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Author Topic: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?  (Read 7436 times)

behlgarden

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2012, 01:31:48 AM »
Interesting. Time to buy real asian manila mango.so.it could be seeded.  How about seeding 4 poly and then combine themost vigrous from each and then inarch them? Thats my plan.

behlgarden

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2012, 12:16:40 PM »
Gary, I am disappointed to report that my seeds also apper to be mono. I am about to get a sprout soon and if its only one sprout, I will not be allowed to live. I am going to asian market this noon to get real poly mango!

MangoFang

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2012, 03:32:12 PM »
well....behl.....sorry about that news......so the Manila's, which I've NEVER sprouted after eating, should be poly?



gary

zands

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2012, 04:04:53 PM »
well....behl.....sorry about that news......so the Manila's, which I've NEVER sprouted after eating, should be poly?



gary


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There it was all the time, staring you in the face. Buried within the message itself, is the key..

behlgarden

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2012, 04:10:27 PM »
Yes, all Manila mangoes including Altufo, Changange, etc. are suppose to be Poly! I picked up 3 manila mangoes from supermarket today, so I can eat, more so sprout! LOL  Also got 20 lbs of delicious lychees for $43

zands

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2012, 04:27:16 PM »
Yes, all Manila mangoes including Altufo, Changange, etc. are suppose to be Poly! I picked up 3 manila mangoes from supermarket today, so I can eat, more so sprout! LOL  Also got 20 lbs of delicious lychees for $43

You got better lychee deal than LycheeLuva he will not be happy
There it was all the time, staring you in the face. Buried within the message itself, is the key..

behlgarden

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2012, 04:30:40 PM »
I would have gotten 40 lbs for $75, but I wanted to see how fast my two monsters can clean 20 lbs. it will be on the dinner table tonight!

Charlie23

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2012, 04:37:05 PM »
i take it no one has successfully fruited an ataulfo mango tree grown from seed yet still right? i grew some last year, guess i got a few more years to go..

zands

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2012, 05:23:57 PM »
I would have gotten 40 lbs for $75, but I wanted to see how fast my two monsters can clean 20 lbs. it will be on the dinner table tonight!

Teach them young what real food is!
There it was all the time, staring you in the face. Buried within the message itself, is the key..

behlgarden

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2012, 05:44:20 PM »
My kids love them! I remember last year combined they went thru 3 lbs in a day! Right now they are doping on mangoes! LOL, they ate half of all our Cherimoya, green peas off the vine, and dont let tomatoes get red on the plant.  Not trying to sabotage the thread.

Back to Mangoes! I will plant my Poly Manila today!
« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 05:55:04 PM by behlgarden »

Tim

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2012, 05:52:32 PM »
Quote
Teach them young what real food is!

lmao... you know, to some people, they seem to think i'm corrupting young minds  ;D ;D ;D
I've introduced countless tropical fruits to my "acquaintances" and so far, luckily, none have a negative comment on anything.  They seem more eager, if anything, to explore the unknown tropical fruit world that's oblivious to the norm.  Only the passive observers have anything negative to say, which to me is hilarious because they refuse to try but always have something to say.
Tim

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2012, 06:06:40 PM »
Quote
Teach them young what real food is!

lmao... you know, to some people, they seem to think i'm corrupting young minds  ;D ;D ;D
I've introduced countless tropical fruits to my "acquaintances" and so far, luckily, none have a negative comment on anything.  They seem more eager, if anything, to explore the unknown tropical fruit world that's oblivious to the norm.  Only the passive observers have anything negative to say, which to me is hilarious because they refuse to try but always have something to say.

Careful! That was the charge against Socrates: corrupting the youth. Sentence was: exile or death. Socrates chose death! But i don't think you or Socrates have corrputed anyone, quite the contrary!  :)
Oscar

behlgarden

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2012, 11:08:43 AM »
well....behl.....sorry about that news......so the Manila's, which I've NEVER sprouted after eating, should be poly?



gary


Gary, I sowed two Alfufo seeds, one from Costco and one from Asian Market. One from Costco sprouted one seedling quickly and now I see two more, so I got 3 seedlings sprouting. I may get the 4th one here as well within a few days.



 

Mike T

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2012, 03:45:07 PM »
All the preferred mango varieties here are polys and routinely seed grown.Commercial growers often prefer to plant KP seedlings.Sam ru du, the massive fruiting cedar bay/rabaul,keow saewoy,rad,okrung and many other preferred cultivars seem to fruit pretty true and are seed grown quite often.Nurseries give the choice of grafted or seedlings for many polys.

behlgarden

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2012, 03:48:29 PM »
I am doing it for experiment. I want to in arch graft the hell out of it next year

Tim

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2012, 07:02:19 PM »
Har - if I was to remove the outer husk of a polyembryonic seed, separate all the embryos - is it safe to assume "most of the times" the off-type is the biggest embryo within that husk?

In the 1990's, two or three other persons and I looked over 40,000-80,000 gallon pots, each with a Turpentine polyembryonic seed in it, to remove off-types and weaklings, and to transplant some of the better extras.
One year genetic testing was done to check on our decision making about the more similar-looking ones, not the grossly obvious ones.   The nursery owner and I both got better than 80%.

Often the strongest-looking ones are off-types.  Of course, grossly contorted ones and chlorotic ones and strangely colored ones and greasy-leafed ones are usually off-types.

The early strength of mango seedlings is largely determined by embryo (seed) size--- so early vigor is neutral for determining standard (a.k.a. type or "pure") versus off-type Turpentines.  Nurserys that prefer the biggest seedlings are "keeping it simple" for their own immediate convenience, but many of these plants will no longer be vigorous when they run out of food stored in the seed.

A "type" (think of "typical") is a clone of the mother tree and does not have a father (pollen grain).

An off-type is produced by sex--- even when a tree has sex between its own flowers, variation is produced.

On the market one can find Nam Doc Mai #4 and others--- which variations presumably are off-types which arose by Nam Doc Mai trees' self-pollinating.
Tim

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #41 on: July 06, 2012, 10:53:50 PM »
Manila : I was given one of these during the Mango Fest, and I planted the seed, it sprouted in 5 days ! I planted it in a 1 gallon fabric pot, and plan to do that double root thingy with it.

Osteen: I tried one during the same event, it wasnt ripe yet, but was mild, sweet, and firm, I like the texture of this mango, but I want to try a whole, fully ripe Osteen.   this tree is on a genoplasm reserve, and I asked the owner, which variety out of all the varieties he has he thought would be the best in taste and for commercial farming,  he recommended the Osteen.

This week i will be planting a lot more seeds from the "Banilejo" variety which are now in season, these are the locals favorites, they are also Poly, and used as rootstock for other varieties. they are decent, but small, thin skinned, the flesh is firm and very sweet, there is some fiber around the seed. I have been eating 2 a day for seeds haha.   want to have enough of these planted to use for practicing all the grafting techniques written about in here, including the stone graft and double rooting etc.
William
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fruitlovers

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #42 on: July 06, 2012, 11:18:18 PM »
Somebody locally is producing Osteen mangos for sale. I would put them on par with Florigon as far as taste. They both have a nice, but very mild taste, not full bodied mango taste. But the Osteen wins hands down on attractive exterior coloration. The Osteen fruits for sale were really huge, some in 4-5 pound size. Was also really bizarre to see these mangos for sale in March! I'm still trying to figure out how that was possible??
Oscar

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2012, 03:42:07 PM »
Hi,

I got some poly mangoes running already...Okrung, Carabao, Thong dam and Nam doc mai 8) I will post pics soon.

My observations on these poly mangoes...Thong Dam and Okrung are very vigorous with very thick healthy shoots 8) Carabao and Nam doc mai also look great...not as vigorous as Thong Dam and Okrung...all of them have several shoots 8)   
Steven

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2012, 04:11:32 PM »
Regarding clone vs. Off type in poly embryonic, from basic high school bio in 1997, in polyembryonic scenario the ovule splits a couple of times forming several embryos. Only one gets fertilized and the others are clones.

The one that's fertilized is usually the strongest due to it's being attached to the cotyledons for a much larger nutrient reservoir. Clones can vary in size and are not attached to anything. Clone tissue can sometimes get pretty big but that's not the norm.

Find out the "hybrid" by separating the seedlings and look for the one attached to cotyledons.

Isn't having the clones being stronger than fertilized embryo too good to be true? If that were the case wouldn't polyembryonic plants become all clones in the end due to weak "hybrids"? I encourage people to grow out the most vigorous seedlings and see whether they turn out superior to the mother tree. Good luck! :)

HMHausman

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #45 on: July 09, 2012, 04:32:59 PM »
Regarding clone vs. Off type in poly embryonic, from basic high school bio in 1997, in polyembryonic scenario the ovule splits a couple of times forming several embryos. Only one gets fertilized and the others are clones.

The one that's fertilized is usually the strongest due to it's being attached to the cotyledons for a much larger nutrient reservoir. Clones can vary in size and are not attached to anything. Clone tissue can sometimes get pretty big but that's not the norm.

Find out the "hybrid" by separating the seedlings and look for the one attached to cotyledons.

Isn't having the clones being stronger than fertilized embryo too good to be true? If that were the case wouldn't polyembryonic plants become all clones in the end due to weak "hybrids"? I encourage people to grow out the most vigorous seedlings and see whether they turn out superior to the mother tree. Good luck! :)

I cannot prove the accuracy of this, but it was always my understanding and belief that the most vigorous was most often the sexually produced sprout.  I usually do the "which one of these is not like the others....which one doesn't belong" method of trying to separate the sexually from the asexually produced sprouts.  However, it is not a fool proof method.

Harry
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Tropicdude

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #46 on: July 09, 2012, 06:41:48 PM »
Zygotes and clones it seems all confusing to me  :-\ knowing which is which. ok so in general the 1st or more vigorous sprout is NOT the clone, but the zygote.

the clones are the weaker secondary shoots ,,  correct?

This link kind of confirms this, but just wanted to know what peoples real experiences are.  seems some varieties are not as clear cut as that.

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0100-29452006000300025&script=sci_arttext

I have a question,  once you have decided on which shoot to keep, whats the safest way to get rid of the others, do I just cut them off? should I do it close to the seed or higher up?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 06:44:45 PM by Tropicdude »
William
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nullzero

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #47 on: July 09, 2012, 07:25:11 PM »
Been trying to find a source for poly mango variety seeds.... if anyone knows please message me.
Grow mainly edible and herbal plants. Favorites are the fruits, vegetables, and tea plants.

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #48 on: July 09, 2012, 08:29:16 PM »
Harry and tropicdude, yes that's exactly what I was trying to say. Nature favors the sexually produced sprout both by chance in random gene mixing and by extra nutrients in the form of attached cotyledons. There are still only 2 cotyledons in a polyembryonic seed and the fertilized embryo gets both of them.

But to add complication to the matter, what occasionally happens is the original ovule doesn't split evenly and you end up with a big piece of clone mother tissue with some smaller pieces. In that case the clone sprout can be more vigorous, but it's not common.

The only way to be absolutely sure is to take the seed apart. Let it germinate but loosen and separate the pieces in a bucket of water before the roots get entangled.

Tim

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2012, 09:05:27 PM »
So what's what in this picture of the two halves from a Sia Tong seed?


Tim

 

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