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Author Topic: Asiminaholics Anonymous  (Read 69935 times)

Guanabanus

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Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« Reply #300 on: March 16, 2020, 10:01:28 PM »
Compare this nausea issue to the extreme allergy issue with mango, which is related to poison ivy and to poison sumac.

We aren't the least bit reticent to sell mangos.

Both pawpaws and mangos are superfoods and are entirely healthy for most persons. 

We can be allergic or hyper-sensitive to ANYTHING, including to skin contact with pure water.  I am allergic to over two dozen perfectly healthy foods.
Har

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Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« Reply #301 on: March 17, 2020, 11:38:37 AM »
Good points, Har.

I think regarding pawpaw it would be very helpful to have data rather than folklore around this topic.

I agree the majority of people are fine. Of course even if you do get a little nauseous, it's not serious. The only concern is as a salesperson, you wouldn't want that person spreading word of mouth that your fruit made them sick.

At the 2016 Pawpaw Conference, a gentleman shared a story of a NY state distillery that made some kind of pawpaw spirit. There was a party and supposedly some people got sick. The distiller threw out the whole batch.

I've often wondered about Jeni's Splendid Ice Creams, why they haven't made a pawpaw ice cream, since Jeni Britton Bauer is from Ohio and of course pawpaw ice cream rocks.
In Andy Moore's book, he mentions they did make a batch for a special event. I have often wondered if people got sick from that batch, dissuading the company from mass-producing pawpaw ice cream.

(note - i'm just thinking out loud here for the sake of discussion. In a way, I'm adding to the aforementioned folklore  :o)

usirius

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Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« Reply #302 on: March 17, 2020, 04:29:32 PM »
@Triloba Tracker and all:

It is not recommended eating dried pawpaw pulpe.

https://www.petersonpawpaws.com/faq: "What can I do with pawpaws besides eating them fresh?"
"(...) fresh eating of the yellow flesh (not the seeds or skin) is the best way to enjoy a pawpaw. Slice it open, spoon it out, and enjoy, spitting out the smooth seeds as you go. Several favored recipes for pawpaw include ice cream and smoothies, which I find wonderful. Beware however that baking with pawpaws may make you sick. Use caution when baking, try a little bit first and see how you feel before serving the goods to others. DO NOT MAKE PAWPAW FRUIT LEATHER! I have gotten many reports of people vomiting up their pawpaw fruit leather. Just enjoy it the way Mother Nature intended!"


And concerning allergic reaction I am referring to R. Neal Peterson to the topic "Are Paw Paws safe?" https://www.facebook.com/.../5895095.../3598492780264334/...

"Due to its potential for allergic reaction causing contact dermatitis and possible presence of pesticides, pawpaw consumption may be harmful to humans." [wikipedia.org/wiki/Asimina_triloba#Fruits]

Because of that statement, a question has arisen about the safety of eating pawpaws. According to the FDA,

“The pawpaw has a long history of food use and the FDA does not currently have any evidence that pawpaw is unsafe to eat.”
[communication to Dr. Kirk Pomper, Kentucky State University.]

Indeed, some people are allergic to pawpaw. This is not exceptional, however. Food allergies are many, the most common being
milk, eggs, fish, shellfish, tree nuts, peanuts, wheat, and soybeans. Among fruits the common ones are apple, peach and kiwi fruit. Less common are apricot, banana, cherry, coconut, date, fig, grape, lychee, mango, melon, orange, peach, pear, persimmon, pineapple, pomegranate, prune, strawberry, and tomato.
This list puts pawpaw allergy in perspective. Pawpaws are not unusual; and the same caution should be exercised in eating them as in eating other fruits.

The statement that pesticides are present in pawpaw seems peculiar. Pesticides are not being sprayed on the fruit ― never in the wild, and almost never in cultivation. This claim seems to be a poorly chosen wording, based on the fact, that pawpaw ― and other plants in the Annona family ― contain acetogenins, a class of potent compounds that have pesticidal properties.

Because of acetogenin’s potent bioactive properties, they are being investigated for their anti-cancer potential. Other research is investigating the neurotoxicity, using rat subjected to intravenous injection of purified acetogenins. The toxicity is expressed at higher doses than humans would ingest. The practical implication is unknown since realistic studies in which the pawpaw fruit is ingested have not been done. What is the absorption in the stomach and intestine? How much of the compound is detoxified by the liver? How quickly is it excreted?

We should not be surprised that plants contain toxic compounds. They are the plant’s defense against predation by insects, fungi, and animals. The food plants eaten around the world are full of bioactive compounds. A short list of the notable toxic compounds and their plant are these:
Cholinesterase inhibitors - in potatoes, tomatoes, and eggplant.
Protease inhibitors – in raw soybeans
Amylase inhibitors – in wheat flour
Tannins – in tea, coffee, and cocoa
Cyanogenic glycosides – in cassava
Glucosinolates – in cabbage, broccoli, Brussel sprouts, etc
Lectin proteins – in red kidney beans
Lathyrogens – in chick peas and vetch
Convicine and vicine – in fava beans

Moderation in eating pawpaw is the sensible approach. Consumption of one or two fresh fruits a day, in season, is normal; it is how humans have consumed them throughout the ages, and can do no harm. Daily consumption throughout the year, particularly of a tea brewed from the leaves, is probably unwise. Finally, and most importantly, do not inject pawpaw fruit directly into your veins. "


To avoid allergical reactions as well as possible by eating PawPaws I would recommend not eating skin or parts of the skin. For some people also the fleshy Skin around the seeds may cause stomach issues or allergical reactions.

And of course don't eat the seeds!
„May your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears.“ N. Mandela

TJ_westPA

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Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« Reply #303 on: March 17, 2020, 06:24:33 PM »
Here's that picture I mentioned before:
Wow! That is very yellow for a pawpaw! Is that from a specific variety? Wild find? KSU tree?

I definitely agree that we need more research and actual data on the nausea issue rather than just folklore.


@Triloba Tracker and all:

Thank you for adding in that post from Neal, usirius. And for your advice. I am part of that group where Neal first posted it and I have it saved on my computer so I can reference it to people who get worked up over the acetogenins and parkinsons thing. I agree with Neal on that 100%. Triloba and I were just discussing the issue of nausea from drying or baking and how that issue could use more research into what exactly causes it to happen. Neither of us were implying that pawpaws are unsafe or dangerous to eat. Just making that clear so people don't get too defensive or argumentative lol. I've seen several threads online devolve on that topic...

I have actually eaten the skin of pawpaw fruits (a couple times all of the skin with the pulp of a small pawpaw) several times just to see if it would have any adverse effects. Never had any issue. I certainly wouldn't recommend it to anyone but it's worth experimenting with a bit, if you dare lol.

Triloba Tracker

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Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« Reply #304 on: March 17, 2020, 07:30:04 PM »
Yep - I have no concerns about eating pawpaws. My only concern with the nausea issue is in regards to first-timers and fretting about that.

The yellow pawpaw is from a semi-wild tree - in a park in Nashville, but I suspect it was planted about 20 years or so ago. The fruits are really good, butterscotchy and no wild flavors, but they’re quite small. I grafted a seedling that was very vigorous but decided to re-graft with other scion due to small fruit size. 

SeaWalnut

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Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« Reply #305 on: March 17, 2020, 09:10:24 PM »
There is a pawpaw plantation in Serbia of more than 1000 trees( a lot of Prima) and they make distilled alcohol from them just like they make from plums ( slibovitsa).
I assume they ferment the pawpaws whole,with seeds and then they boil that slurry resulted so it could contain the toxin from the seeds or maybe the toxin its separated by distillation.
They are bragging about making alcohol from the rotten pawpaws quite a lot ,even in their grafted trees sale announcements.
Altough they boil the seeds too wich are toxic,i also boil plum,apricot seeds in the mixture when i make distilled alcohol and those seeds contain a lot of cyanide ( we are talking about wheelbarrows full of seeds) iet the alcoholic drink its safe to drink and probably contains somme traces of cyanide.

On the otther hand making liquour by mixing high strength alcohol with pawpaws and seeds ( the fruits and seeds are not distilled here) i think its possible that the toxin from the seeds could be disolved in alcohol and thus making the drink toxic.

SeaWalnut

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Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« Reply #306 on: March 18, 2020, 08:44:11 AM »
By the grace of Ulrich ( Usirius) ,i got a Susquehanna pawpaw.Dream come true because this its the orange pulp paw paw i wanted and im sure its verry different from the yellow pulp Sunflower or the whitish pulp Prima i have.
Now i am happy.Its in the square pot.

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Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« Reply #307 on: March 18, 2020, 09:44:29 AM »
Congrats! Susquehanna is an awesome pawpaw.

usirius

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Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« Reply #308 on: March 24, 2020, 05:04:58 PM »
By the grace of Ulrich ( Usirius) ,i got a Susquehanna pawpaw.Dream come true because this its the orange pulp paw paw i wanted and im sure its verry different from the yellow pulp Sunflower or the whitish pulp Prima i have.
Now i am happy.Its in the square pot.

I am glad that I could help you to get this Special PawPaw - from which Neal Peterson says,"Susquehanna is without a doubt my personal favorite, if I had to choose one."
I also will plant Susquehanna PawPaw in my garden this spring. I'm really excited about the aroma of the fruit, the fruit colour and the fruit size, but we will have to wait another 3 - 5 years - but time goes by faster than you think. Hope they will grow well!
„May your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears.“ N. Mandela

Triloba Tracker

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Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« Reply #309 on: March 31, 2020, 01:33:24 PM »
Pawpaws are flowering here in Tennessee.
In the woods there are a few early flowers already in the male stage.

In my orchard i have my first flowers, on a Shenandoah and Maria's Joy. It's only a few flowers per tree, as they are still smallish trees.
I nabbed some flowers from the woods and used them to hand-pollinate my flowers.

If the pollination is successful, i plan to thin to a single fruit per tree due to their size. Of course, that fruit might not hold to maturity.

usirius

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Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« Reply #310 on: April 02, 2020, 10:41:00 AM »
If the pollination is successful, i plan to thin to a single fruit per tree due to their size. Of course, that fruit might not hold to maturity.

Before the fruits have grown to their final size and before they are fully ripe, fix them to the branches with nets or mash bags. Put such a net around the fruit, even two or three, as the case may be, and fix the net with a clothespin, a cable tie or the like to the branch where the fruit grows. Bring light tension on the net so that the fruit is supported and no longer hangs with its full weight on its style. Firstly, the advantage is that they will not fall off before they are ripe in stronger winds; secondly, it has the advantage that they will not fall to the ground and be damaged; thirdly, it has the advantage that no animals will eat them or eat them up completely!

This picture here shows how I practice this. The fruits in the net only came loose when they were really fully ripe, and they still hang on the tree ;-)


« Last Edit: April 02, 2020, 10:42:58 AM by usirius »
„May your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears.“ N. Mandela

Triloba Tracker

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Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« Reply #311 on: April 02, 2020, 11:03:53 AM »
Thank you!
Yep I’d thought of a similar solution. So I will study your recommendation for sure!

usirius

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Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« Reply #312 on: April 03, 2020, 06:03:50 AM »
This sounds well! If you will decide another solution please let me know, maybe this could be better than mine one. I will than compare the solutions ;-)
„May your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears.“ N. Mandela

Triloba Tracker

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Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« Reply #313 on: April 03, 2020, 12:10:53 PM »
i forgot that a few years ago on a tree in the forest, i attached an empty flower pot to a branch, positioned under a cluster of fruit, and even put chicken wire over the top.

sure enough, it worked exactly as hoped. the only problem was that by the time i came back, the fruits were rotting in the pot  ;D

usirius

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Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« Reply #314 on: April 03, 2020, 04:34:08 PM »
The idea with the flower pot as a holder and fruit collection solution is also very good! Of course, you have to check it regularly, I say at least every two days! I control daily, and if you observe one or more bigger trees, it is worth it anyway, because permanently over two or three weeks, almost daily one or two or sometimes more fruits have fallen off.
„May your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears.“ N. Mandela

Luisport

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Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« Reply #315 on: April 08, 2020, 06:01:24 AM »
My two sunflower pawpaws full of flowers…



 

 


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Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« Reply #316 on: April 08, 2020, 11:48:29 AM »
Very nice, Luis!
I’m way behind you in flowers  ;D

I’m happy to report, however, that I have my first baby pawpaw fruits!
The pollination was successful.
Now we’ll have to see if they will hang on to maturity.

Also a nice surprise - one tree that I thought had dropped its flower buds over the winter in fact is pushing flowers after all! This tree is much better suited to holding fruit.

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Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« Reply #317 on: April 08, 2020, 01:13:12 PM »
Very nice, Luis!
I’m way behind you in flowers  ;D

I’m happy to report, however, that I have my first baby pawpaw fruits!
The pollination was successful.
Now we’ll have to see if they will hang on to maturity.

Also a nice surprise - one tree that I thought had dropped its flower buds over the winter in fact is pushing flowers after all! This tree is much better suited to holding fruit.
That's great! Congratuations!   ;)

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Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« Reply #318 on: April 13, 2020, 12:17:55 PM »
My one crazy 3 year old seedling that set a few flower buds last year finally dropped its last one  :'(

It had swelled a little, so for a while I thought it might open, but I’ll have to wait another year at least.
No problem

NateTheGreat

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Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« Reply #319 on: April 13, 2020, 12:31:31 PM »
Flowers are open on one of my trees, buds are on three or four more. Interesting that California is behind Tennessee in bloom time.

usirius

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Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« Reply #320 on: April 13, 2020, 04:09:00 PM »
Flowers are open on one of my trees, buds are on three or four more. Interesting that California is behind Tennessee in bloom time.

Too bad your anticipation was spoiled so quickly, but I know what it's like. They bloom a few times at first before they keep and train the fruit after maybe another two years.

The experience I have made on many trees is that the trunk at the bottom has to be about as thick as a man's thumb before the tree produces fruit for the first time and does not shed it while still small.
„May your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears.“ N. Mandela

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Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« Reply #321 on: April 13, 2020, 04:44:14 PM »
That’s good info - thanks!

The trunk on this seedling is much thicker than a thumb but of course it’s young. It’s over 6 feet tall.

Also - I ordered a Susquehanna tree!

I plotted a few more spots to put trees. I’m addicted for sure! It will bring me to 35 trees, and I will sow 3-4 more seeds directly in ground shortly (I’ve had near 100% germination in the ground so far.)

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Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« Reply #322 on: April 19, 2020, 09:24:36 PM »
Well, for those keeping score at home ....

There was a hard freeze here last Tuesday night. The broader region saw these low temps, in some cases 2 nights in a row.

I lost my fruitlets on Maria’s Joy and flowers on Lehman’s Chiffon. Apparently fruitlets on Shenandoah survived.
But leaves had already begun emerging prior to the freeze, and almost all were killed.

KSU reports 80% crop loss.

Not good!

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Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« Reply #323 on: April 26, 2020, 10:34:29 AM »
Sunflower pawpaw looking good!   ;D



 





 



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Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« Reply #324 on: April 26, 2020, 10:41:24 AM »
Very nice

 

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