Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers



Author Topic: Considering replacing Angie mango  (Read 18022 times)

gunnar429

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3320
  • Nothing like fruit from your own yard!
    • West Park, FL 33023, Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Considering replacing Angie mango
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2015, 03:43:46 PM »
Another of the better formed mangos off my Angie tree ripened and I tried it today - thumbs down still.

I now have a solid tasting plan to pursue this season - thanks all for giving me such great input! I'll seek them out Maha Chanok, Honey Kiss & Venus for tasting. Other than taste, any other comparisons of the tree growth habits or disease tolerance that you think are significantly different between the three?

Honey Kiss is the most compact grower and very good production.  It is late season, which is also good.  Venus seems to have a good structure and not real vigorous, while it is tough to tell as the variety is not that old, Venus looks to have the same or similar growth habit as the Mahachanok.  Venus does seem to set fruit young and looks to be a good producer, primarily late season.  Mahachanok, also a good producer, can have an extended season, ranging from mid-June into August.  All three seem to have very good disease resistance.

In short, get all 3!! ;)
~Jeff

"Say you just can't live that negative way, if you know what I mean. Make way for the positive day." - Positive Vibration

sunworshiper

  • Oviedo, FL (9b)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 458
    • View Profile
Re: Considering replacing Angie mango
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2015, 05:44:15 PM »
Thanks Rob - that's a very succinct summary of the non-flavor characteristics of the trees!

Gunnar - would love to get all three, but  my landscape is in a state of one in means one out currently=) However, you do bring me to my next question. Anyone care to enlighten me on topworking? What are the pros/cons of yanking out a tree and replacing it with a different one vs. using the root system of the existing Angie tree to graft a variety I like better onto it? I suppose then I do have the option of creating a cocktail tree and squeezing in more than one variety. In particular, anyone got a graphic showing the preferred locations for doing that? I could imagine taking a tree back to the main trunk and grafting on to there, or cutting back to scaffolds and grafting to each scaffold. I suppose my primary concern about the second approach would be ending up with a tree that is too tall to frost protect, or one where a freeze might knock the tree back below the graft point. Thoughts?

cbss_daviefl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 989
    • USA, Southwest Ranches,FL 33331, 10B
    • View Profile
    • bfgtropicals.com
Re: Considering replacing Angie mango
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2015, 08:37:30 PM »
Not everyone has the same tastes and I totally respect your opinion that angie is not the mango for your yard. 

I just picked the last angie from my tree.  I will let the picture do the talking!



To others that have planted an angie tree without tasting and are now having doubts or your tree has produced its first fruits this year which disappointed, I think angie is top tier and I recommend giving it a chance to prove itself.
Brandon

Sleepdoc

  • Davie, Florida Zone 10b
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 782
    • View Profile
Re: Considering replacing Angie mango
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2015, 08:54:42 PM »
My Angie's tend to be quite clean and disease free.  I also think they are very tasty.  That being said, they do have a certain flavor that some do not appreciate.  If you don't like it, definitely replace it.  Better yet, top work it :)

Cookie Monster

  • Broward, FL Zone 10b
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4669
  • Eye like mangoes
    • Tamarac, FL, 33321, 10B
    • View Profile
Re: Considering replacing Angie mango
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2015, 10:19:43 PM »
I have 2 angies planted out, and they aren't going anywhere :-).
Jeff  :-)

gunnar429

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3320
  • Nothing like fruit from your own yard!
    • West Park, FL 33023, Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Considering replacing Angie mango
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2015, 02:56:54 AM »
Thanks Rob - that's a very succinct summary of the non-flavor characteristics of the trees!

Gunnar - would love to get all three, but  my landscape is in a state of one in means one out currently=) However, you do bring me to my next question. Anyone care to enlighten me on topworking? What are the pros/cons of yanking out a tree and replacing it with a different one vs. using the root system of the existing Angie tree to graft a variety I like better onto it? I suppose then I do have the option of creating a cocktail tree and squeezing in more than one variety. In particular, anyone got a graphic showing the preferred locations for doing that? I could imagine taking a tree back to the main trunk and grafting on to there, or cutting back to scaffolds and grafting to each scaffold. I suppose my primary concern about the second approach would be ending up with a tree that is too tall to frost protect, or one where a freeze might knock the tree back below the graft point. Thoughts?

As you sort of already eluded to, the top-working idea, while a bit more complicated, is more efficient in the long run (provided you get the scions to take) because you can use the root system that is already getting established.  Plus, as you said, it allows you the freedom to have a few varieties together on one tree.  As I understand it, a good method is to cut the pug the tree, and graft onto the waterpouts (green shoots).  You can graft scions onto any part of the tree you wish, so it's up to you to use your best judgment...one consideration is the higher up the grafts are, the more likely you are to lose that variety if the limb snaps in high winds.   

I am planning on trying this soon, but I have no experience with this as of yet.
~Jeff

"Say you just can't live that negative way, if you know what I mean. Make way for the positive day." - Positive Vibration

sunworshiper

  • Oviedo, FL (9b)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 458
    • View Profile
Re: Considering replacing Angie mango
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2015, 06:02:21 PM »
cbss - that's a very nice looking fruit! Wish mine looked like that. I posted an update on flavor in the http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16319.0 thread. Tried to post a pic, but without success. Suffice it to say, mine look nothing like yours. What kind of soil is your tree planted in? In the other thread, we're wondering if they hate sugar sand of central FL - perhaps optimized for Miami's soil conditions? I suspect that my tree is producing off flavored fruits for some reason. Has the same kerosene like flavor I've only experienced in a purchased Jean Ellen fruit previously.

gunnar - thanks for the comments on topworking. I watched some videos on it yesterday, and it seems within my ability level to give it a go. I've done some grafting on other plant species before with reasonable success. More interestingly, I had expected that it would need to be done in spring, but from searching other forum posts, it sounds like giving it a pugging right after fruit harvest and grafting to the watersprouts has a good chance of success. That would be ideal - I'll know after I've harvested all the fruit if I'm willing to give it any further time to improve. If I decide it isn't a keeper (which is looking strongly likely) then I can try my hand at topworking. If I fail, then I can plant a new tree in spring, which is when I would plant anyhow if I decide to wholesale replace, since in my marginal climate an early spring planting works out best for new trees. But if I succeed, I could have a good sized tree by the end of next summer rather than a new tree that has just gotten its root system established. Doesn't seem to be a downside to trying. The only one I can think of - does the rootstock in any way impact the flavor profile or disease tolerance of the scion? Wouldn't want the off flavor I hate to be transmitted into the new variety, or for the new variety to be incapable of producing clean fruit. I expect that the flavor would not be impacted, since that is counter to the purpose of grafting good flavors onto a different rootstock, but I don't know about disease tolerance aspects. Usually rootstocks in other tree types I've got experience with are selected specifically for features such as disease resistance. What happens when there is a middleman (e.g. Angie) between the original rootstock & the new variety in regard to flavor & disease resistance?




cbss_daviefl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 989
    • USA, Southwest Ranches,FL 33331, 10B
    • View Profile
    • bfgtropicals.com
Re: Considering replacing Angie mango
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2015, 07:12:21 PM »
I have three distinct soils in my yard.  My mangos are planted in muck soil next to a canal, with high organic content and moisture retention.  Mostly, my mangos do not color up well and look pretty ugly.  Luckily, the flavor of the mangos I have grown are not diminished by their appearance and seems to be equal to fruits I have tasted, some of which were grown in the other soils and locations of South Florida.  Most of my angies were severely beaten with the ugly stick.  The picture above was the best of the lot but it will not get much more color even though it was soft on the tree before picking.
Brandon

BENDERSGROVE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1447
  • BENDER'S TROPICAL GROVE
    • USA, Davie, FL 33331, Zone 10b
    • View Profile
    • BENDERSGROVE
Re: Considering replacing Angie mango
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2015, 07:27:50 PM »
Well I will put my 2 cents in. Good thing there are so many varieties of mangoes. There is one for every taste and then some. I am a believer in grow what you like and don't depend on opinions of others as to how good any fruit is or isn't. Try as many different varieties as you can and plant what you like. As far as Angie goes, I rarely get to sell any because I have customers that pre buy them every year. I personally have had no issues as taste or production.

sunworshiper

  • Oviedo, FL (9b)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 458
    • View Profile
Re: Considering replacing Angie mango
« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2015, 08:28:27 PM »
cbss - thanks for the info on your growing conditions. Wish I lived closer to south Florida so I could compare the flavor of my Angie mangos to someone else's, to figure out if I dislike them generally, or if my tree is producing unrepresentative fruit for some reason.

Bendersgrove - I agree tasting first is best - so subjective! Not being close enough to South FL to taste as many as I'd like, I took a risk on the trees I planted. Of 4 mangos planted, I like 3, so I'm happy with that hit/miss ratio. So one didn't work out, no big deal, part of what makes gardening an adventure:)

mangomandan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1106
  • When a man is tired of mangos, he is tired of life
    • USA, Lake Worth, Florida, 33461, 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Considering replacing Angie mango
« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2015, 08:42:49 AM »
I have three distinct soils in my yard. My mangos are planted in muck soil next to a canal, with high organic content and moisture retention.  Mostly, my mangos do not color up well and look pretty ugly.  Luckily, the flavor of the mangos I have grown are not diminished by their appearance and seems to be equal to fruits I have tasted, some of which were grown in the other soils and locations of South Florida.  Most of my angies were severely beaten with the ugly stick.  The picture above was the best of the lot but it will not get much more color even though it was soft on the tree before picking.

The description of Angie on the Fairchild site mentions that they do not like excessive nitrogen or water.  Soil with high organics and moisture could work against that, perhaps.

jc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 539
    • Treasure Coast, Florida, 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Considering replacing Angie mango
« Reply #36 on: July 10, 2015, 11:23:26 AM »
Tasted even better than it looked.

Later season Angie



JC

sunworshiper

  • Oviedo, FL (9b)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 458
    • View Profile
Re: Considering replacing Angie mango
« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2015, 10:12:50 AM »
Wow - wish my Angie's looked like yours jc!

Mangomandan, I had forgotten about that comment about water supply in the description.  So what happens to mangos that get too much water? too much nitrogen should not be an issue - haven't given any in ferts, and soil is low in organic matter. However, the tree does receive regular irrigation, irrigation doesn't seem to be bothering my other mango trees it I wonder if this variety is just sensitive to extra water? Would that cause bad flavor? I always thought that too much water might wash out the flavor, not produce a strong unpleasant flavor.

mangomandan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1106
  • When a man is tired of mangos, he is tired of life
    • USA, Lake Worth, Florida, 33461, 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Considering replacing Angie mango
« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2015, 10:22:30 AM »
Sorry, Sunworshiper. I remembered the description from the Fairchild web site, but I never heard Dr. Campbell or anyone else go into the whys or wherefores.

It's a good possibility that your Angie fruits will taste better in future seasons. The last one I bought from a beloved vendor was very good, far better than the sad little ones on my own tree.
That said, my Angie tree is going away today, donated to a good cause. I'm planting a Venus in that spot.

sunworshiper

  • Oviedo, FL (9b)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 458
    • View Profile
Re: Considering replacing Angie mango
« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2015, 10:36:40 AM »
Mangomandan - thanks for sharing your experience! I'm going to let my tree finish its crop, but if I don't get one good fruit out of the around 25 fruit it held this year, I'm going to select a replacement. This is its second year producing, and last years 4 fruit were bigger, and less mottled looking, but had the same off flavor. I was willing to chalk that up to first year fruiting, but I'm not willing to give it another full season on the off chance the fruit would be significantly different.


jc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 539
    • Treasure Coast, Florida, 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Considering replacing Angie mango
« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2015, 03:20:13 PM »
Remember, this hobby is a marathon not a sprint...
JC

PurpleAlligator

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 259
    • USA, Miami, FL, 33187, 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Considering replacing Angie mango
« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2015, 07:19:20 PM »
Sorry, Sunworshiper. I remembered the description from the Fairchild web site, but I never heard Dr. Campbell or anyone else go into the whys or wherefores.

It's a good possibility that your Angie fruits will taste better in future seasons. The last one I bought from a beloved vendor was very good, far better than the sad little ones on my own tree.
That said, my Angie tree is going away today, donated to a good cause. I'm planting a Venus in that spot.

I know it was one of the selected tons for his new home orchard.  Among reasons was it can be kept compact and it's early so fruit will be cleaner than late season 

sunworshiper

  • Oviedo, FL (9b)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 458
    • View Profile
Re: Considering replacing Angie mango
« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2015, 08:13:15 AM »
It is indeed a marathon:) jc, do your tree set well without spraying? Mine sets zero fruit without spraying, which is another of the reasons it is on the bubble. I don't enjoy the task of spraying...


Sleepdoc

  • Davie, Florida Zone 10b
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 782
    • View Profile
Re: Considering replacing Angie mango
« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2015, 08:32:55 AM »




This mornings lineup.  The entire top row are Angie's.  I sprayed plant doctor on all the trees in my yard a couple of times during flowering, but I don't think that made too much of a difference. 

Bottom row for comparison, left to right, coconut cream, lemon zest, ice cream, Mallika.



zands

  • wango_tango_mango_zango
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4118
    • Zone 10b, Florida, USA, 33321
    • View Profile
Re: Considering replacing Angie mango
« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2015, 08:55:01 AM »
It is indeed a marathon:) jc, do your tree set well without spraying? Mine sets zero fruit without spraying, which is another of the reasons it is on the bubble. I don't enjoy the task of spraying...

The last 50% of this years crop should be better and much more representative plus... Think how the remaining fruits will benefit from more sunshine, higher temps and more time for the tree to put resources into them.
Even if it is the last 30% of your Angie fruits, you will get good fruits this year. You will know in 3-6 weeks and you can post results.

My take is your tree is in a borderline production year. Despite the 25 fruits, it is not yet in comfortable fruiting mode. Next year should be better and if it were my tree I would give it next year's fruiting to see return on investment. IOW no chopping in 2015.

Don't go by what you have seen w your other mango trees which moved smoothly (effortlessly?) into fruiting. With my trees some did and some did not.

bsbullie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8749
    • USA, Boynton Beach, FL 33472, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Considering replacing Angie mango
« Reply #45 on: July 12, 2015, 09:02:19 AM »
I think people are missing Sun's pount here.  I dont think she is judging the Angie that it is a bad variety in geberal but more not a variety for her in terms of taste.  I have had the opportunity to sample Angie from varioys years and various sources (with one to go), albeit not a ton of them, and while I dont consider it a flawed variety,  I also do not c onsider it a variety I want in terms of taste.  I would relate it to a Carrie or Julie o r Valencia Pride,  many love it but it is not a taste for me.
- Rob

sunworshiper

  • Oviedo, FL (9b)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 458
    • View Profile
Re: Considering replacing Angie mango
« Reply #46 on: July 12, 2015, 11:21:45 AM »
Those are nice looking fruit! There are a couple of nicely formed Angie's still holding, I will report on those when they ripen. Rob is right, I don't think this variety is bad in general, but I think I may be discovering it isn't right for me. I bought the tree the year they were released at Fairchild, so tasting beforehand wasn't an option. Now that it is fruiting, I think the flavor may be too strong for me. With room for only a limited number of trees, another variety may suit me better. My work schedule is keeping me too busy to get down to south FL and find other Angie's to taste compare to. But if any of you are in my area (Orlando) I invite you by to sample one of mine and offer an opinion on if it has the "normal" flavor or if it seems off. Would love to know for sure if my fruits are having an off year, of if I just personally don't like the flavor.

jc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 539
    • Treasure Coast, Florida, 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Considering replacing Angie mango
« Reply #47 on: July 12, 2015, 02:31:41 PM »
I spray all year long, sometimes nutritional, sometimes copper/sulfur/ Plant Doctor . The first year it set fruit, I didn't spray fungicide and it set a heavy crop that i removed at about golfball size to promote vegetative growth.

It is indeed a marathon:) jc, do your tree set well without spraying? Mine sets zero fruit without spraying, which is another of the reasons it is on the bubble. I don't enjoy the task of spraying...
JC

sunworshiper

  • Oviedo, FL (9b)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 458
    • View Profile
Re: Considering replacing Angie mango
« Reply #48 on: July 13, 2015, 07:13:52 PM »
Nice to know it can set without spraying in some years.

WGphil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 614
    • Winter Garden Florida 9B
    • View Profile
Re: Considering replacing Angie mango
« Reply #49 on: July 14, 2015, 09:13:05 AM »
I travel to Titusville every weekend to my girlfriends house.  Which is pretty close to you when I am in the East Orlando area. 

Just had a major raccoon attack on my Fairchild but if I can get one ready to pick I will trade you for an Angie. 


 

Copyright © Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers