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Author Topic: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?  (Read 7102 times)

simon_grow

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Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« on: October 16, 2014, 11:07:59 AM »
Hello everyone, I was wondering if anyone has updates on their multiple rootstock mango tree? My multiple rootstock Maha Chanok was growing fine but the second rootstock died after 1 year. There was good healing but my grafting cuts were horrible and in hindsite, both rootstocks I used were much too mature and this is what I'm attributing my failure to.

I feel that multiple rootstock Mango trees are under utilized, especially here in California were Mangos don't grow as fast as in areas like Florida. The benefits of multiple rootstocks are reported to be increased precosity, increased growth but with dwarfing effect on size, inhibition of alternate bearing, increased yield, possible increased disease resistance and for those that live in hurricane prone areas, I would assume multiple rootstocks have better resistance to high winds and uprooting of trees.

I know that there are several people out there with multiple rootstock trees and I was wondering how they are doing? Do you notice a difference in growth rate or a difference in the structure of the tree? Are any of your trees bearing yet? Please feel free to post anything relating to multiple rootstock technology including pictures, techniques, links. Thanks in advance!

Simon

xshen

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2014, 12:17:58 PM »
Simon,
You mentioned that you attribute the death of the second rootstock to age. How thick were the rootstocks when you first grafted them compared to the manila seedlings sold at HD?  I am thinking about doing multiple rootstocks using HD manila seedlings onto my mallika and a recently grafted Maha Chanok.  My mango growing experience is very limited but I heard these two are very slow growing trees.  Max is a big fan of multiple rootstocks maybe he can chime in.  Ive seen his multi rootstock longan and citrus trees but I am not sure if he has multi rootstock mangos.

simon_grow

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2014, 12:48:56 PM »
Both trees were green on the verge of turning brown. My other mistake was that I did not cut deep deep enough. I forget exactly but my memory recalls that the cuts should be approximately 1/4 to 1/3 the width of the trunks.
Simon

nch

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2014, 01:01:18 PM »
I didn't try with mangos, but I did an approach graft with 2 cherimoyas which isn't doing too well. I think I tied them together too tight, and left the ties on too long. I also didn't cut deep enough. I think the thing to do is to be bold when you cut, but a little mellow when you tie the trees together.

simon_grow

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2014, 07:24:36 PM »
There are several members of this forum that are extremely skilled grafters.  I believe most the successes I've seen have come from adding rootstocks that were very young.  I was hoping there was somebody from SoCal that has a multiple rootstock mango.

I have several seedlings growing really well right now, just seeds from various mangos I've eaten and scattered around my yard.  I will be digging them up shortly to begin another round of multiple rootstock grafting.  I am going to try to add 1 manilla and one Kent/Haden/Keitt.  I will probably use a LZ scion for the top unless I can find a variety that I like more, which I have not yet found:)

Simon

nch

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2014, 07:47:36 PM »
Simon, do the seedlings tolerate transplant well? I have a bunch of seedlings in my yard too, but am waiting till next spring to dig them up.

barath

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2014, 11:26:55 PM »
I'm also very interested in whether multiple rootstock Mangos help productivity in California, especially in marginal climates for Mangos like mine.

CoPlantNut

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2014, 12:06:10 AM »
I have 3 multi-rootstock mangoes (9 months - 14 months old); all are growing well and much faster than single-rootstock mangoes, but none are to fruiting size yet.  The first multi-rootstock mango I grafted (Pickering on top) about 2 years ago was given away and I don't know if it is still alive or not.

   Kevin

marklee

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2014, 01:27:01 AM »
Simon,

I have a few doing good. I have Zebda with a Paul Thompson variety in the ground, a Glenn, Thompson and unknown Thai shaped variety in a 15 gallon. So far I have only had fruit from the Zebda which is the most precocious variety I have ever grafted, in one year it put out a few limbs each a few feet long.

TheULTIMATE

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Re:Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2014, 06:51:00 AM »
Hey Everyone Did You Know how many months or day the grafted mango heal.



because i have grafted mango. :)
 

Thanks. :)
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 10:54:06 AM by TheULTIMATE »

barath

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2015, 12:29:05 AM »
I have a specific question about multi-rootstock Mangos when using polyembryonic seeds.  Suppose you took a Manila and grew it from seed, direct sown.  It might produce two seedlings, one true Manila and one not.  If you were to then approach graft the other seedling, and after the graft healed cut off the top of that seedling, would that effectively give you a Manila with two (different) rootstocks?  Is there any disadvantage to this approach to multi-rootstocking a Mango?

And if the second rootstock ends up dying say from root rot, does that hurt the main trunk or the other rootstock?

fruit4me

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2015, 02:12:09 AM »
Update on my double rootstock Alphonso mango tree. I planted in the ground a few weeks ago. The rootstocks were from store bought mangos which I inacrched together first. The rootstocks were at least a year old before I grafted the alphonso scion onto it. I think I grafted the alphonso around August 2013. This little guy should take off pretty quickly. Im planning on hitting it with some nitrogen then cutting off the bloom instead of waiting for fruitlets to set. Hopefully, no second bloom.

Here it is now



« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 04:27:25 AM by fruit4me »

simon_grow

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2015, 01:16:08 PM »
Hey fruitforme,

Your tree looks great and growing strong. Do you have a picture of the section where you innarched? I would like to know how long and deep your cuts were and also how high up you in arched.  Thanks,

Simon

fruit4me

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2015, 06:00:44 PM »
Simon

Here is a picture of the inarched graft union. This was done at the early green stage. The union on the scion is also visible. It has healed in beautifully.


Here are pictures of Mahachanok on single rootstock for comparison. It's the same age. No big difference so far. Should of had the maha on double rootstock. Wasn't thinking of the time.




Max

simon_grow

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2015, 06:33:03 PM »
Hey Max, that graft is beautiful! I added an additional Manilla rootstock onto my Maha Chanok several years ago and the graft initially took but then died after about one year. Thanks for the pictures! You just inspired me to plant many seeds this year so I can perform many many multiple rootstock grafts.

Simon

sapote

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2015, 10:22:18 PM »
Hello Max,

I'm interested to learn your grafting technique. So you planted two seeds next to each other for the double root stock. How old were the seedlings when you inarched  them together? what diameter of the root stock when grafting alphonol scion to it, and in what month? I'm in Burbank so your technique is great for me.

Brian

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2015, 12:19:30 AM »
Hello Max,

I'm interested to learn your grafting technique. So you planted two seeds next to each other for the double root stock. How old were the seedlings when you inarched  them together? what diameter of the root stock when grafting alphonol scion to it, and in what month? I'm in Burbank so your technique is great for me.

Brian

I read about this technique but haven't tested it yet.

You take some different mangoseeds and plant them next to eachother in a pot. When they sprout you tie them against eachother and just let them grow. After a while the stems have been fused if all goes well.

I'm trying it right now but i cut the bark of them a little so they make good contact.

i used poly-seeds and tied all the sprouts up.

darkcoolboo

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2015, 01:35:35 AM »
What types of stor  bought mango was the rootstock? Was it Tommy Atkin or manila?

fruit4me

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2015, 02:20:11 AM »
Hello Max,

I'm interested to learn your grafting technique. So you planted two seeds next to each other for the double root stock. How old were the seedlings when you inarched  them together? what diameter of the root stock when grafting alphonol scion to it, and in what month? I'm in Burbank so your technique is great for me.

Brian

Hi Brian, I inarched the two seedlings when they are close to the size of a pencil. Then I graft the scion on the stronger seedling and wait for scion to push out and completely harden off 1st flush of leaves. I do not decapitate the other seedling yet, just incase my scion fails, I still have the other seedling to graft onto. Inarching can be done any time of year. Grafting the the alphonso scion was done around August. Some pictures of a lemon zest I did in last August. I have not remove any of the tie tape yet.



Darkcoolboo
I don't know what type of seedling I used for the alphonso. It could be any variety available out in the markets kents, kietts, manilas . Theses are the main types I buy.



Max

simon_grow

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2015, 09:40:00 AM »
Hey Max, how deep did you make your cuts? Also, how long were your cuts? I mean, how much contact do the seedlings have? About 2-3 inches? Thanks

Simon

fruit4me

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2015, 09:47:51 PM »
Simon
The cut's are not very deep, just enough to expose the hard wood. 2 inches in length is good enough. As long as both the seedlings have contact on their open wounds , it will stick together. I usually leave the tie tape on for a really time to ensure complete fusion. No need to worry about choking the tree. But for the scion part of the graft, I remove tape after second flush has harden off.


Max
« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 09:53:06 PM by fruit4me »

Samu

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2015, 12:08:32 PM »
Hey Max, that graft is beautiful! I added an additional Manilla rootstock onto my Maha Chanok several years ago and the graft initially took but then died after about one year. Thanks for the pictures! You just inspired me to plant many seeds this year so I can perform many many multiple rootstock grafts.

Simon

Hi Simon,
Sorry to hear about your unfortunate result of your graft after it took initially. When you added that Manila rootstock to your Maha Chanok, did you in arched the Manila to the rootstock part of Maha Chanok or to the scion part; or it doesn't make any difference?

This multiple rootstock posts really interest me too-after reading the long list of benefits as stated at Dizon's website-, so hopefully I will get myself involved with this soon...
Sam

simon_grow

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2015, 12:21:09 AM »
Hello Sam, when I innarched my Maha, I grafted the Manilla onto the Maha and not the rootstock if I remember correctly. I purchased my Maha from Plantogram and I believe it was a fairly low graft. If you are going to try this multiple rootstock grafting, I would recommend a low graft so that you will have less chance of getting sprouts from either of your rootstocks and you will have less less stress on your tree compared to if you performed a high graft that left a big gap between the two rootstocks.

This year, I'm going to try using about 1 foot tall green seedlings.

Simon

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2015, 12:06:12 AM »
Ok Simon, advice well taken, low graft; thanks!

Seems to me that it's easier to do multirootstocking from "scratch": using 2 (or more) seedlings -like fruit4me did above- than to do "add on"; where the existing tree and the new seedling are not at the same age.

However, I buried one or 2 mango seeds next to my manilas, also a seed or two next to my avocado tree, we'll see... :)
Sam

simon_grow

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2015, 09:00:37 PM »
Ok Simon, advice well taken, low graft; thanks!

Seems to me that it's easier to do multirootstocking from "scratch": using 2 (or more) seedlings -like fruit4me did above- than to do "add on"; where the existing tree and the new seedling are not at the same age.

However, I buried one or 2 mango seeds next to my manilas, also a seed or two next to my avocado tree, we'll see... :)

Yup, that's exactly what I'm going to do. Use two or more seedlings like fruit forme.  I'll try to post some pics of my next attempts.

Simon

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2015, 03:29:31 PM »
I was watching a youtube video in which a stone graft is done with two rootstocks per scion:
https://youtu.be/hzBerXm1WCY?t=19m18s

barath

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2015, 07:49:42 PM »
Just to revive this thread -- anyone in California (especially outside of the LA area, where Mangos do well) have any recommendations on which store mangoes yield vigorous seedlings / trees?  At the store right now there are Keitt, Ataulfo, Kent, Hayden, and Tommy Atkins.  I'm thinking of seeding multiple and doing approach grafts with them to set up a multi-rootstock situation, but wasn't sure which are the best bet.

Thanks!

Tropicdude

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2015, 03:48:36 AM »
I did two,   have one with Pickering, and the other with Kesar.

The Pickering I grafted really high,  not pretty, was that I had the dual rootstock already made for many months before I decided to graft onto it and it grew in size. plus only had the one scion, and had to match the size.

anyway both plants are doing very well.  still in containers.
William
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Vernmented

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2015, 04:24:41 PM »
I have been planting seeds around a few different types of trees in my yard to attempt this as well. My reasoning was to plant a seed directly in ground next to a grafted plant that was purchased in a pot. This way the new seedling will grow out with its taproot naturally working its way down in the soil. I am especially excited to see how this works with my lychees since they are air layered with the exception of a grafted Emperor that is still in the pot. Everything is still young sprouts at this point but I toured a friends place that did this with a bunch of different jackfruits and they are doing fantastic. I like the idea of giving trees the taproot they would naturally have. The concept seems perfect but we will see how this works out in the real world. Hopefully some of the jackfruit inarches will produce some fruit.
-Josh

simon_grow

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2015, 05:47:35 PM »
Just to revive this thread -- anyone in California (especially outside of the LA area, where Mangos do well) have any recommendations on which store mangoes yield vigorous seedlings / trees?  At the store right now there are Keitt, Ataulfo, Kent, Hayden, and Tommy Atkins.  I'm thinking of seeding multiple and doing approach grafts with them to set up a multi-rootstock situation, but wasn't sure which are the best bet.

Thanks!


The strongest sprouts for me are Kent, Keitt, Haden and Tommy Atkins. All of the monoembryonic mangos with large seeds give me vigorous sprouts. My polyembryonic mango seedlings come up weak but there are reports that Manilla seedlings may be more cold hardy and adapt to our souls better.

Instead of innarching the seedlings together, try double stone grafting: http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16549.0
Simon

barath

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2015, 12:00:53 AM »
Thanks Simon.  I'll go with the big monoembryonic ones then.  I saw your post on the other thread about double stone grafting -- looks very cool.  I hope I can match up the scion width to be exactly the width of the two rootstocks together!

StPeteMango

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2015, 12:03:53 AM »
Can grafting only be done on to a seedling?
Or can one graft on to a healthy grown tree that is a grafted one to begin with?
My Graham is 8-9 feet tall, very healthy with excellent branching, but it is not very productive and the fruit are mediocre.
Wondering if it is possible to graft other mango varieties on to it. Or cut it down and start all over again with another tree in that spot.
Someone posted a link to a video on mango grafting techniques, and I'm getting ideas. But from the video, it was not clear whether the trees getting the grafts were grown from seed (with tap root) or were themselves grafted varieties.

wslau

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2015, 12:57:52 AM »
Can grafting only be done on to a seedling?
Or can one graft on to a healthy grown tree that is a grafted one to begin with?
My Graham is 8-9 feet tall, very healthy with excellent branching, but it is not very productive and the fruit are mediocre.
Wondering if it is possible to graft other mango varieties on to it. Or cut it down and start all over again with another tree in that spot.
Someone posted a link to a video on mango grafting techniques, and I'm getting ideas. But from the video, it was not clear whether the trees getting the grafts were grown from seed (with tap root) or were themselves grafted varieties.

StPete,

No, grafting is not restricted to seedling trees.
Yes, you can "top-work" your grafted Graham tree with scions of more desirable varieties.
Watch this video from Tim Thompson on top working a mango tree.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N4MB23FFi8
Good luck!

Warren

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2015, 06:38:03 AM »
Thanks, Warren.

simon_grow

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Re: Anybody have updates on their multiple rootstock Mango tree?
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2015, 01:15:36 PM »
StPeteMango, that video Warren posted is informative but I wouldn't use that method personally because his graft has contact with the cambium on only one side and he was only able to get one scion onto that rootstock. Instead of cutting the rootstock in the middle, I would do two bark grafts across from each other and both scions will have contact on both sides. See the double stone grafting thread where I have a picture of a small rootstock, approx 1 inch diameter, with two scion that were bark grafted.

I always clean my grafting tools really well and make sure not to use any rusty equipment to minimize contamination.

Simon

 

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