Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers



Author Topic: Florida Mango trees planted in California  (Read 15274 times)

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4955
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Florida Mango trees planted in California
« on: May 04, 2015, 10:21:35 AM »
Hello everyone, I'm looking for pictures of large Florida grafted/purchased Mango trees that are grown in California. Most of my trees are grafted trees purchased from Florida and they grow slowly. Even when they do grow with some vigor, the new growth is droopy and not strong and erect. I've seen some Florida grafted trees grown by well known and respected members of the CRFG and their grafted trees are dwarf compared to seedlings they grow and later grafted.

I would like to see pictures of large vigorous mango trees on their original rootstock. I'm sure there are some with nice large growing trees but I'm interested to see how many there actually are. If it turns out that very few people in California have large vigorous trees on Florida rootstock, we may want to consider an alternative method of growing Mangos here.

Please feel free to provide any pictures, thoughts, insight or ideas.

I'm thinking that I will be planting a lot more mango seeds directly into the ground and grafting them at the appropriate time. Thanks in advance!

Simon

michsu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 547
    • Hacienda Heights, CA (Southern California, Los Angeles)
    • View Profile
    • Pictures of my trees.. nothing fancy
Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2015, 10:28:19 AM »
This WAS my Coconut Cream before it died.. somehow, I killed it by either putting a stake nearby and hitting a major root or overwatering.. but I water the same every other day.. I think it died after I inserted a big stake to hold up the tree.. this isn't a LARGE tree at all.. well, the tree was basically going to fall over.. none of the other trees do that though.. I have other trees and they just get taller and taller without bending forward..



« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 10:32:45 AM by michsu »

JF

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6305
  • North OC California Zone 10B/America Tropical 13A
    • View Profile
Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2015, 10:58:52 AM »
Simon you've seen Leo's and Eunice's orchard and they were force to use California rootstock for their mango trees. Eunice has her trees on Piņa rootstock because of the lack of vigor in turpentine

behlgarden

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2071
    • CA, Zone 10 B
    • View Profile
    • LED Bulbs for Landscape Lighting
Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2015, 11:31:30 AM »
Simon, my Alphonso came from Florida and its a monster grower. but Alphonso are droopy in growth anyway so its hard to say. I can tell you one thing, Ataulfo root stock is much aggressive than manila, at least per my obesrvation, key is to not buy any plant bigger than 3 gal, as 7Gal and bigger plants tend to get rootbound and don't establish well, specially here in CA.

this is the reason I chose the route of grafting, now all my plants are grafted on 3 gal manila. Ataulfo are hard to find.

barath

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1010
    • Southern California, USDA Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2015, 12:01:46 PM »
Behl, could I ask a maybe dumb question?  When you say that Ataulfo is hard to find, I am a bit surprised because that is the main variety that is sold at the grocery here, whereas "true Manila" is pretty much never sold.  Are you using these grocery store seeds as rootstock, or do you have some other source for these rootstock seeds?

I have been planting lots of Ataulfo seeds as rootstock here, but it's hard for me to compare.  I have noticed that two Florida mangos (Coconut Cream and Lemon Zest) I have in pots are growing slowly in the same environment that a La Verne "manila" is growing like crazy.

By the way, Tim Thompson said that he's using Turpentine rootstock for the current orders of his mangos, and that he has developed a "improved Turpentine" of some sort that he will eventually switch over to.  I didn't get a chance to ask him the details of why.

Thanks!

behlgarden

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2071
    • CA, Zone 10 B
    • View Profile
    • LED Bulbs for Landscape Lighting
Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2015, 12:19:11 PM »
Barath, what I meant hard to find is that not many offer Ataulfo rootstock for sale. I don't have time or patience to grow from seed for grafting. I buy my manila rootstock from Costco when they have a sale, its hard to predict when that happens.

I was fortunate to buy several ataulfo 3-gal rootstock 3 years ago from a nyrsery in North San Diego area, that nursery got sold and they no longer have it.

My one mango that I grafted in Aug last year grew 4' with over 15 branches on Ataulfo rootstock. same variety graft grafted in Sep last year grew only 12" on Manila. difference of course is that manila was in pot in the greenhouse. I will get true comparison this year as both are in the ground now.

barath

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1010
    • Southern California, USDA Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2015, 01:32:09 PM »
Behl, thanks, that makes sense.  I will save all my Ataulfo seeds then!  I have been growing them in a greenhouse and they do great.  I don't have land to grow them direct seeded at the moment, but hope to try someday.

MangoFang

  • Palm Springs, CA, Zone 9B
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1715
  • Palm Springs, CA
    • Riverside, Palm Springs/CA, 92264,9b
    • View Profile
Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2015, 03:39:00 PM »
Yeah, Simon, I've had the same puzzling observation on my diff. Florida-created mangoes -
some grow like crazy - the Alphonso and Valencia Pride and Lemon Zest - while others seems
to crawl - the Rosigold and Coconut Cream and Pina Colada (realizing of course some varieties
grow slower anyway) - but I do wonder just how the CA rootstock (which I think is normally manila -
at least from LaVerne) would do in a comparison test.  Don't have the time or room to do that of
course.....

Thanks for the Tip Behl on Ataulfo as a rootstock.  I'll start planting the seeds I get from now on.....

Garfy

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4955
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2015, 10:15:55 PM »
Yes Leo and Eunice's mango trees are huge and beautiful. Leo has a Kent on Florida rootstock and it is one of his smallest trees considering its been in the ground for many years.

I have many Ataulfo/Manilla/Champaigne seeds planted this year but from my observations last year, I had the best success grafting onto Kent/Haden/Tommy Atkins seedlings, not that they will necessarily grow better.

Mischu, did you let your Coconut Cream hold fruit last year?

Gary, I've noticed the same, Valencia Pride, Keitt, Alphonso and Lemon Zest seem to grow just fine on Florida rootstock but many others aren't thriving on it.

Simon

murahilin

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2996
    • USA Greenacres, Florida Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2015, 06:29:28 AM »
This WAS my Coconut Cream before it died.. somehow, I killed it by either putting a stake nearby and hitting a major root or overwatering.. but I water the same every other day.. I think it died after I inserted a big stake to hold up the tree.. this isn't a LARGE tree at all.. well, the tree was basically going to fall over.. none of the other trees do that though.. I have other trees and they just get taller and taller without bending forward..





It looks like there is damage to the trunk at the base. Is that weed whacker damage?

murahilin

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2996
    • USA Greenacres, Florida Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2015, 06:31:40 AM »
Hello everyone, I'm looking for pictures of large Florida grafted/purchased Mango trees that are grown in California. Most of my trees are grafted trees purchased from Florida and they grow slowly. Even when they do grow with some vigor, the new growth is droopy and not strong and erect. I've seen some Florida grafted trees grown by well known and respected members of the CRFG and their grafted trees are dwarf compared to seedlings they grow and later grafted.

I would like to see pictures of large vigorous mango trees on their original rootstock. I'm sure there are some with nice large growing trees but I'm interested to see how many there actually are. If it turns out that very few people in California have large vigorous trees on Florida rootstock, we may want to consider an alternative method of growing Mangos here.

Please feel free to provide any pictures, thoughts, insight or ideas.

I'm thinking that I will be planting a lot more mango seeds directly into the ground and grafting them at the appropriate time. Thanks in advance!

Simon

You should try multiple rootstocks on one tree! You may get better growth by adding a California seedling as an additional rootstock. Maybe you could plant a few seeds near the Florida grown three gallon and then approach graft them. That may solve your problem.

Samu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 658
    • North Tustin, So. California, Zone 10A
    • View Profile
Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2015, 12:07:44 PM »
You should try multiple rootstocks on one tree! You may get better growth by adding a California seedling as an additional rootstock. Maybe you could plant a few seeds near the Florida grown three gallon and then approach graft them. That may solve your problem.

Yes, I already planted few seeds near my trees. My question is, when you do approach grafting from the new seedling to the tree, you do it at the tree's rootstock trunk below the tree's original graft point, or above it's original graft point?  Or it doesn't  matter?
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 03:46:36 PM by Samu »
Sam

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4955
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2015, 03:41:07 PM »
Hey Sheehan, I've got some seedlings planted next to my Florida grafted mango trees but the wood on the grafted trees is too old and hard. I plan on multiple root stocking the seedlings planted near the base of my grafted trees and then grafting on top of the multiple rootstock.

Simon

rliou

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
    • Cerritos, Los Angeles,CA, sunset zone 22, USDA 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2015, 04:19:53 PM »

My Peach cobbler.  I pugged it upon purchase and it seems to be doing well



Kesar mango.  Grows really nicely.  Put out a lot vegetative growth last year



Sweet tart.  Bought as three gallon from florida.  Not much vegetative growth



My ugly betty.  Also pugged upon purchase and have a very dwarfish growth habbit for me


This is my lemon zest on turpinetine.  Very vigorous grower though it seems chronically thirsty (though i was told lz always have wavy leaves and behave like its has too little water). 1 year in ground and spent a year in the pot


This is my mahachinok.  Pretty vigorous. 2 years in ground. Gave me a few fruits last year




Keitt mango.  Tall and lanky.  Behaves like a dwarf for me in ground


This is my irwin, bought as 7 gal.  Behaves like an ultra dwarf
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 04:52:22 PM by rliou »
Robert

behlgarden

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2071
    • CA, Zone 10 B
    • View Profile
    • LED Bulbs for Landscape Lighting
Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2015, 04:27:00 PM »
thanks Robert, those trees look like missing something. that could be minerals, microbes in soil, etc. may be you need to look to switch your fert. also, overwintering could be another thing to look at. I have a mango tree I got from HD, its grafted on manila that has grown 12" in 3 years. soil mostly stays moist there, gets good sun, I fertilize well, but it just looks like crap with no growth. it did produce few mangoes last year, but rootstock is less than 3/4" it being a 4-yr old. 

rliou

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
    • Cerritos, Los Angeles,CA, sunset zone 22, USDA 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2015, 04:56:21 PM »
It could be.  I tend to have a heavier hand in watering so I may over water a bit.  I usually fertilize with slow release citrus fertilizer once every other month.  maybe I need to get them some foliar spray.  My coconut cream and alphonso (not pictured) are more vigorous trees with the trunk about the size of coke can.  But I am not sure it that's simply because they are in a sunnier location (they are south facing and gets direct sun all afternoon) or simply because they are more vigorous.
Robert

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4955
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2016, 02:06:23 PM »
Anybody have updates on their Mango trees that are purchased from Florida or are known to have come from a nursery out of Florida?

I'm especially interested to hear if you have had trees that have died or have just been sluggish in growth or have extremely droopy growth.

I would also love to hear of success stories of your Florida grafted mango trees. I know there are already a few reports of some varieties, namely the more vigorous varieties like Valencia Pride, Lemon Zest and Alphonso. Thanks,

Simon

raiders36

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 84
    • San Jose, CA
    • View Profile
Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2016, 03:09:58 PM »
I planted 8 mango trees of different varieties 3 year ago. 5 died especially during flowering. Valencia grows like a snail. Nam doc Mai is swallowed up by the passion fruit vine but still alive. Ugly Betty doesn't look too good. Branches blacking and drying but managed to put some new growth at the lower trunk. All came from Toptropical. All their tree are healthy when I got it. I believe the root stock is the problem.

Stan

  • Guest
Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2016, 03:34:41 PM »
My Autalfo/Champagne I grew from seed. It even as a seedling was never protected from frost. I feel pretty good it will last.  One thing- plant a few of them as some seedlings will be much more faster growing. From what I can tell,those seedlings who start with adult like foliage are MUCH better then the usual small leafs that flush larger much later.



bsbullie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8460
    • USA, Boynton Beach, FL 33472, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2016, 03:48:03 PM »
My Autalfo/Champagne I grew from seed. It even as a seedling was never protected from frost. I feel pretty good it will last.  One thing- plant a few of them as some seedlings will be much more faster growing. From what I can tell,those seedlings who start with adult like foliage are MUCH better then the usual small leafs that flush larger much later.



What in the world does this have to do with the thread's topic?
- Rob

shaneatwell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 963
    • California, San Diego, sunset 23
    • View Profile
Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2016, 05:03:05 PM »
I got a NDM#4 and LZ from florida coming on two years ago. NDM died within months. LZ started showing same symptoms a year after the NDM died. I cut it down to within a few inches of the graft, treated with Infuse and it is pushing right now. Have hit it and another seedling mango (probable Haden) that had a black patch on its trunk a couple more times since cutting the LZ. Not terribly optimistic. Put some more seeds and seedlings nearby and some of them are still alive.

Discussed here:
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=19617.msg243000#msg243000
Shane

ClayMango

  • MangoHunter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1355
    • Zone 9B Ca
    • View Profile
Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2016, 07:15:37 PM »
Before I shipped out to VA due the Navy's change of command for my assignment.... My 7 Gallon trees from TT were all Monsters, especially my Edward and NDM after a little under 2 years.....and with heavy frost pruning as well... could have easily been larger.... my 3 gallon trees seemed to grow a lot slower, but most of them were also potted as well.
Thinking about joining a Fruitaholics anonymous support group...Fruit addiction has taken over my life!

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4955
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2016, 07:18:51 PM »
Thanks for the report Clay! Do you know if the current owners kept the trees? It usually takes several years before the trees start to decline and get droopy.

Simon

Tropic_Al

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 42
    • San Diego, CA
    • View Profile
Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2016, 09:14:29 PM »

I got this NDM as a 7 gallon a couple of years ago from Champa nursery, but with a TT tag on it.
It's a pretty vigorous grower, but tends to grow horizontally rather than up. Most of the time I tip prune it, it flushes only one branch; thus, elongating the same branch. It would start to get really heavy, so I end up cutting it back because I fear that it would break.

Allan

Stan

  • Guest
Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2016, 09:51:39 PM »
My Autalfo/Champagne I grew from seed. It even as a seedling was never protected from frost. I feel pretty good it will last.  One thing- plant a few of them as some seedlings will be much more faster growing. From what I can tell,those seedlings who start with adult like foliage are MUCH better then the usual small leafs that flush larger much later.



What in the world does this have to do with the thread's topic?

Well,read close Bullie dude. Barath was wondering about Aultalfo as rootstock. Hence, my post that mine went through TWO winter uprotected is agreeing they would make a good rootstalk if you dont want Aultalfo fruit.  Sabe? I also included my observations that even the variation of the seeds is interesting.
Barath is up here in the bay area where things might be different. Get it now?

 

Copyright © Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers