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Author Topic: Fruit ID - update, identified as Helicostylis pedunculata  (Read 7254 times)

Colombo973

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Fruit ID - update, identified as Helicostylis pedunculata
« on: April 07, 2015, 10:21:39 AM »
Hi everybody,
Is someone here can help me to identify this fruit ?
I found it on the ground in primary forest, it was not easy to see from which tree it come but i finally succeeded to take pictures of hanging fruits and the leaves.
I'm thinking about an annonaceae but not sure.
The fruits i've collected was over ripe so i didn't try to taste them (lot of worms inside too) but there is a good pulp ratio and smell is pretty interesting.
Any advice is welcome !







« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 02:03:28 PM by Colombo973 »

Tropicaliste

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Re: Fruit ID
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2015, 04:52:02 PM »
Rollinia emarginata?

FlyingFoxFruits

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Re: Fruit ID
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2015, 09:47:07 PM »
no it looks like a close relative of osage orange..it could be in the same genus, Maclura...but definitely is Moraceae.

HIfarm

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Re: Fruit ID
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2015, 10:27:50 PM »
maybe Batocarpus sp?  Never seen one (fruit) so this is just a wild guess after Adam's Moraceae speculation ...

John

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Re: Fruit ID
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2015, 04:01:38 AM »
If you post a close up photo of the seed can tell if it is annonaceae or something else.
Oscar

stuartdaly88

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Re: Fruit ID
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2015, 04:15:54 AM »
Look of the fruit reminds me of a mulberry alot!
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau

micah

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Re: Fruit ID
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2015, 11:57:28 AM »
Looks yummy
I'm guessing too
Helicostylis tomentosa, Helicostylis ?
If its right do I get seed? As my prize? :)

FlyingFoxFruits

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Re: Fruit ID
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2015, 01:02:32 PM »
If you post a close up photo of the seed can tell if it is annonaceae or something else.

it's not annonaceae, it's definitely moraceae

Colombo973

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Re: Fruit ID
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2015, 02:30:22 PM »
If you post a close up photo of the seed can tell if it is annonaceae or something else.


Here a seeds close up :



The seed shape and low number in fruits ( 3 to 6) does not tend in favor of annonaceae.
Micah seems to have hit good, as Helicostylis tomentosa seem very close of the fruit i've found.
I will try to find not worms full filled fruits and taste it. I hope to stay alive after  ::)
« Last Edit: April 10, 2015, 08:27:54 PM by Colombo973 »

Viking Guy

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Re: Fruit ID
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2015, 08:40:12 PM »
It looks like an over ripe Myrianthus arboreus to me.  Probably a giant yellow that matured too quickly.

FlyingFoxFruits

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Re: Fruit ID
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2015, 08:44:49 PM »
Looks yummy
I'm guessing too
Helicostylis tomentosa, Helicostylis ?
If its right do I get seed? As my prize? :)


this is the closest species I've seen so far.
http://postimg.cc/image/jjz0xcoj5/
« Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 08:46:48 PM by FlyingFoxFruits »

Viking Guy

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Re: Fruit ID
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2015, 08:50:38 PM »
Looks yummy
I'm guessing too
Helicostylis tomentosa, Helicostylis ?
If its right do I get seed? As my prize? :)


this is the closest species I've seen so far.
http://postimg.cc/image/jjz0xcoj5/


Seeds don't look right for an HT

Colombo973

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Re: Fruit ID
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2015, 02:21:04 PM »
Looks yummy
I'm guessing too
Helicostylis tomentosa, Helicostylis ?
If its right do I get seed? As my prize? :)


this is the closest species I've seen so far.
http://postimg.cc/image/jjz0xcoj5/


Seeds don't look right for an HT


I found a pic of Helicostylis tomentosa seeds, it look really similar :

http://fm2.fieldmuseum.org/plantguides/view.asp?chkbox=22242

It looks like an over ripe Myrianthus arboreus to me.  Probably a giant yellow that matured too quickly.


Myrianthus is not present wild in the Guianas and from the seeds i've saw, they are very close to Pourouma cecropiifolia in appearance. It's not the case for this fruit.

Probability is high for an Helicostylis. I've read that H. tomentosa fruits are delicious http://tropical.theferns.info/viewtropical.php?id=Helicostylis+tomentosa
I can't wait to climb the tree to taste fresh fruits !

Viking Guy

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Re: Fruit ID
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2015, 04:16:41 PM »
That is not it--to me anyhow.  Those seeds still don't look similar.  They should have a 360 depression along the sides which bubbles and swells once soaked.

I'm sticking with my original assumption.

Also, HT fruit doesn't have stems as they bud right off the bark, nor is the fruit texture the same.  The MA fruit has stems just like the one in the OP photo.

Could be a similar variety, and even though it may or may not be a native variety doesn't mean it couldn't have been introduced.

stuartdaly88

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Re: Fruit ID
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2015, 04:29:09 PM »
If it is Helicostylis tomentosa I will literally sell my car to get some seeds. I don't think I have ever wanted a plant so badly in all my life.
Reportedly Delicious fruit and halcinogenic sap possibly canabanoids how outrageously interesting!!!!!! I collect fruiting plants and entheogens(not for use just for ethnobotanical interest mostly) so it's two for one special 8)
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Colombo973

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Re: Fruit ID
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2015, 06:54:00 PM »
That is not it--to me anyhow.  Those seeds still don't look similar.  They should have a 360 depression along the sides which bubbles and swells once soaked.

I'm sticking with my original assumption.

Also, HT fruit doesn't have stems as they bud right off the bark, nor is the fruit texture the same.  The MA fruit has stems just like the one in the OP photo.

Could be a similar variety, and even though it may or may not be a native variety doesn't mean it couldn't have been introduced.

You are right about fruit stem ! HT doesn't have it, so, it can not be HT.
But i think it can not be MA too, because MA have digitately compound leaves like others Cecropiaceae. The tree found have alternate leaves that are far away from MA ones. In my opinion, this must exclude a MA variety.

Viking Guy

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Re: Fruit ID
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2015, 08:41:56 PM »
Ok, I finally stopped trying to squint at my cellphone at this.  I know my Moraceaes.  So I am going to present what I think it is after zooming in on the big screen.

We are right in that we were all wrong.  lol

If you give me 15 minutes, I will also find the variety.  I need to review some of my notes from my travels.

Update:  This fruit is a Brosimum gaudichaudii trécul. Mama-cadela specifically.  It is a small breadnut variety.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 09:23:44 PM by Viking Guy »

FlyingFoxFruits

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Re: Fruit ID
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2015, 11:08:01 PM »
doesn't look like mama cadela...the habitat it grows in is unique, (the cerrado) which is like a savanna...not a primary forest, like the place the fruit in question was discovered.

Mama cadela fruits don't have segments as much...they look smoother (almost how a custard apple does, compared to a sugar apple)

the plant in question is definitely Moraceae...just hard to say which one...



Ok, I finally stopped trying to squint at my cellphone at this.  I know my Moraceaes.  So I am going to present what I think it is after zooming in on the big screen.

We are right in that we were all wrong.  lol

If you give me 15 minutes, I will also find the variety.  I need to review some of my notes from my travels.

Update:  This fruit is a Brosimum gaudichaudii trécul. Mama-cadela specifically.  It is a small breadnut variety.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 11:09:52 PM by FlyingFoxFruits »

Viking Guy

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Re: Fruit ID
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2015, 11:41:19 PM »
Any chance there is a photo of the whole tree?

Adam, look up the bgt variety specifically--view it closely.  Branching, leaf count (9e lats), bark, fruit, size/color/texture, seed shape/count, locality, etc are accurate to the displayed photos of the OP.

Only thing that'd help further clarify would be a full tree shot, but even the branch in one of his photos shows the true 9e lats.  I'm convinced.  :)

I want one!

Haha

Tropicaliste

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Re: Fruit ID
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2015, 10:45:30 AM »
Stuart: Sell your car and buy some from Vitor? Lol

Colombo973

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Re: Fruit ID
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2015, 02:12:28 PM »
Any chance there is a photo of the whole tree?

Adam, look up the bgt variety specifically--view it closely.  Branching, leaf count (9e lats), bark, fruit, size/color/texture, seed shape/count, locality, etc are accurate to the displayed photos of the OP.

Only thing that'd help further clarify would be a full tree shot, but even the branch in one of his photos shows the true 9e lats.  I'm convinced.  :)

I want one!

Haha


Here is a photo of the trunk :



And branchs holding fruits :



I have to agree with Adam, it doesn't look mama cadela. Get a look here : http://www.bananasraras.org/frutasrarasingles/brosimum.htm
Leaves, fruits, seeds are not the same.
Damn, i didn't expected that this fruit will be so hard to identify.

stuartdaly88

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Re: Fruit ID
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2015, 07:35:38 PM »
Stuart: Sell your car and buy some from Vitor? Lol
I just saw them now! and pmed him for a few. With the dollar as high as it is I might just get one seed for my car lol :P
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau

BMc

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Re: Fruit ID
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2015, 08:52:05 PM »
If I just saw the fruit I'd be sure it was Maclura cochinchinensis, but on seeing the images of the tree, I'm not as sure. I'm used to it as a thorny scrambler, but I think the asian forms could also include thornless trees?

Colombo973

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Re: Fruit ID
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2015, 12:39:37 PM »
Hi everybody,

Finally, i 've collected a branch from the tree and i get advice from a botanical expert. We have checked from the IRD herbarium collection in Cayenne and fruit/leaves could come from Helicostylis pedunculata. Probability is near to 90%.
The only thing that disturb me is the fruit size. H. pedunculata should have fruit size up to 1 cm in diameter, and the ones i've collected are more bigger (all were 2 to 4 cm wide).
I managed to get ripe fruits with my shotgun, and i tasted them : They are delicious, hard to describe but pulp is sweet and the very thin skin is slightly acid. There are only 3 to 4 seeds in one fruit so there is a good amount of stuff to eat.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of worms in the fruits, far more than in a guava. :(
I'm really happy to have found this specie.
Many thanks for those who helped for this fruit identification.

joaave

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Re: Fruit ID
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2015, 03:36:25 PM »
Maclura cochinchinensis

 

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