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Author Topic: Florida Mango trees planted in California  (Read 16549 times)

shaneatwell

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Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #50 on: July 06, 2016, 09:41:38 PM »
I wouldn't do it on a brand new $200 tree, but i will be doing it on my nearly dead LZ if my current approach fails.

I thought of another example. There's a technique they use in Texas of grafting a cold tolerant avocado onto a salt tolerant (but cold intolerant) rootstock and then burying the graft.

Probably good idea not to use too much organic matter, to discourage disease. Don't understand why roots would circle. I could definitely see a tree declining if it turns out it has disease susceptible roots. Still willing to try.
Shane

Guanabanus

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Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #51 on: July 06, 2016, 10:49:33 PM »
One frequently sees fruit trees and shade trees with roots circling the trunk and tightening into it, where people have piled mulch against the trunk. (We sarcastically refer to this practice as "mulch volcanoes.")  When the mulch rots away, the damage is high and dry and very visible.  When roots circle because the plant was buried too deeply, they usually remain out of sight.
Har

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Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #52 on: July 06, 2016, 10:57:00 PM »
If any more trees from Florida die on you all out there, it would be interesting to dig them out, removing a slightly larger hunk of dirt than the size of the pots they came in, and wash out the soil from the roots, to investigate nursery potting up and field transplanting practices.
Har

knlim000

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Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #53 on: July 08, 2016, 02:02:47 PM »
Marklee,
my tom phi kan(3gal) and rosigold (7gal when purchased) all from TTrop last Sept seems to be doing very well.

it puts out a few branches, the fruit got to the size of my big toe and I plugged them all a few days ago per other member's suggestions.  It's in a 3gal pot, and there's this really weird weeds growing on the surface for the last few months, I  don't know if it's a symbiotic relationship to the mango.  I keep on adding fresh compost on top of the weed so that it kinda acts like a buffer to the tree so that it doesn't burn the tree. The roseligold are putting out new flushes too.

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20586.0


Simon, most of the mangos I have from Florida that are in the ground now are very, I mean very slow growers. For example a Rosigold that has been planted for about 4 years has never put out new growth, it flowered for the first time this year. It looks droopy and almost ready to leave this world. For example other Florida trees Neelam, Thom pi Khan, Cac, Fruit Punch, are hardly growing. The only one from Florida that is doing great is Piña Colada, it is putting out plenty of growth. I have resorted to grafting the Florida varieties like everyone else onto locally grown seeds. The most 2 vigorous trees I have are a Corriente seedling from Cal Tropics and a polyembrionic seedling I started from one of Paul Thompson's fruits from his Edgehill property. So it sounds like most of the Florida grown trees either die or fail to thrive here. One person here in San Diego county has many Florida grown trees on his property and every time I see them, they seem to be the same size as the year before, but some do fruit ok.

knlim000

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Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #54 on: July 08, 2016, 02:04:17 PM »
Oh my god. I hope my trees don't do this.


I've killed three mangoes so far from Florida. First one was an Alphonso. Grew quite well but droopy. Died from a fungal disease after a year in ground though. Started to observe sap slowly leaking from the trunk, especially after watering it, then it declined from there.

Second and third tree were Lemon zest (15gal) and Coconut cream (7gal) both planted in ground. Amended soil and mulch. Grew fine for the first six months. Tip pruning them along the way. CC had droopy new growth. LZ very vigorous, but not droopy. Come fall of last year, they halted their growth and their tips started turning brown and dying back. Sap also leaking from trunk or branches. I tried fungicides, thinking it could be fungal disease again. They made it through winter but had to hack back a lot of bigger limbs. Spring of this year both started growing again, no more browning tips. But summer hit and they both fried. I don't think they were fully healthy and ready for the high temps. I think both succumb to mango dieback disease. I first observed it on the LZ, and I think got passed onto the CC via my pruning shears not knowing the other tree was sick to begin with.

Now I'm down to two mango trees. Fruit punch from Florida also (3gal) planted in ground this spring and doing well so far. The other mango tree is the one from Tim Thompson 'Pineapple' mango. That one is growing very very well. Not sure what rootstock it's on but so far it's very healthy. Planning to graft onto it later this fall.

I'm trying not to water them as much as the ones that died. I think over watering them stressed the trees and brought in the fungal disease.

Stan

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Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #55 on: July 08, 2016, 03:08:32 PM »
Yo dude, you need to read closely, DUDE.  Your response has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.  Barath's post was on topic, and he didnt ask anything about overwintering of any type of rootstock in any location.  As I previously posted, your post was torally random and had nothing to do with the topic of THIS thesad.  If you want to discuss growing msngoes outside of the normsl mango growing zone, maybe start your own?  Get it now, dude?

My Autalfo/Champagne I grew from seed. It even as a seedling was never protected from frost. I feel pretty good it will last.  One thing- plant a few of them as some seedlings will be much more faster growing. From what I can tell,those seedlings who start with adult like foliage are MUCH better then the usual small leafs that flush larger much later.



What in the world does this have to do with the thread's topic?

Well,read close Bullie dude. Barath was wondering about Aultalfo as rootstock. Hence, my post that mine went through TWO winter uprotected is agreeing they would make a good rootstalk if you dont want Aultalfo fruit.  Sabe? I also included my observations that even the variation of the seeds is interesting.
Barath is up here in the bay area where things might be different. Get it now?

I get it. You  don't. I explained it clear as a bell.  Barathe said  "I have been using lots of Aultalfo as rootstock"  You can interpret it any way you want. But I say what I want to say and if I feel like adding to the conversation I will "Mr. Mangoes are everywhere in Arizona!"..eh,when was the last time you were in Arizona and did a field study? You know more then people who live there. Like a guy in La Habra who knows more about bay area horticulture then people who live there!

Stan

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Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #56 on: July 08, 2016, 03:50:46 PM »
Yo dude, you need to read closely, DUDE.  Your response has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.  Barath's post was on topic, and he didnt ask anything about overwintering of any type of rootstock in any location.  As I previously posted, your post was torally random and had nothing to do with the topic of THIS thesad.  If you want to discuss growing msngoes outside of the normsl mango growing zone, maybe start your own?  Get it now, dude?

My Autalfo/Champagne I grew from seed. It even as a seedling was never protected from frost. I feel pretty good it will last.  One thing- plant a few of them as some seedlings will be much more faster growing. From what I can tell,those seedlings who start with adult like foliage are MUCH better then the usual small leafs that flush larger much later.



What in the world does this have to do with the thread's topic?

Well,read close Bullie dude. Barath was wondering about Aultalfo as rootstock. Hence, my post that mine went through TWO winter uprotected is agreeing they would make a good rootstalk if you dont want Aultalfo fruit.  Sabe? I also included my observations that even the variation of the seeds is interesting.
Barath is up here in the bay area where things might be different. Get it now?
What is your problem? Simon asked a harmless question and I replied... Sorry if I slightly derailed the thread in answering a question.... No need to be rude and disrespectful.

I dont know why he got upset. Or why he felt free to be rude.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #57 on: July 08, 2016, 04:03:21 PM »
Sapping out from wounds is usually from a bacterial infection or Copper deficiency.  Either way, spray Copper.

Highly recommend a *systemic* bactericide/fungicide like Magnabon (OMRI certified if you're of the ilk) or Phyton 35.  Has saved 2 avocado trees that literally came back from the dead and are pushing lots of new healthy foliage.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #58 on: July 08, 2016, 04:04:57 PM »
What is your problem? Simon asked a harmless question and I replied... Sorry if I slightly derailed the thread in answering a question.... No need to be rude and disrespectful.

Quote
I dont know why he got upset. Or why he felt free to be rude.

Ignore the village troll.

Stan

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Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #59 on: July 08, 2016, 05:18:11 PM »
What is your problem? Simon asked a harmless question and I replied... Sorry if I slightly derailed the thread in answering a question.... No need to be rude and disrespectful.

Quote
I dont know why he got upset. Or why he felt free to be rude.

Ignore the village troll.

Really,I try. I give my experience with Aultalfo to Barath..and a guy who calls himself a bullie feels like he needs to live up to the name.  We all read into a question our answer. It was obvious I was saying that here in the bay area Barach might not find a better rootstalk then The little yellow mangoes.

It was like my idea with whitewash in Arizona on Mangoes. An idea.  Not "I demand and state it is the only way!"..lol.  Some people take gardening too serious.

Baja_Traveler

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Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #60 on: July 08, 2016, 11:18:20 PM »
Simon -

Here is a picture from today of my Tebow I got from Ong Nursery 4-5 years ago. Just in the past week it has been putting out good growth. It's maybe doubled in size since it was planted, so it's a pretty slow grower.  Had two nice large mangos last year, so hopefully I'll get a few more next year.

Kai


Johnny Eat Fruit

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Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #61 on: July 09, 2016, 01:02:50 AM »
I went to Ong Nursery in late 2015 to check out there various trees and noticed all of the mango trees I saw were on Florida root-stock (Turpintine) so it is not surprising your tree is a slow grower. Now would be the perfect time to graft your Tebow onto a manila seedling and replant.

Johnny

simon_grow

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Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #62 on: July 09, 2016, 01:22:46 AM »
Kai,

I see dieback on the original graft and it looks like you may have new sprouts very low on your tree which may be below the graft Union meaning the resulting fruit may not be Tebow. I agree with Johnny and suggest you plant some Lavern Manilla or any mango seeds you have directly into the ground and I can show you how to graft. I can give you some scion wood from some excellent varieties.

Ongs nursery is very nice with a great selection that would be otherwise difficult to find. Quang is a very nice guy and extremely knowledgable about plants. I usually purchase Florida plants from him or Plantogram and use the plants as a source for scions.

Simon

Mark in Texas

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Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #63 on: July 09, 2016, 08:07:49 AM »
Kai,

I see dieback on the original graft and it looks like you may have new sprouts very low on your tree which may be below the graft Union meaning the resulting fruit may not be Tebow.

Simon

I noticed that too, and, is it normal for this variety to have such long internodes? 

simon_grow

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Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #64 on: July 29, 2016, 10:13:13 PM »
Here are some interesting updates on my Florida Turpentine rootstock Lemon Zest trees compared to my Lemon Zest graft onto Manilla rootstock. The two Florida rootstock trees have been in the ground just under two years. The LZ graft on the Manilla rootstock was grafted about 1.5 years ago IIRC. I have the exact dates on my tags but I'm not home at the moment.

Here's the fruit from Florida LZ #1.




Here is the fruit from Florida LZ #2





Here is the fruit from the LZ grafted onto Manilla rootstock, it's still got a long ways to go before its ripe. The scion for this graft came from the two Florida trees so they are genetically the same except for rootstock influences. The LZ graft on Manilla rootstock does have one nubbin that is very small and round like the fruit on the Florida rootstock but it is not showing any cracking or bacterial black spot.






My only explanation is rootstock influence and/or my Manilla rootstock is more established. Others have been able to grow normal shaped and sized LZ fruit on Florida Turpentine rootstock and I'm sure I would eventually get full sized fruit once the tree gets fully established but I decided to pull one of these trees out.
Simon

raimeiken

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Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #65 on: July 30, 2016, 04:43:53 PM »
holy cow what a difference!  thanks for the on going update and experiment on this subject.

fruit4me

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Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #66 on: April 12, 2017, 03:25:10 PM »
Update on my Florida grafted LZ. Got some fruit set.

















simon_grow

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Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #67 on: April 12, 2017, 04:19:11 PM »
Max, your tree looks great. Did you get any fruit set last year? If so, were they normal sized fruit? How long have you had the tree for?

Your tree is really looking good with just minor Powdery Mildew damage on the newer leaves. Your tree is upright and not droopy yet and doesn't appear to have Phomopsis from what I can see. With such lush and dense foliage, I would think your tree will be strong enough to outgrow many pathogens.

What I've noticed is that the larger the tree, the better it can defend itself against attack from various diseases and pathogens.

Please keep us updated with this tree. The trees that seem to perform ok on Florida/Turpentine rootstock are Valencia Pride, Lemon Zest, Alphonso and a few other I can't remember.

Simon

sg128

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Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #68 on: April 12, 2017, 04:45:47 PM »
I have a cotton candy mango which I planted in the ground here earlier this year.  It's from Florida so probably turpentine rootstock. Time will tell how it fares. I'll provide  updates.

simon_grow

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Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #69 on: April 12, 2017, 05:34:32 PM »
The more people that provide updates, the better. Last year, I lost my Carrie on Turpentine rootstock.

Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #70 on: April 12, 2017, 05:44:17 PM »

My Peach cobbler.  I pugged it upon purchase and it seems to be doing well



Kesar mango.  Grows really nicely.  Put out a lot vegetative growth last year



Sweet tart.  Bought as three gallon from florida.  Not much vegetative growth



My ugly betty.  Also pugged upon purchase and have a very dwarfish growth habbit for me


This is my lemon zest on turpinetine.  Very vigorous grower though it seems chronically thirsty (though i was told lz always have wavy leaves and behave like its has too little water). 1 year in ground and spent a year in the pot


This is my mahachinok.  Pretty vigorous. 2 years in ground. Gave me a few fruits last year




Keitt mango.  Tall and lanky.  Behaves like a dwarf for me in ground


This is my irwin, bought as 7 gal.  Behaves like an ultra dwarf


Rliou, how are your trees doing? My Florida trees usually start getting droopy around the third year.

BTW, you can see my Carrie before it died in reply #36 of this thread. The two seedlings I planted next to the Carrie when it was still alive is doing great although in hindsight, I should not have grafted them at such a young age as they will flower and waste energy that could have gone into growth.

Simon

fruit4me

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Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #71 on: April 13, 2017, 12:15:54 AM »
Hi Simon, my LZ  this year will be in it's third year in the ground. First year, it gave me about 6 full size fruits. Second year, I only kept one fruit cause I wanted it to grow more instead. The whole canopy is tied up to give it an upright look. If let loose, it gets pretty droopy. I love the amazing taste of LZ. Seems to perform very well here for me so far.

simon_grow

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Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #72 on: October 14, 2017, 12:28:31 PM »
I've tried amending my soil and I've also planted in holes that weren't amended. My seedlings and Lavern Manilla mango trees are planted in the same soil as the Florida trees and only the florida trees perform poorly.

Here is a Carrie mango on Florida rootstock. It was planted into the ground about two years ago and constantly flowers and fruits with 0-1 veg flush a year. The branches and leaves look horrible, it could be phomopsis slowing it down, not sure.

Anyways, because of its slow progress, I planted several seedlings in the same hole so same soil, same water and same fertilizer. As you can see in the picture, the seedlings have put on two vegetative growth flushes and I believe they will overtake the Carrie in 1-2 years. one of the seedlings is I grafted and the other seedling is grafted with Venus. The. Venus flowered and tried to hold fruit which I removed.

The largest tallest tree is the Carrie but it is much older than the seedlings which were planted last year IIRC

Simon




Here is an update of this little experiment. The Carrie on Florida Turpentine rootstock was the biggest tree and the seedlings were planted much later. First, here is an update of the Carrie:


 Remember that these trees/seeds were planted in the exact same hole so they receive the same water, fertilizer and sunlight. If anything, the seedlings has it worse because they were smaller and unestablished. The seedlings were also partially shaded by the much larger Carrie.

As you can see, the Carrie is dead and the in situ grafted seedling(CAC) is taller than the Carrie when it was in its prime. Notice that the seedling grafted with CAC is growing strong with uprightbranches and there is no signs of disease or drooping. Here is the seedling, now much larger:







Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #73 on: October 14, 2017, 04:12:25 PM »
With careful watch over nutrients and pH of the soil, Florida Turpentine rootstock trees can grow ok with multiple vegetative flushes although there is still cracking of the trunk, gummosis, dieback and droopy branches. The pH of the soil here is slightly lower at around 7(most my yard is 8+Before amendment )and I constantly lower it with sulfur granules. The branching starts at about 4 feet and I e been removing all growth that droops too low. This tree had severe cracking and gummosis and I left it alone without any treatment, I did not cut away the affected areas, and the cracks appear to have healed itself and calloused over with healthy tissue. At the time when the trees cracks were open and bleeding out, it is an easy opening for diseases to set in.

I hope now that it has reached what I consider critical mass, it has enough energy to overcome most of the issues with Florida Turpentine rootstock trees. The main issue I still have with this tree is that it can not form full sized fruit, only golfball sized nubbins. I’m hoping that reaching critical mass this year will enable it to have enough energy to overcome the the Powdery Mildew that heavily affects its blooms and Fruit set.




Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« Reply #74 on: October 14, 2017, 04:32:04 PM »
Here is what some typical branches look like from Florida Turpentine rootstock trees. There is a lot of dry cracked bark and odd lignification of even smaller branches. Once partially lignified, these branches do not continue to expand proportional to the rest of the tree. These branches and trunk are from Florida Turpentine rootstock trees that were planted approximately 7 years ago.












Simon

 

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