforts - especially Triloba Tracker's - in collecting and disseminating all this information about A. triloba.

I had a bear of a time finding any fruits this season. I had no trouble finding their clonal groves, but the fruits were extremely difficult to find. I eventually managed to locate five small fruits by the tail end of the season. The fruit was somewhat sweet, but very rich - almost like dark chocolate, extremely different from any flavor description I've ever read. Overall, inferior fruit compared to the pawpaws I tried last year that got me hooked on this fruit in the first place. The trees seemed to grow pretty vigorously - so I'm cold-treating the seeds for the winter and hoping to get some good rootstock out of them.

Triloba Tracker

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #87 on: November 04, 2015, 11:49:21 AM »
Googer - thanks for the shout out

Sorry you had bad luck this year. I didn't have much myself - kind of a letdown, but more motivation for next year.
The fruits you did find definitely sound off - maybe too ripe, hard to say.


googer

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #88 on: November 04, 2015, 12:59:17 PM »
It wouldn't surprise me if they were a bit too far gone. The runts I discovered were found in mid to late September, definitely later fruits. Fortunately, I know what really good pawpaw tastes like, so it didn't put me off too much. I was more interested in getting some seeds this year anyway.

I'm surprised you didn't have much luck though, considering your attempts to pollinate the trees by hand. I'm definitely going to be trying my hand at manual pollination come next spring. But I wonder why you didn't get many fruit. Do you think that most of the flowers didn't take to pollination, or was it simply critters beating you to the fruit? I'm aiming to have the local trees positively laden with pawpaw by next August, so any pointers you or anyone else have would be very welcome.

Triloba Tracker

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #89 on: November 09, 2015, 12:45:48 PM »
It wouldn't surprise me if they were a bit too far gone. The runts I discovered were found in mid to late September, definitely later fruits. Fortunately, I know what really good pawpaw tastes like, so it didn't put me off too much. I was more interested in getting some seeds this year anyway.

I'm surprised you didn't have much luck though, considering your attempts to pollinate the trees by hand. I'm definitely going to be trying my hand at manual pollination come next spring. But I wonder why you didn't get many fruit. Do you think that most of the flowers didn't take to pollination, or was it simply critters beating you to the fruit? I'm aiming to have the local trees positively laden with pawpaw by next August, so any pointers you or anyone else have would be very welcome.

Yeah, overall the hand pollination was not all that successful. The critters did beat me to a few fruits, but mostly I think it was just low fruit set in general.
Here are my thoughts:
1) First timer effect - I think a lot of the female-stage flowers I was dabbing were not actually receptive. I think the receptive stage is a lot earlier than I realized.
2) self-incompatibility - I was using flowers from the same tree in many cases. Plus if you consider that pawpaws are clonal, even several feet away I could've been working on the same "tree." (assuming any self-incompatibility would extend to sucker-produced trees)
3) Dry spell in early summer - we had a wicked dry/hot spell that may have caused several fruits to drop. I didn't count, but early-on I thought I saw many tiny baby fruits on the trees. Much later when I went back to check, many were gone. So I think several fruits just dropped or were aborted for some reason.

My plans for next year are to deliberately cross-pollinate from different pawpaw patches. I also won't bother with bagging the fruit - the varmints tore right thru it anyway. Maybe mesh cages around them would work :)

Guanabanus

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #90 on: November 09, 2015, 03:37:27 PM »
All three of your points look valid.

There may be a fourth one:  deficiency of Boron or of Zinc.
Har

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #91 on: November 09, 2015, 03:59:59 PM »
All three of your points look valid.

There may be a fourth one:  deficiency of Boron or of Zinc.

Thanks, Har!
Good to know. hmmm I could sprinkle some Mule Team Borax around the trees!

Guanabanus

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #92 on: November 09, 2015, 08:02:39 PM »
Careful!  20-mule Borax was the first commercial herbicide! 

You will need a specific recommended rate, to mix in water and spray on the ground.
Har

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #93 on: November 09, 2015, 08:15:25 PM »
Careful!  20-mule Borax was the first commercial herbicide! 

You will need a specific recommended rate, to mix in water and spray on the ground.

Ah yes! Gotcha..I wasn't entirely serious but definitely a good reminder.

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #94 on: October 12, 2019, 07:36:17 AM »
Anyone else been Foraging this year
 found one last year with a pineapple taste (90% seed)

didn't go back this year to that particular spot (at pawpaw fest)
since I was with some people I meet
(nor did I refind one with 4 seeds (Normal taste but could next year as took a different path with no wild rose, bier bushes )

I am trying to breed / graft types
any late/early  types to extend the growing season
also wanted to go back to New Orleans as I know a spot 10 miles south of New Orleans (NOLA)
(information lost in my email , but too late this year I think where Duckworth originated )

Also interested In Asimina ( Flowers)species from FLORIDA as I think it woiuld be great to breed root stock
Apple has many root stocks(see MidFEx), (edit) using M27 or P22 root stock)
and a dwarf or a tiny yard with 100's of pawpaw types sounds enticing.

I'd like to do this with Pawpaw Any help with flowers this spring please Help
http://www.midfex.org/App_Pages/Yale/intro.aspx
« Last Edit: October 12, 2019, 07:40:16 AM by Francis_Eric »

Francis_Eric

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #95 on: October 12, 2019, 01:17:02 PM »
May have made Misspoken  about Duckworth cultivar ---- (EDIT or maybe not seedling of Louisiana Plant)
(sorry read it didn't look at the spread sheet. before typing )


Just saw on KYSU (looking up blue stain disease)
that That was selected By Eric Duckworth in San mateo Florida (i saw LA. in other places (edit) guess I was somewhat right )
50 miles East of Gainesville Florida (northern Florida)-- ( there is that Nursery that sells them in Gainesville FL.)

Although I may have found a starting place to graft to or breed Asimina triloba (selection ) for my Dwarf idea root stock
Duckworth b grows Only to a   Shurb (wonder if it's part dwarf pawpaw A. parviflora)
(of coarse I know of all the other species A.parviflora dwarf pawpaw)
(book smart, but sadly no experience Yet in 2019) even  A. manasota
http://www.botanicalexplorer.com/current.html

Cool they said there have been Triploids hybrids have also been reported
usually diploid 2n=2x =18
See taxonomy in link.

I know there are 2 Asimina Triloba  KYSU (, and neal Peterson) looked at)
that where graft Incompatable ,

http://kysu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/PomperLayne2005.pdf

usirius

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #96 on: October 14, 2019, 03:34:27 PM »
@Francis_Eric : Interesting thought creating dwarf common Paw Paws by grafting on weak-growing rootstocks and to plant so many cultivars on narrowest space. But do hybridization rootstocks still have to be cultivated?  The simplest would be to graft A. triloba onto the weak-growing A. parviflora. Should be compatible, because both Asimina species are very similar and can also be hybridized. I'm in the process of attracting several Dwarf Paw Paws plants, and in case I will have enough plants, I could start Trials of grafting. Of course I am knowing that most Dwarf Paw Paws are not quite as hardy than the Common Paw Paw....so this would make it necessary to create new hardy dwarf rootstocks by hybridization from  A. triloba with any Dwarf Paw Paw. As said there are hybrids of A. triloba and A. parviflora already existing. Some days ago I got some seeds  from such a hybrid from a good friend. I will grow theem to see whether they split genetically into their parents or maintain hybrid characteristics, in particular dwarfism and winter hardiness.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 03:50:37 PM by usirius »
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Francis_Eric

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #97 on: October 14, 2019, 03:56:26 PM »
I know Jerry Lehman before He passed Crossed them (dwarf)
He said He tore the Parviflora Out , He was trying to keep his seeds as (I mena Open pollinated As best as posible , and didn't want Him selected ones getting Any Parviflora )

Cliff England has some seeds

I am not certain what to se as the Mother plant
As I am just experimenting (and it has been a while since I've read up Sometimes It sticks in your head better when you do it)
I was suppose to travel this year to breed somewhere. (I have good Intuition )

I would cross though A with B = c (the Offspring)

Take c the baby  , and back cross it with A or B

Year One
I may even Take Asimina Triloba As a Mother (get ) C from pollen from A. Parviflora
----------Take Asimina Parviflora As a Mother (get)  c from pollen from A. triloba
the resulting Cc hybrids with different mothers (as pollen donors) cross those, and see what happens


I am not certain , but I also have some other Idea's , (but they are pretty out there)
 , but why not , and just grow them in the firest for the fun of it.

Like take the seediest Type, and cross with the seediest type
back cross with the first seedy type

Maybe Nature would revert back to a Non seedy type
Or maybe it would be useful for something other then fruit (like root stock)
(bad tasting fruit does make better wine, and liquor however -- So maybe breed bad fruit)

There is a book online (free 100 years old)
that states when a plants population is being polluted with the same pollen
IN breeding I mean through many generations

The offspring will eventually Completely change around
it's Natures way of having Genetic diversity
(It was about persimmons though.)

Francis_Eric

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #98 on: October 14, 2019, 04:09:59 PM »
I know Jerry Lehman before He passed Crossed them (dwarf)
He said He tore the Parviflora Out , He was trying to keep his seeds as (I mena Open pollinated As best as posible , and didn't want Him selected ones getting Any Parviflora )
(bad tasting fruit does make better wine, and liquor however -- So maybe breed bad fruit)

I mean't to say Jerry Lehman had A. parviflora , and they get -10 F (or -22 C)
We get -20 F (or -28 C)

Not to mention that polar Vortex we had (5 years ago I was gone ) , and last year
I know it was like -40 F

I only meet Him Twice , but I am sure Jerry would of let me cross some of his trees
He was so close (unfortunately None of my A Parviflora where any good seeds)

I mean't to say Bad tasting fruit Make better wine
Not in reference to my Asimina Triloba, and parviflora cross idea
, but to try to breed bitter tasting fruit Intentionally
(some people do like em Black, and bitter I like bitter , bt they taste like Burn't Marshmallow to be
Kinda like hop tea boiled to long, but hey does well in beer (I'm no beer IPA maker (yet) just like bitter tea )

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Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
« Reply #99 on: October 14, 2019, 04:19:10 PM »
@Francis_Eric : Interesting thought creating dwarf common Paw Paws by grafting on weak-growing rootstocks and to plant so many cultivars on narrowest space. But do hybridization rootstocks still have to be cultivated?

Oh Grow the seeds Snap the root in half, and get a clone like that
Keep the snapped half in a zip lock bag with air (puffed ) inside the bag sealed to raise the humidity.

Did it after snapped the seed part by accident they will re grow (a experiment I done many times)
KYSU even has something about clones from a 2 month cutting of root (mine where not that old)

People gather the root suckers , but haven't learned on doing this large scale yet, but root clone is a start
maybe if someone could do tissue culture .

KYSU tells they haven't yet, but they do Use sunflower for there root stocks so that doesn't make sense to me?
unless they have a large amount of Sunflower Pawpaw , and gather the Runners from each tree.

 

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