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Author Topic: Moringa oleifera - tips?  (Read 16118 times)

KarenRei

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Moringa oleifera - tips?
« on: June 04, 2012, 06:57:41 AM »
So the first set of seeds from my latest import have sprouted, and unsurprisingly it was Moringa oleifera (most of the others can take months to germinate).  I searched the forum and not a lot of people here seem to be growing it (I guess because it's mainly grown as a vegetable?), so while it's a tropical, if it's out of line here to ask about it, just let me know (I have the same concerns about asking about my olive, lol, since while it's not cold tolerant, it's not a traditional "tropical" fruiting tree).

The questions aren't specifics, just in general.  I've never grown it before and am wondering if there are any potential pitfalls/common hazards I should be aware of (too much moisture, not enough moisture, deficiencies, etc).  They'll be grown indoors under lights, of course.

(On that subject, any tips for the olive, too, would be appreciated; I just got it recently and it already has flower buds).
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fruitlovers

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Re: Moringa oleifera - tips?
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2012, 07:04:11 AM »
With the moringas too much moisture is a problem here. They like to dry out between waterings. They like a lot of sunlight, coming from hot/dry places. Once your plants are established you might like to know that you can duplicate them from large cuttings.
Oscar

KarenRei

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Re: Moringa oleifera - tips?
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2012, 07:08:30 AM »
Lol, well, every last seed sprouted so I have six already - but if lots of friends want some, that's good to know.  Thanks for the tip on water, too.  I've already been keeping my mango on a reduced watering schedule since they're root-rot sensitive; I'll do the same with my moringas.
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Hollywood

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Re: Moringa oleifera - tips?
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2012, 07:31:29 AM »
Oh, I've been looking for M. Oleifera and was also surprised by this forum's lack of posts on it. Good luck and let us know how the recipes turn out.

Katie
Hollywood

Tropicdude

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Re: Moringa oleifera - tips?
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2012, 02:44:55 PM »
Moringa, great tree to have around,  beside all of its nutritional value, its also good as a green manure crop, and also a foliar spray from Moringa leaves is a natural growth stimulant, and has been shown to increase production of fruit trees up to 25%  ( tests done on cashews, and vegetables ) I suspect they may be beneficial on mango trees, but I have not found test done on them yet.

main cultivation tip i can give you it to prune them so they will branch out as much as possible , because their natural tendency is to grow up fast and spindly.  with no pruning the trees are not very attractive and you will get little foliage.

William
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Hollywood

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Re: Moringa oleifera - tips?
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2012, 05:20:14 PM »
If anyone in South Florida sees this and has an extra or some cuttings, I WANT ONE. Contact me. :)
Hollywood

KarenRei

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Re: Moringa oleifera - tips?
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2012, 05:54:28 PM »
@TropicDude: Thanks!  I'll do just that.

@Hollywood: I grew mine from seeds from Tradewinds Fruit, $2.25 for a pack, and the seeds had been sitting around for over two months before I planted them and I still got 100% germination rate in something like 5 days, and a few days later and they're already ~4 inches high with a pretty spread of leaves.  Basically, what I'm saying is, you may want to consider seeds instead of cuttings.  :)
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Hollywood

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Re: Moringa oleifera - tips?
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2012, 09:52:15 PM »
@TropicDude: Thanks!  I'll do just that.

@Hollywood: I grew mine from seeds from Tradewinds Fruit, $2.25 for a pack, and the seeds had been sitting around for over two months before I planted them and I still got 100% germination rate in something like 5 days, and a few days later and they're already ~4 inches high with a pretty spread of leaves.  Basically, what I'm saying is, you may want to consider seeds instead of cuttings.  :)

Done. Thanks for the tip!
Hollywood

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Re: Moringa oleifera - tips?
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2012, 04:38:22 AM »
Moringa, great tree to have around,  beside all of its nutritional value, its also good as a green manure crop, and also a foliar spray from Moringa leaves is a natural growth stimulant, and has been shown to increase production of fruit trees up to 25%  ( tests done on cashews, and vegetables ) I suspect they may be beneficial on mango trees, but I have not found test done on them yet.

main cultivation tip i can give you it to prune them so they will branch out as much as possible , because their natural tendency is to grow up fast and spindly.  with no pruning the trees are not very attractive and you will get little foliage.

Tropicdude, i'd be interested in finding out more about what you say about using moringa as a foliar spray. Do you remember the source of that info? Thanks,
Oscar

Fruitzilla

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Re: Moringa oleifera - tips?
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2012, 05:17:03 PM »

The questions aren't specifics, just in general.  I've never grown it before and am wondering if there are any potential pitfalls/common hazards I should be aware of (too much moisture, not enough moisture, deficiencies, etc).  They'll be grown indoors under lights, of course.


I have several Moringa's and I can add that to make them full you will want to pinch off top growth AND prune the early stems back about half way.  Otherwise, they will be tall and lanky with few branches and leaves.
I would think growing a Moringa in a pot will be quite difficult in that Moringa's put out a deep tap root.  That deep Tap root is what makes them drought tolerant.  I wonder how the plant will fair without it.

behlgarden

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Re: Moringa oleifera - tips?
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2012, 06:01:43 PM »
KarenRei, which Morinda did you seed? I got Moringa oleifera Hybrid Pkm Hybrid, supposedly the best of the breed seeds from Amazon. They didnt sprout last fall, then soil was too cold.

After I saw your post, I got excited and have soaked few seeds in water now, will germinate then indoors and then transplant them outdoors. The slender fruits/veggie sticks are delicious and very nutritious. If folks dont know, Moringa is one heck of a medicinal plant, if you read about it you will absolutely want to get it.

On Olive, try to not water it too much, it likes dry soil conditions. water once and forget for a while.

Jackfruitwhisperer69

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Re: Moringa oleifera - tips?
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2012, 06:23:09 PM »
Hi,

Here's my fav. vid about moringa.
Moringa - The Miracle Tree


Moringa is definitely on my wanted list ;)
Time is like a river.
You cannot touch the same water twice, because the flow that has passed will never pass again.
Enjoy every moment of your life!

KarenRei

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Re: Moringa oleifera - tips?
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2012, 07:21:57 AM »
Behlgarden: Tradewinds didn't label the variety.  I could take pictures, but at this seedling stage, I don't think it'd help much, lol   ;)  Thanks for the olive tip.  :)

Fruitzilla: Thanks for the info about the taproot; I'll be sure to use tall pots wherever possible.  Lots of stores here sell these super-tall, rather narrow pots, which should work well.  Of course I don't want them to get huge, they have to be kept at a manageable size for indoors and I don't need them to be too prolific (I'm not looking to try to establish a market here in Iceland for selling moringa products, lol!).  Ultimately I'll probably only keep one plant, maybe sell the others on bland.is.  Come to think of it, I should probably do that with some of my surplus coffee and dragonfruit plants (I plan to hang onto my spare biriba at least for now, though, lol!)
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Tropicdude

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Re: Moringa oleifera - tips?
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2012, 08:05:10 PM »
Moringa, great tree to have around,  beside all of its nutritional value, its also good as a green manure crop, and also a foliar spray from Moringa leaves is a natural growth stimulant, and has been shown to increase production of fruit trees up to 25%  ( tests done on cashews, and vegetables ) I suspect they may be beneficial on mango trees, but I have not found test done on them yet.

main cultivation tip i can give you it to prune them so they will branch out as much as possible , because their natural tendency is to grow up fast and spindly.  with no pruning the trees are not very attractive and you will get little foliage.

Tropicdude, i'd be interested in finding out more about what you say about using moringa as a foliar spray. Do you remember the source of that info? Thanks,

Sorry Oscar, took so long to reply on this, I never came back to this thread.

I have not been able to find tests done specifically on Mango, and I have been ltrying to learn all I can on phytohomones in mangoes.

The Zeatins in moringa are growth simulators cytokinins group, this is the hormone that depending on its ratio / balance with Auxins and Gibberellins, is what tilts the preference whether you will get more vegetative growth or florescence.

Timing seems to be the key here,  my best guesstimate would be around the same time one would spray KNO3 but I am still looking into this.

I also found out that KN03 is really not necessary as its only the nitrogen that is really needed to start inflorescence in mangoes ( That was confirmed in Mexico ) 

My interest in this is to find a natural organic alternative to potassium nitrate to stimulate and/or increase flowering.  and also to see if I can speed along my mangosteen plants as I was told by an expert that the G.mangostana slowness is due to its strong growth retardants, and he was able to get his seedlings to fruit after 5 years ( using some fancy product from Europe, organic amino acid and hormonal formula ).

I came back to this thread because I am interested in finding seeds for the Moringa hybrid PKM-1 and/or PKM-2 varieties, and was hoping someone knows where to get them in the US?

Echo has them but not listed in their online store, and the only other place I can find them is in India in 1000 seed packs min.

In case anyone is wondering what these are, PKM-1 is a hybrid bred to be used as an annual , it can produce pods in as little as 8 months, and is semi dwarf, and bushy.

PKM-2 is an improved version of the normal Moringa,

both varieties have better production and are supposed to have no bitter taste. with increased lateral growth.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 08:08:49 PM by Tropicdude »
William
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Future

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Re: Moringa oleifera - tips?
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2012, 08:35:16 PM »
I am a huge fan on moringa.  I have the "regular" one and the PKM1.  I concur with extreme cutting and pinching.  This plant, once established, thrives on abuse.  My potted ones have not done well.  In the ground, they can get to 6ft in 6 months.  Cut the main stem as required.  I have one in the front yard that has about a 6 inch trunk after 2 years.  I keep it as part of a hedge (though not a great hedge plant for windy places as it loses leaves easily in high winds.  Does recover quickly though).  We don't have pods yet but we dry the leaves and also make a tincture from them.  I find it very potent.  I got my first flowers after 3 years but they didn't set pods.

There are dozens of uses for this free and it has amazing nutritional content.  Edible leaves, flowers, pods, seeds and even roots (not reccomended though due to alkaloids). 

Note plants grow from cuttings will not be anchored as well due to a lack of tap roots.

I have grown from cuttings after simply pruning.  No special treatment, just stuck a branch in an empty pot.  Weeks later it had leaves.

Tropicdude

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Re: Moringa oleifera - tips?
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2012, 12:17:17 AM »
@future

Yep I am a big fan also, I have some seeds which I plan on planting this weekend, ovallifolia and stenopetala my first trees (oleifolia ) I gave all away, because as you said they don't do well in pots.

Although i have been messing around with moringa for a few years only recently has it become popular here in the DR. after a news report on TV, now folks are selling branches of the tree at street corners.

My interest was in agroforestry and nutrition for the arid regions and poor folks in those areas. 

the trees do grow here I have seen them all over, most people do not know of there benefits, they are usually just used as to make natural fencing.

Another good use is to use in intercroping, now my interest is in the possibility of its use as a foliar spray, 

just blend up some young leaves in a bit of water, set overnight, then strain through a cloth,  dilute with water 30 to 1.   that's it, spray on your veggies and tree.   as I mentioned in last port , i'm trying to figure out best time to spray on fruiting trees, but for young trees I would spray often,  from what I read on tests with some plants once very 2 weeks seems optimum.

I am also thinking that if I had a worm bin that moringa could be an excellent food, I imagine the compost would be super, because of all the nutrients and minerals found in moringa.
William
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Ethan

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Re: Moringa oleifera - tips?
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2012, 04:14:37 AM »
For PKM-1 and regular seeds you might try?

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1735.0

-Ethan

carraig

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Re: Moringa oleifera - tips?
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2012, 04:51:45 AM »
For PKM-1 and regular seeds you might try?

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1735.0

-Ethan


Thanks Ethan!

Moringa was one of our first exotic plants we brought to bear and has remained special to us as a result.  We keep M. oleifera (wild, PKM-I, PKM-II), M. ovalifolia, M. stenopetala, and M. hildebrandtii.

Since the question was about M. oleifera, I will focus on that one.

First, it is important to note the difference between wild Moringa and annual Moringa types.  Names varieties of Moringa are typically annual types that are grown more like papaya.  They have a couple years of productivity and the fields are leveled every 3rd or 4th year.  Annual varieties stay smaller, are far more productive, but also don't live nearly as long.  Annual varieties are also much harder to propagate from cuttings (or we're just not doing it right).

Like Oscar said, Moringa does not like too much water.  None of the species in their wild state do well with heavy, or even moderate watering regimes.  M. oleifera is more tolerant than the other varieties, and the annual types of M. oleifera are more tolerant still.  In fact, we have found that PKM-I and PKM-II Moringa do well regardless of how much water they get.

For potted culture, all Moringa species, if started from seed, can do fine in pots.  The problem is that they naturally want to send out this massive tap root which becomes more sensitive the older the plant gets.  We pinch off just the tip of the tap root when we transplant Moringa seedlings for the first time.  If done correctly, the tap root stops growing and a much better fine-root system develops.  There are always a small percentage that do not recover, and those that do recover have never been successfully transplanted into an in-ground plot.  It seems that when planted in our hard Texas ground they really rely on that tap root.  We grow and fruit our M. oleifera in 3gal pots for the 2 year life cycle before starting over.

While I would like to say we get a lot of pods, the flowers have become the family's favorite part of the plant and the resulting harvest is usually limited as a result.  Fresh flowers, sweet and spicy, are easily the best tasting part of the M. oleifera.  Leaves are great, especially cooked, though not as good as M. stenopetala.  Fresh beans are good from the PKM varieties, but pretty bitter from the wild Moringa.  Cooked bean pods taste about the same from any of them.

Feel free to ask any additional questions.

Regards,
Carraig

luc

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Re: Moringa oleifera - tips?
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2012, 02:25:30 PM »
I have one in the ground for a few years now , not doing well due to too much shade , would transplanting kill the tree ?
Was never successful with cuttings and seeds , probably too much water...I'll never learn....
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carraig

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Re: Moringa oleifera - tips?
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2012, 02:23:10 AM »
I have one in the ground for a few years now , not doing well due to too much shade , would transplanting kill the tree ?
Was never successful with cuttings and seeds , probably too much water...I'll never learn....

Moringa really relies on its taproot.  Recommend starting new ones from seed rather than trying to transplant.  In your climate, the annual varieties would be better and could be grown on a 2-3 year rotation like papaya.

Regards,
-carraig

cyclonenat

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Re: Moringa oleifera - tips?
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2012, 02:32:25 AM »
carraig did you get my pm?

Guanabanus

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Re: Moringa oleifera - tips?
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2012, 09:37:17 PM »
Here in Florida, seeds of two or more species of Moringa are readily mail-orderable from Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization (ECHO), near Fort Myers.
Har

Tropicdude

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Re: Moringa oleifera - tips?
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2012, 03:20:55 PM »
I found some PKM-1 on Ebay from a seller in India.  25 seeds for 5 buck including shipping.  so hopefully these will get here un harmed.    I was just wondering though,  since these are hybrids,  when I re-plant the seeds from them, will they come up true to type or revert back to original form from one of its parents?

I have seen them be called Hybrids, Supergenus strain , and cultivar,  so not sure what the deal is.  I will assume though that they could cross with regular Moringa, and should be kept away from them if one is to save seeds.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 03:24:36 PM by Tropicdude »
William
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Future

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Re: Moringa oleifera - tips?
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2012, 09:25:44 AM »
I ordered from the same source with success.  Yes, plants should be segregated.  The hybrid question, I don't know.  Some call pkm1 a selection, not a hybrid.

nullzero

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Re: Moringa oleifera - tips?
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2012, 12:13:06 PM »
I have a good amount of variation between the seeds;

Moringa#1, Larger elongated leaves


Moringa#2, Smaller rounder leaves


Moringa PKM1
Grow mainly fruits, vegetables, and herbs.

 

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