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Author Topic: Indian mango varieties  (Read 3904 times)

StPeteMango

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Indian mango varieties
« on: January 10, 2015, 01:33:48 PM »
Need some help, folks.
I've got the itch to plant a few more, and would appreciate tips/suggestions from those on this forum who have these varieties. Interested in input on taste, resistance to disease, size of tree. I have a roughly 12 x 12 foot space for each tree. A height of around 10-15 feet would be okay if it didn't require brutal pruning, so a smaller growth habit would be nice.
Also: If you have these trees, where did you get them?
I already have the following: Mallika, Neelam, NDM #4, Cogshall, Pickering and Graham.

I'm trying to choose three from among the following:
Indian: Benishan (Alampur Baneshan, as it is often referred to on this forum)
Indian: Imam Pasand (also known, I think, as the Himayath in and around Hyderabad, India)
Thai/Singaporean: Mahachanok
Florida-developed: Angie and Carrie
Open to alternatives

Was looking through old posts and Zands, I think, had said the benishan was prone to splitting.
I grew up eating the benishan (mostly Banganapally/Baiganpally) in India, and considered it superior to the Alphonso; then came the Mulgoba/Malgoba). But that was in the dry, hot environment in which it was developed, and in Florida's more humid climate it may not do as well. Neelam was scoffed at back in the day (I'm talking 1970s) as somewhat inferior, but I'm grateful for the one I have.

There are many benishan varieties: Alampur benishan, Banganpally benishan, Calcutta Benishan, Lal benishan (lal=red; the top of the fruit has a pinkish tinge) , Kaala benishan (kaala=dark; darkish hue), but those may be hard to come by, if not impossible.

Some etymology, if that's okay: It is "benishan" or "benishaan" (pronounced bay-nee-shaan); "be" ("bay") means "without" and "nishan" means "mark" or "blemish." So benishan is without mark or blemish. Pronouncing it "baa" nishan would be the exact opposite. "Baa" is "has."

Most of the space I have will be reclaimed from the lawn area, fenced off and heavily mulched. Have space for 5 trees there; in addition to the 3 mango trees, probably a guava and one other I haven't thought of. A Meyer lemon in a side yard is about dead and has to be cut down. That gives me space for the 6th; a dragon fruit is a possibility, or a couple of lime trees/bushes.

Squam256

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Re: Indian mango varieties
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2015, 02:17:47 PM »
Alampur Baneshan is a delicious mango but an absolutely horrible splitter. Worse than NDM #4, worse than Lancetilla.

Iman Passand I'm still evaluating but seems to do reasonably well in Florida and tastes pretty good.

You've probably already read plenty on Maha, Angie, and Carrie.....these are the 3 I would plant. I like them better than both Alampur Baneshan and Imam Passand, and I trust them to produce more reliably than those 2.

I've seen Banganapalli produce ok in Lake Worth. Its a pretty good, complex mango with a very strong aroma. Nobody is grafting it to my knowledge though.

You might also consider Bombay, thought to be the same as the Indian "Paheri" (or pairi, Pirie, spelled a number of different ways). I've seen Bombay trees produce very well in Bradenton. But reconsidering it, you're looking for a tree to keep under 15 ft so it wouldn't be a good option.

As far as where I got mine from, my Alampur Baneshan came from PIN, and the other 4 from Zill.

StPeteMango

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Re: Indian mango varieties
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2015, 02:46:27 PM »
Thanks, Squam.
PIN, I know, is retail; thought Zill sold only wholesale?
I was checking out Excalibur just now, and they seem to have all these varieties. Both Zill and Excalibur in Lake Worth ... So much easier for South Floridians. It's close to a 4 hour drive for us. Will see if my wife is interested in a Saturday drive and lunch  ;)
Haven't seen as much variety at Jene's or at Dodson Citrus; I think both get their stock from South Florida nurseries and resell the plants. The MC might be available at a Thai gentleman who keeps a stall at the Mustang Flea Market in Pinellas Park on Saturdays; got a great NDM from him a couple of years ago.
There's a lady who sells a few trees at the St. Pete Saturday morning market, but they don't look too happy.
Have read so much on the MC I would really like to get one -- even though I haven't tasted one yet! Not hung up on Indian varieties. Main criteria: taste, reliable producers, resistant to disease, easy to grow, smaller growth habit.
I'm from Hyderabad, India (left in 1986), but know the varieties that did will there will likely not do as well here. The winter there is very, very, dry (not as cold, though) and it starts getting brutally hot (100-110F) from March. The fruit is harvested before the monsoon begins in early June. What we're trying here is to grow them in conditions that are not optimum. But the sweet joy of success!

zands

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Re: Indian mango varieties
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2015, 04:02:28 PM »
Was looking through old posts and Zands, I think, had said the benishan was prone to splitting.

Not me. I don't have one. I have Langra Banarasi which has been a good producer of large fruits but the fruit was somewhat bland last year which was the first year. So maybe the fruits will get better. It produced like crazy compared to an older, larger Haden. I would axe the Haden long before the Langra Banarasi and I just might do so to put in an avocado

I have Fernanadin  (Goa origin) which grows upright like crazy. Going by the panicles I see, first fruit should be this year. Richard Campbell said give it no nitrogen due to it being such a vigorous grower, so I have fertilizing it less than other trees but it has wood chip mulch heaped around it. Sometimes I skip giving it NPK fertilizer.

Have Neelam.... fruits are variable but late season which is a plus +++
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 04:05:41 PM by zands »

StPeteMango

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Re: Indian mango varieties
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2015, 04:14:25 PM »
You're right, Zands, not you.
It was Squam, back in July 2013: "Alampur Baneshan produces reasonably well in Florida for an Indian mango but definitely has horrible issues with splitting. Its probably worse than NDM #4 in that regard actually." Had to Google, couldn't find it again in this forum. I had opened another tab to do the search, guess it doesn't work well that way. If I stay within the same window for the search, I can find it easily.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 04:16:34 PM by StPeteMango »

zands

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Re: Indian mango varieties
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2015, 04:22:45 PM »
I'm trying to choose three from among the following:
Indian: Benishan (Alampur Baneshan, as it is often referred to on this forum)
Indian: Imam Pasand (also known, I think, as the Himayath in and around Hyderabad, India)
Thai/Singaporean: Mahachanok
Florida-developed: Angie and Carrie
Open to alternatives


All the above depend on availability in nurseries...Except Carrie which is commonly available. Have you had Carrie? People from India really like it. I base this on the seven or so who have had it from my tree.

Squam256

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Re: Indian mango varieties
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2015, 04:46:50 PM »
Quote
PIN, I know, is retail; thought Zill sold only wholesale?

Yes, wholesale only.

Quote
I have Fernanadin  (Goa origin) which grows upright like crazy. Going by the panicles I see, first fruit should be this year. Richard Campbell said give it no nitrogen due to it being such a vigorous grower, so I have fertilizing it less than other trees but it has wood chip mulch heaped around it. Sometimes I skip giving it NPK fertilizer.

I'm growing this as well and have encountered the same issue with its growth habit. Very vertical. I have one in Loxahatchee that is blooming and ought to have some fruit this year.

StPeteMango

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Re: Indian mango varieties
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2015, 05:25:08 PM »
All the above depend on availability in nurseries...Except Carrie which is commonly available. Have you had Carrie? People from India really like it. I base this on the seven or so who have had it from my tree.

Love Carrie; I like most mangoes. Just trying to put some thought into the varieties I plant.
Haven't tasted Angie or MC.
Couple of guys at work have mango trees, and they used to get me NDMs, a Glen and a Carrie now and then. That got me hooked.
So in early 2013 I planted the 6 mango trees I have, plus a Ponkan mandarin and an Emperor lychee; looks like it will take the last two longer than the mango trees to start producing fruits.
Thought I was out of room until some creative rethinking of space made me realize some of the lawn needs go. Want to cut back on the lawn area in any case -- even with reclaimed water, it seems senseless to fertilize couple of times a year, water twice a week, mow weekly. Till recently, I was thinking of replacing some of the lawn area with ornamentals that need less maintenance. Then started thinking what I would really like to grow. Can still plant a few Hawaiian ti plants, a variegated ginger and schefflera trinettes around the periphery to give the area some curb appeal.
Carrie looks like a good bet. MC, too. Does Excalibur ship? If I can't find MC locally, it would be easier to get it shipped than drive 4 hours each way. If Angie is not available might get another Pickering, though I would like to add variety.
Also thinking of keeping some chickens, but that's another story. The older kid graduated a year ago and got a job out west; the younger one graduates this year and has a job lined up in NY. Now, as empty nesters, we have more time.

bsbullie

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Re: Indian mango varieties
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2015, 08:56:20 PM »
No, Excalibur does not ship.

Since you mention Indian mangoes, have you considered Mallika?   Seems to produce reasonably well for most and taste is excellent.
- Rob

StPeteMango

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Re: Indian mango varieties
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2015, 09:27:17 PM »
Rob, I have a Mallika; have had only few mangoes from it, but they are superb. Tempted to get another.
I'm beginning to understand the fruit-splitting tendency of the NDM; I like the flavor, just sorry to see the fruit loss.
Choices seen to narrow to MC, Carrie and another Mallika or a Pickering; between those 2, the Mallika wins by a narrow margin.
If I can't find MC locally, will see if a nursery can get me MC from Excalibur; even if they charge me the Excalibur price + shipping cost for another nursery, that's better than me making the 400-mile round trip.
Have to do some prep work over the next couple of months to kill off the grass and clear some of the lawn area. Basically, reroute the sprinklers and cover the grass with heavy plastic sheets.

Squam256

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Re: Indian mango varieties
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2015, 11:40:28 PM »
Another I think you might really like is Val-Carrie.

zands

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Re: Indian mango varieties
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2015, 08:16:43 AM »

Quote
I have Fernanadin  (Goa origin) which grows upright like crazy. Going by the panicles I see, first fruit should be this year. Richard Campbell said give it no nitrogen due to it being such a vigorous grower, so I have fertilizing it less than other trees but it has wood chip mulch heaped around it. Sometimes I skip giving it NPK fertilizer.

I'm growing this as well and have encountered the same issue with its growth habit. Very vertical. I have one in Loxahatchee that is blooming and ought to have some fruit this year.

I will PM you in  a few few months. I am predicting a small red winner. Your buyers will also like/be captivated by due to its red coloration

More on Fernandin and ‘Langra Benarsi’ mango at 2010 Fairchild mango festival which had the theme of Mangoes of India
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 08:23:37 AM by zands »

bsbullie

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Re: Indian mango varieties
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2015, 12:57:47 PM »
People  buying mangoes in Florida do not do so based on coloration, they do so almost solely on taste and to a minor degree texture.  If color was the factor, mangoes such as Tommy Atkins and Irwin would be best sellers...

I have sold a "few" mango trees and buyers concerns are taste and tree size.  I have also sold many a mango fruit, nobody has ever asked "where are the colorful mangoes".  If the the quality of the mango is very good to excellent  and happens to be colorful on the outside i guess that may be a bonus however  by the looks and popularity of  a Carre, Coconut Cream, Pineapple Pleasure, Lemon Zest, Orange Sherbet, Peach Cobbler, Seacrest, Venus, Beverly, Mallika, Gary, Pina Colada, Cushman, Val Carrie, Duncan (just to name a few popular sellers with little attractiveness ot coloration), makes me wonder.
- Rob

Squam256

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Re: Indian mango varieties
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2015, 01:35:49 PM »
Quote
People  buying mangoes in Florida do not do so based on coloration, they do so almost solely on taste and to a minor degree texture.  If color was the factor, mangoes such as Tommy Atkins and Irwin would be best sellers...

At the farm stand yes, color isn't important to most compared to eating quality, though even the most savvy buyers will still instinctively gravitate towards the prettier looking fruit in terms of what is available that also tastes good. E.g., the prettier Edwards will sell before the less colorful or blemished Edward

At farmers markets it's a different story, color is a huge seller. Mangos like Springfels, , Haden, Wally, and Irwin disappear quickly, even against better quality stuff. Lots of mango buyers out there that haven't yet learned about different mangos that aren't necessarily as pretty.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 05:03:22 PM by Squam256 »

bsbullie

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Re: Indian mango varieties
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2015, 01:53:10 PM »
Dont 100% agree with you.  As far as your Edwards, you are comparing perfect vs blemished,  not what the subject discussion is.

As far as the average Joe, the Ataulfo or "Champagne " is probably the best seller in stores and that is not what i would call colorful.  As far as international mango sales, Alphonso,  Kesar,  NDM  are some of the most prized and lack color.  Yes, the commercially produced mangoes do hsve color but that is because research shows that people buy with their eyes.  With that being said, a colorful mango with lousy taste and texture is not an economical product.  It also makes many say, which i am sure you have heard, that people who base their opinions on mangoes purchased in retail stores say they dont like mangoes.

As far as the people on this forum, it is not a matter of commercial sales but of backyard growing and personal consumption.   With that in mind, i stick to what i said.

By the way, same can be said as to size of the mango.  Bigger is not better.
- Rob

Squam256

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Re: Indian mango varieties
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2015, 03:19:14 PM »
Quote
Dont 100% agree with you.  As far as your Edwards, you are comparing perfect vs blemished,  not what the subject discussion is.

Not just blemished. Many people will buy more brilliantly colored mangos of the same cultivar over ones with less at the farm stand. Fewer will actually buy one variety over another just because of the color because people who seek out mango farms tend to actually know better. The point is that color does have an impact whether we like it or not.

But zands comment isn't without merit. There are plenty of mango loving customers at farmers markets in Florida that will grab up a mango like Fernandin due to its appearance, either because they just find the color appealing or because they associate it with a mango they grew up eating (often Haden). I've seen the effect plenty of times with people buying Springfels or Irwin over Duncans, even when offered the opinion that Duncan is superior. Wholesale buyers often prefer fruit with red or pink blush as well because they find it sells quicker.


 

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