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Author Topic: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread  (Read 11031 times)

googer

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Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« Reply #75 on: January 24, 2016, 10:04:35 PM »
Yes. These only got 5 weeks of stratification at 35 F. As this experiment goes on, I hope to determine whether the shorter stratification period has a negative impact on germination rate.

googer

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Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« Reply #76 on: January 30, 2016, 09:09:33 PM »
So far, I have an 80% germination rate with my first batch of Passiflora incarnata seeds, which I suspect will increase to 90 shortly. I'm pretty pleased with those numbers. I have relocated the first seedling to its own paper cup on the windowsill. With the spotty sunlight and short daylight hours, it is getting very leggy on the windowsill and I'm concerned that the rest of the seedlings will do the same. I'm considering investing in a growing lamp to tide the seedlings over until the weather is consistently warm.

Anyone have any good suggestions for a low-cost growing lamp to get seeds started out?

mushroombob

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Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« Reply #77 on: February 01, 2016, 09:45:43 AM »
A regular fluorescent shop light will work well for seedlings . You just need to keep the plants as close to the bulbs as you can. I use one for growing seedlings with good results. Just rig up an easy way to move the lights or the plants.

Good luck and keep up the good work

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Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« Reply #78 on: February 01, 2016, 10:32:38 AM »
Googs,

This first batch of yours - were they all subjected to the high heat?

Here are my seedlings that were stratified 3 months+ and then ended up getting "cooked" with soil temps around 90-95 for maybe a day (?)
5 out of 6. The 6th one actually did sprout but it never really emerged. maybe it got too buried, or was just an abortion, not sure.


I have 12 other seeds in another tray that are about a week old, maybe a little more. They are being kept at mid 70's temperature, and so far there is no sign of life at all.
It's hard to be patient but I know sildanani said hers took a month to sprout. I think this is fairly common at these temps. Very interesting to me that the high temps were not lethal to these seeds and instead induced very fast germination.

Based on how my seedlings are doing, so far there seems to be no ill effect to the embryo, etc at those high temps.

I have my seedlings under a Sun Blaze 44 fixture - a 4-foot, 4-bulb (fluorescent T5). Pretty high-powered for seed starting (which is all I use it for). You can get smaller versions of this fixture and also little T5 "strips" that are self-enclosed single bulbs that are just plug-and-go. I started with one of those last year. Sunlight Supply is the maker of those and the Sun Blaze.
I would advise you check the heat output of anything you get before putting plants too close to it. I had always read, like mushroombob said, that fluorescent fixtures can (and should) get really close to plants. But this Sun Blaze 44 puts out a lot of heat. I have it about a foot above my seedlings but due to the light output of these T5 bulbs, it's plenty close.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2016, 10:40:23 AM by Triloba Tracker »
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googer

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Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« Reply #79 on: February 02, 2016, 01:28:48 AM »
A regular fluorescent shop light will work well for seedlings . You just need to keep the plants as close to the bulbs as you can. I use one for growing seedlings with good results. Just rig up an easy way to move the lights or the plants.

Good luck and keep up the good work

Thanks. I'll just get a cheap desk lamp with a 100 w fluorescent and aim it right down on them. The sunlight doesn't seem to be cutting it. The angle of the sun and the placement a building to the south limits the amount of sunlight the seedlings can get at this time of the year.

Googs,

This first batch of yours - were they all subjected to the high heat?

I have 12 other seeds in another tray that are about a week old, maybe a little more. They are being kept at mid 70's temperature, and so far there is no sign of life at all.
It's hard to be patient but I know sildanani said hers took a month to sprout. I think this is fairly common at these temps. Very interesting to me that the high temps were not lethal to these seeds and instead induced very fast germination.

Those are some healthy looking seedlings, your light fixture seems to be working well for them. Yes. My first batch was all subjected to temperatures probably in the mid to upper 90s (I didn't even bother to use the thermometer - I could just feel that they were way too hot). Maybe not, though, maybe a short burst of really high temps do speed up germination.

If the other batch was planted a week ago, then that's pretty typical to not see any sprouting. If you dug around, you'd probably find most of them have germinated and are spreading roots. I've noticed P. incarnata lays down a relatively large taproot and I that seems to be where most of the initial growth goes. Don't be discouraged. Look for the first sprouts within a week. Mine have been sprouting around 2 weeks after sowing - not sure why sildanani's took so long to sprout. If nothing by then, you might try poking around in the soil to see what's up - or down, rather.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 01:32:56 AM by googer »

Triloba Tracker

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Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« Reply #80 on: February 11, 2016, 08:50:40 PM »
Well, all of my seeds have sprouted at this point. There was one seed that I think got planted too deeply and did sprout but I sacrificed it by exhuming it :)
My oldest sprouts now have 2-3 true leaves. I up-potted them on Monday and all had good root systems. I've never up-potted seedlings specifically- I've planted transplants into the ground or pot but never anything this young. I hope I wasn't too tough with them. I did loosen the root mass and tried to kind of undo any circling roots.
I will say they seem to be a tiny bit shocked, as they have seemed to pause in their growth somewhat. The newest leaves that were forming quickly before have not grown much since. However, I do think I see the beginnings of "secondary" leaves - tiny growth on the branches of the first true leaves.

I probably should've repotted sooner as there was son minor root circling. Overall however my expectations have been exceeded.

Seems like all you have to do is stratify these (I did 3+ months in the fridge) and germinate in a warm place (I would say 80-85 Fahrenheit for fast germination). Nothing mysterious or complicated after all.
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googer

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Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« Reply #81 on: February 12, 2016, 05:43:53 PM »
Update on my maypops, as well as a correction.

It turned out that my germination rate was substantially lower than I anticipated. When I reported that the germination rate was 80%, I was apparently seeing my second wave of non-baked seedlings coming up which had been mixed with my "baked" seeds. In hindsight, mixing two treatment groups was a very unscientific thing to do, but I really did not expect any of that first batch to ever germinate so I didn't see the harm in putting the new batch in the same soil. Of the total 20 seeds I attempted, only 10 sprouted, resulting in a 50% germination rate. Soaking the seeds didn't seem to have any discernible effect on germination. And high temperatures are obviously tolerated. I'd agree that 80-85 F is an ideal germination temperature.

The main difference between my seeds and Triloba Tracker's are the stratification times. Triloba's seeds stratified for three months whereas mine stratified for only five weeks. The obvious conclusion seems to be that stratification is a bigger deal than I ever anticipated. I was under the impression that Passiflora incarnata didn't really need the long stratification period, but it would seem I've been mistaken. It is worth noting that these seeds were collected from wild specimens in southern Illinois - just about as far north as one can find P. incanata in their native range. Seeds from that area might be evolutionarily inclined to need stratification more than from a specimen from Alabama or Texas . For maximum germination, I would suggest 90 days of cold and moist stratification. 35-40 days is probably the bare minimum for a stratification period.

Even so, 10 plants was more than plenty for me and I gave three of them away to a friend. The ones that have sprouted are coming along very nicely. Got a good fluorescent lamp for them and future seedlings (hoping to use it for some pawpaw and cherimoya seedlings before the month is out). Using the lamp for 12 hours has really sped up their growth, all the cotyledons are nice and green and the older seedlings have put out 1-2 true leaves out. Looking forward to warm weather to plant them outside.

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Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« Reply #82 on: February 13, 2016, 11:11:35 AM »
Thanks for the summary, Googer!
Excellent observations.
I plan to give away a few of my seedlings too. honestly I'm not sure what I'm going to do with all of them. I have a 32-foot "fence" trellis I recently built, using cattle panels and cedar posts. I have 4 maypops planted along this already, and was going to plant a couple\few more there. (Side note - not sure about the spacing. The ones planted now are probably 12 inches apart.)

I may put some in landscaped areas near my house, but i'm a little worried about the vines taking over the place. I wouldn't mind being surrounded by them, but it might not look good in these slightly manicured areas. I have visions of being the "maypop man" with a property overrun with them, since it is the official wildflower of Tennessee after all.

I'm also really interested to see what color the flowers are on these seedlings. I think I mentioned earlier that these are from mature fruit that was set on a white maypop vine I purchased from Logee's. The only other incarnatas around were all wild type. I admit I don't have much understanding of the specifics of plant genetics. (Speaking of which, anyone know of any good primer on the subject?) I would think the chances of these being purely white-flowered are low....?
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Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« Reply #83 on: March 24, 2016, 07:18:54 PM »
Ok wow.....is this what I think it is?

I was poking-around my garden and happened to notice something emerging from the base of a maypop I planted last November.



This is my first spring where I've had a maypop overwinter. The white vegetable-sprout-looking stem gives me some doubt, but otherwise I would be very inclined to say this was a shoot from the maypop. There's another shoot coming up in the back of the picture.

Maypops are, after all, supposed to pop-up in May, one of the last perennials to come alive. Does it make sense for it to be growing in March? The other 3 plantings do not have any above-ground growth yet. But this one was the most mature.

Any experienced folks out there (TriangleJohn?) who can comment?


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fyliu

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Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« Reply #84 on: March 24, 2016, 09:48:17 PM »
Could be. They come up when the weather is warm enough here. The stems come from pretty deep underground, like 6-10 inches. I know this having dug up plants to give away. They will grow more shoots there later.

They can pop up several feet away.

googer

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Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« Reply #85 on: March 24, 2016, 09:54:50 PM »
The leaf shape seems consistent with the trident-shape maypop leaves have.

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Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« Reply #86 on: March 24, 2016, 10:12:55 PM »
The leaf shape seems consistent with the trident-shape maypop leaves have.

I know, right?!?!

Could be. They come up when the weather is warm enough here. The stems come from pretty deep underground, like 6-10 inches. I know this having dug up plants to give away. They will grow more shoots there later.

They can pop up several feet away.

fyliu - does the white shoot color seem normal to you?
Yeah, we've had an unusually warm early spring - i can't even remember the last frost, and we've had I think 2 days in the 80's and several in the 70's. Plus, this is planted in an area I sheet-mulched in November, so perhaps the decomposition is generating some extra heat. Time will tell - this is quite a surprise!
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fyliu

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Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« Reply #87 on: March 25, 2016, 12:02:29 AM »
Yeah, the underground portion is that color.

I found out that I got my original seeds from trade wind fruits. I kept thinking it was Horizon Herbs (strictly medicinals).

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Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« Reply #88 on: April 01, 2016, 10:32:32 AM »
Follow-up: the picture I posted of shoot growth is definitely the maypop. 2 other shoots are coming up too. I hope it's not a bad sign that my other 3 over-wintered plantings have not broken ground yet.

My indoor seedlings are going nuts....starting to form flower buds. I suspect I will have open blooms in maybe 2 weeks.
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Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« Reply #89 on: April 18, 2016, 08:43:19 AM »
My seedlings bloomed yesterday - I was expecting one flower to open but instead I got 3.

It was sort of like roulette - I didn't know what the flowers would look like since they came from my 'Alba' (white) vine's fruit but were pollinated by a purple-flowered variety. I figure somewhere in the genetics at least some offspring would be white, but what I got appears to be a blend of purple and white. Very pretty in my opinion!
I have already cross pollinated these 3 vines with each other, so I presume that F2 generation would have a greater chance of producing solid-white flowers.

I hope letting these flower so soon won't be detrimental to their overall vigor this year. I am FINALLY going to plant them out today.




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Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« Reply #90 on: April 20, 2016, 10:24:52 PM »
Any thoughts on whether I should cut the flowers (spent ones and forming ones) on these vines?
They are only 3 months old and some have already set (and I pollinated) 2 flowers.
Vegetative growth seems to have drastically slowed. Now that they're in the ground, however, I'm not sure what they'll do. Not sure they'd even hold fruit at this age anyway.
The goal for these particular vines is to cover a fence and flower as much as possible. Probably a tall order for their first year (?)
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Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« Reply #91 on: April 22, 2016, 08:35:27 AM »
Any thoughts on whether I should cut the flowers (spent ones and forming ones) on these vines?
They are only 3 months old and some have already set (and I pollinated) 2 flowers.
Vegetative growth seems to have drastically slowed. Now that they're in the ground, however, I'm not sure what they'll do. Not sure they'd even hold fruit at this age anyway.
The goal for these particular vines is to cover a fence and flower as much as possible. Probably a tall order for their first year (?)

Impatient as I am, I made the hard call to cut all flowers off the vines. We'll see how they respond....
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googer

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Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« Reply #92 on: April 22, 2016, 01:48:29 PM »
Crazy that you got flowers so early. Mine show no sign of producing buds yet, but that could change when I put them in the ground at long last this weekend. Flowering and fruiting is extremely energy-intensive on a plant, so if you're trying to get a large, healthy plant that can cover a fence, then you've made the right call in pruning flowers.

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Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« Reply #93 on: April 22, 2016, 03:11:19 PM »
Crazy that you got flowers so early. Mine show no sign of producing buds yet, but that could change when I put them in the ground at long last this weekend. Flowering and fruiting is extremely energy-intensive on a plant, so if you're trying to get a large, healthy plant that can cover a fence, then you've made the right call in pruning flowers.

Yeah at first I thought this was because they were very happy, but now I'm starting to wonder if it was a stress response instead. I am very much still learning just the basics of growing things, hence the confusion.
They were fairly but not ridiculously root-bound. I think light and nutrition were good, so if it was indeed stress-induced flowering, the root issue is my suspected culprit.
I guess I have learned that I need more up-potting happening if I am going to grow them this vigorously (i.e. fish emulsion and presumably strong lighting) indoors.....My tomatoes and peppers also started flowering indoors.
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coyote

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Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« Reply #94 on: May 09, 2016, 08:59:45 AM »


Just planted some maypop seedlings in 4b, should be interesting if the summer is long enough for them to fruit and if the winter does or doesnt kill them.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 09:28:09 AM by coyote »

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Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« Reply #95 on: May 09, 2016, 11:39:40 AM »


Just planted some maypop seedlings in 4b, should be interesting if the summer is long enough for them to fruit and if the winter does or doesnt kill them.


Awesome! I think you've accurately described the challenges.
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Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« Reply #96 on: June 08, 2016, 03:13:10 PM »
Well, things are in full swing here with my Maypops. I've had probably 6 or so blooms across all my vines (not counting the seedlings that flowered early due to stress, I believe).
I have one fruit set on my oldest vine, which overwintered last year. All other vines are seedlings except for the "Iridescence" vine I ordered from Brushwood.

I wanted to post about a very annoying Maypop pest that's driving me a little nuts.

I will try to post a picture soon, but they are small (1/8 inch), oblong shaped, golden/tan colored beetles with black legs and antennae. I have yet to identify them. They sit almost exclusively on the undersides of leaves and eat small holes in them. If you get too close to the bug or shake the leaf, they will hop off like a flea.
They can be ambushed and squished by hand with about a 75% success rate. But their relatives are always back for more later.
I spoke to another passiflora grower here in Tennessee and he has them too. They don't totally defoliate the vines, they just make for ugly leaves.
I have found them in flowers too, so not sure if they can potentially damage fruit. (I have also found holes bored in flower buds, but not sure who the culprit is).

My point in posting this is to see if anyone has any ideas about: 1) what these are; and 2) how to get rid of them "organically"

I have tried cayenne pepper, insecticidal soap, and a hot pepper spray with no apparent results.
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googer

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Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« Reply #97 on: June 08, 2016, 09:16:25 PM »
My transplanted plants have grown very little since I last checked them about a month ago. I suspect these plants may be setting down a large root system rather than growing above ground.

The vines at the property where I collected my seeds from are growing rapidly. I counted perhaps 6-7 individual plants with numerous flower buds; good news for anyone interested in more of these seeds.

As for your beetle, my best guess would probably be a soldier beetle species (Chauliognathus spp.) As for organic remedies, a trick I use to ward off Japanese Beetles is to collect several of the insects, grind them into a gritty pulp with a stone or brick, and then smear their remains on and around the foliage of the plants that they were eating off of. It seemed fairly effective for that particular species at least. Many beetles have very keen senses of "smell" and are able to detect minute quantities of pheromones from their own species. Allowing these beetles to get a whiff of their dead brothers and sisters might make them think twice about making a meal of your maypops.

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Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« Reply #98 on: June 09, 2016, 09:58:04 PM »
Goog - yeah I read some reference to grinding up bugs on some website while researching some other issue (oh - i think maybe it was mashing up slugs as a deterrent to their kin)....guy said it didn't work.
I may try your idea on these arthropods, though!

For the moment it's possible that run-of-the-mill insecticidal soap may be working as a preventative. So far so good, or could be some other coincidental factor.

Here is a shot of the first bloom on my Iridescence vine. Beautiful deep purple! interesting cleft stigmas!



I hand-pollinated it with stuff from a different vine. We'll see...so far all of my vines have dropped their first 1-2 flowers even with pollination. I suspect this may be normal.
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Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« Reply #99 on: July 19, 2016, 04:00:01 PM »
My first fruit dropped yesterday.
A good-sized one, 7 inch circumference (2.22 inch diameter).

So now my new mission is to understand how long I should let it ripen for optimal flavor.
In the past I've waited a few days until it's pretty wrinkly like an edulis.
But it's quite fragrant already - I'm tempted to try it now.

Anyone have any solid experience as to when to crack into these suckers?
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