Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers



Author Topic: Pickering versus Cogshall  (Read 19407 times)

zands

  • wango_tango_mango_zango
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4118
    • Zone 10b, Florida, USA, 33321
    • View Profile
Re: Pickering versus Cogshall
« Reply #50 on: June 25, 2012, 06:18:52 PM »

To ME, the following I would call "the best":  Mahachanok, Cushman, Mallika, Coconut Cream, Lemon Zest, Edward, Southern Blush, Dot, PPK/Lemon Meringue, Neelam and Tong Bi Con (based on the one I had tonight...the first one I ever tried).  There are also a number of varieties that fall just outside what I would consider "the best". 



bsb--- Why do like Neelam? And any comments on the taste and when you saw it ripe? I have one but will not get to taste the fruits for 45 days or so I figure

FlyingFoxFruits

  • Prince of Plinia
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12448
  • www.FlyingFoxFruits.com
    • USA, FEMA Region IV, FL Zone 9a
    • View Profile
    • Flying Fox Fruits
Re: Pickering versus Cogshall
« Reply #51 on: June 25, 2012, 06:24:35 PM »


surprised no one has confirmed whether this dimple feature is apparent on most Pickering fruits.

Do all pickering trees tend to exhibit this funny dimple?  I have one tree that does and one that doesn't.

The one with the dimple is my oldest and best producing tree...I only have two small trees to compare, so any feedback is appreciated..bullie, squam, pugluvr...thanks!

this tree with the dimple is the one that I've fed to people who say its not pickering.  I'm guessing it just taste different because I grow in greenhouse pretty much through winter...I had fruits to eat quite early as a result.




Not sure about the actual dimple/hole but the shape, coloration, markings and beak all look like a Pickering.  From what I can see of the leaf, confirms Pickering also.

natsgarden123

  • Guest
Re: Pickering versus Cogshall
« Reply #52 on: June 25, 2012, 07:14:55 PM »
OK, OK I give up.  I just read this whole thread.  I've got to ask, bsbullie what mangos would you call excellent?  I bought a Pickering because of the great reviews and now you're telling me it's not great.  Hopefully I'll have some of he ones you consider excellent.

Bill
To ME, the following I would call "the best":  Mahachanok, Cushman, Mallika, Coconut Cream, Lemon Zest, Edward, Southern Blush, Dot, PPK/Lemon Meringue, Neelam and Tong Bi Con (based on the one I had tonight...the first one I ever tried).  There are also a number of varieties that fall just outside what I would consider "the best". 

Everybody, please read and let me clarify...I am giving MY opinion on them (and other varieties mentioned). Me saying they are not excellent in no way means that somebody else may think they are excellent (and again, they are good, just not what I would call excellent...if it make you feel better, to ME, they are MUCH better than a Carrie).  I am sure there are many varieties that I think are excellent that others don't.  What each person likes is 100% subjective, no right or wrong.  That is why it is routinely said to taste a mango first, when possible, before you buy it.  When that is not an option, you just have to go by what is said and written.

Looking forward to tasting the maha- If its all its supposed to be, I will have to find some room .  :)

morris4000

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 64
    • USA, Orlando, FL 32801 Zone 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Pickering versus Cogshall
« Reply #53 on: June 25, 2012, 09:51:44 PM »
Adam I have a Pickering and I can confirm the dimple. That's a 10-4 mango detective!

FlyingFoxFruits

  • Prince of Plinia
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12448
  • www.FlyingFoxFruits.com
    • USA, FEMA Region IV, FL Zone 9a
    • View Profile
    • Flying Fox Fruits
Re: Pickering versus Cogshall
« Reply #54 on: June 26, 2012, 12:10:41 AM »
thanks for the info Morris,

Glad to know my trees not a weirdo.

How many fruits did your Trickering P make?

bsbullie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8715
    • USA, Boynton Beach, FL 33472, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Pickering versus Cogshall
« Reply #55 on: June 26, 2012, 06:24:07 AM »
thanks for the info Morris,

Glad to know my trees not a weirdo.

How many fruits did your Trickering P make?
Don't know if that can be ruled out even with confirmation of the dimple  ;) ;D
- Rob

bsbullie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8715
    • USA, Boynton Beach, FL 33472, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Pickering versus Cogshall
« Reply #56 on: June 26, 2012, 06:29:03 AM »

To ME, the following I would call "the best":  Mahachanok, Cushman, Mallika, Coconut Cream, Lemon Zest, Edward, Southern Blush, Dot, PPK/Lemon Meringue, Neelam and Tong Bi Con (based on the one I had tonight...the first one I ever tried).  There are also a number of varieties that fall just outside what I would consider "the best". 



bsb--- Why do like Neelam? And any comments on the taste and when you saw it ripe? I have one but will not get to taste the fruits for 45 days or so I figure
I really like the flavor of Indian mangoes.  Once you taste the Neelam you will understand what I mean.  It is a very sweet, strong flavored fruit (in a good way) without any acidity.  Bad thing about a Neelam is their size, they are a relatively small mango.  It usually is one of, if not the, last harvested mango variety.  Actual timing is tough to call as it would be based, for the most part, on the way each mango season plays out.  Last year they seemed to ripened earlier than usual, late August if my memory serves me..
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 08:30:40 AM by bsbullie »
- Rob

zands

  • wango_tango_mango_zango
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4118
    • Zone 10b, Florida, USA, 33321
    • View Profile
Re: Pickering versus Cogshall
« Reply #57 on: June 26, 2012, 08:26:14 AM »

To ME, the following I would call "the best":  Mahachanok, Cushman, Mallika, Coconut Cream, Lemon Zest, Edward, Southern Blush, Dot, PPK/Lemon Meringue, Neelam and Tong Bi Con (based on the one I had tonight...the first one I ever tried).  There are also a number of varieties that fall just outside what I would consider "the best". 



bsb--- Why do like Neelam? And any comments on the taste and when you saw it ripe? I have one but will not get to taste the fruits for 45 days or so I figure
I really like the flavor of Indian mangoes.  Once you taste the Neelam you will understand what I mean.  It is a very sweet, strong flavored fruit (in a good way) without any acidity.  Bad thing about a Neelam is their size, they are a relatively small mango.  It usually is one of, if not the, last harvested mango variety.  Actual timing is tough to call as it would be based, for the most part, on the was each mango season plays out.  Last year they seemed to ripened earlier than usual, late August if my memory serves me..

Thanks much bsb! I value your opinion. I lucked out on Indian mangoes. I like small fruit size so I will like Neelam then. Can't wait to taste them. Other Indian mangoes I have are Zill via Jeff Hagen. They are Langra Barnarsi and Fernandin. I like strong tasting mangoes (even Carrie which you don't) but I'm beginning to think the SE Asian mangoes are too much straight sweetness for me. I like piney mangoes and fibrous seedling ones so far.

FlyingFoxFruits

  • Prince of Plinia
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12448
  • www.FlyingFoxFruits.com
    • USA, FEMA Region IV, FL Zone 9a
    • View Profile
    • Flying Fox Fruits
Re: Pickering versus Cogshall
« Reply #58 on: June 26, 2012, 09:37:58 AM »
true!
 ;D

thanks for the info Morris,

Glad to know my trees not a weirdo.

How many fruits did your Trickering P make?
Don't know if that can be ruled out even with confirmation of the dimple  ;) ;D

Cookie Monster

  • Broward, FL Zone 10b
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4669
  • Eye like mangoes
    • Tamarac, FL, 33321, 10B
    • View Profile
Re: Pickering versus Cogshall
« Reply #59 on: June 26, 2012, 03:51:47 PM »
My vote is for the pickering. The pickering is an incredibly delicious mango when eaten properly ripened. However, when eaten underripe, the flavor is bland and not very sweet. When properly ripened, the pickering is incredibly sweet, creamy, and has strong coconut undertones. It does lack a tart component. So for those of you who like a tarty flavored mango, it may not be your top scoring mango.

In summary, the pickering wins in:

 0) Flavor. The pickering is sweeter and creamier than the cogshall. Pickering also has a unique coconutty flavor.
 1) Lack of internal breakdown. (The cogshall regularly has issues with internal breakdown)
 2) Production and consistency. The pickering will out produce a cogshall many times over.
 3) Precocity. Talk about instant gratification! The pickering starts pooping out fruits the minute it goes into the ground.
 4) Disease resistance. No need to use copper at all.
 5) Size. The cogshall will get bigger over time.

Pickering wins! Just make sure not to eat your pickerings until they are fully ripe (until they have a noticeable aroma)!

On a side note -- one of the notable attributes of the newer Zill mangoes (pickering, lemon zest, etc -- those developed by Gary Zill) is that they are free of internal breakdown issues. This is due in large part to where the mangoes are being selected (Gary's residence) where flooding is a problem (flooding exacerbates internal breakdown). Internal breakdown is a serious problem for many cultivars. A normally delicious mango can be turned to icky muck due to internal breakdown (eg, the cogshall). So, for those of you struggling with internal breakdown issues, look to the newer Zill mangoes!
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 03:58:53 PM by Cookie Monster »
Jeff  :-)

mangomandan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1106
  • When a man is tired of mangos, he is tired of life
    • USA, Lake Worth, Florida, 33461, 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Pickering versus Cogshall
« Reply #60 on: June 26, 2012, 04:10:32 PM »
Nice summary, Jeff  :)

I really hate internal breakdown. It's unpredictable and wastes the money of innocent consumers.

Tropicalgrower89

  • Zone 10b, Florida
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1561
    • Pembroke Pines, FL, 33024, 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Pickering versus Cogshall
« Reply #61 on: June 26, 2012, 04:56:41 PM »
My vote is for the pickering. The pickering is an incredibly delicious mango when eaten properly ripened. However, when eaten underripe, the flavor is bland and not very sweet. When properly ripened, the pickering is incredibly sweet, creamy, and has strong coconut undertones. It does lack a tart component. So for those of you who like a tarty flavored mango, it may not be your top scoring mango.

In summary, the pickering wins in:

 0) Flavor. The pickering is sweeter and creamier than the cogshall. Pickering also has a unique coconutty flavor.
 1) Lack of internal breakdown. (The cogshall regularly has issues with internal breakdown)
 2) Production and consistency. The pickering will out produce a cogshall many times over.
 3) Precocity. Talk about instant gratification! The pickering starts pooping out fruits the minute it goes into the ground.
 4) Disease resistance. No need to use copper at all.
 5) Size. The cogshall will get bigger over time.

Pickering wins! Just make sure not to eat your pickerings until they are fully ripe (until they have a noticeable aroma)!

On a side note -- one of the notable attributes of the newer Zill mangoes (pickering, lemon zest, etc -- those developed by Gary Zill) is that they are free of internal breakdown issues. This is due in large part to where the mangoes are being selected (Gary's residence) where flooding is a problem (flooding exacerbates internal breakdown). Internal breakdown is a serious problem for many cultivars. A normally delicious mango can be turned to icky muck due to internal breakdown (eg, the cogshall). So, for those of you struggling with internal breakdown issues, look to the newer Zill mangoes!

Is the soil where Gary lives a muck/rock soil like in some parts of davie and southwest ranches?  Reason I'm asking is because you've  mentioned that his property is prone to flooding.
Alexi

Central Floridave

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 487
    • View Profile
Re: Pickering versus Cogshall
« Reply #62 on: June 26, 2012, 05:21:30 PM »
I've got both trees.  I've got two cogshalls that are about ten years old and the pickering is only around 3 years old.   This is the first year that I've had pickering fruit and only tasted it the past couple of days.   I like it.

If I had to choose between the two that would be difficult.   The cogshall is a great mango in my opinion.  It would suck as a commercial variety as it breaks down too quickly. But, in the backyard you can pick them one at a time.   They can suffer from softnose, but I don't have that problem as I'm high and dry.   Supposedly the cure for softnose or internal breakdown is liming the soil (raising the PH, and providing a calcium source).   Also, use less Nitrogen. Timing of fertilizer which should only be done after fruit drop is also important.   

 I hardly never fertilize my trees either. They don't need it.   I also never ever ever ever water them.  They don't need water either!   I suspect people who have their mango suffer from softnose are the ones who are not practicing "tough love" with their trees and fertilize and water too much. 

But, back on topic, pickering or cogshall...tough one...cogshall has been a proven winner for me, but the pickering is coming up strong!   Cogshall is super early so is often the first taste of mango of the season, so that gets high marks!    Cogshall produces a lot of fruit every year for me also.  I've only limited experience with the pickering, but it is a very good tasting mango and the reported small growth habit is intriguing.   Tough call. Let us know what you go with.

Central Floridave

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 487
    • View Profile
Re: Pickering versus Cogshall
« Reply #63 on: June 26, 2012, 05:23:01 PM »
Also mentioned on this thread is the Glenn and watered down taste....my large tree didn't produce that much fruit this year, but everyone ripened perfectly and very good tasting.  But, again, I'm high and dry where I live so that may play a part.   Mango don't like floods! 

Cookie Monster

  • Broward, FL Zone 10b
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4669
  • Eye like mangoes
    • Tamarac, FL, 33321, 10B
    • View Profile
Re: Pickering versus Cogshall
« Reply #64 on: June 26, 2012, 05:32:29 PM »
If I remember correctly, he said it's sand but with a very high water table. The topic came up because I had mentioned how I had noticed that the new Zill mangoes were free from internal breakdown.

My vote is for the pickering. The pickering is an incredibly delicious mango when eaten properly ripened. However, when eaten underripe, the flavor is bland and not very sweet. When properly ripened, the pickering is incredibly sweet, creamy, and has strong coconut undertones. It does lack a tart component. So for those of you who like a tarty flavored mango, it may not be your top scoring mango.

In summary, the pickering wins in:

 0) Flavor. The pickering is sweeter and creamier than the cogshall. Pickering also has a unique coconutty flavor.
 1) Lack of internal breakdown. (The cogshall regularly has issues with internal breakdown)
 2) Production and consistency. The pickering will out produce a cogshall many times over.
 3) Precocity. Talk about instant gratification! The pickering starts pooping out fruits the minute it goes into the ground.
 4) Disease resistance. No need to use copper at all.
 5) Size. The cogshall will get bigger over time.

Pickering wins! Just make sure not to eat your pickerings until they are fully ripe (until they have a noticeable aroma)!

On a side note -- one of the notable attributes of the newer Zill mangoes (pickering, lemon zest, etc -- those developed by Gary Zill) is that they are free of internal breakdown issues. This is due in large part to where the mangoes are being selected (Gary's residence) where flooding is a problem (flooding exacerbates internal breakdown). Internal breakdown is a serious problem for many cultivars. A normally delicious mango can be turned to icky muck due to internal breakdown (eg, the cogshall). So, for those of you struggling with internal breakdown issues, look to the newer Zill mangoes!

Is the soil where Gary lives a muck/rock soil like in some parts of davie and southwest ranches?  Reason I'm asking is because you've  mentioned that his property is prone to flooding.
Jeff  :-)

Cookie Monster

  • Broward, FL Zone 10b
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4669
  • Eye like mangoes
    • Tamarac, FL, 33321, 10B
    • View Profile
Re: Pickering versus Cogshall
« Reply #65 on: June 26, 2012, 05:38:09 PM »
Muck soil and high water table influence internal breakdown (in addition to nitrogen).

I've got both trees.  I've got two cogshalls that are about ten years old and the pickering is only around 3 years old.   This is the first year that I've had pickering fruit and only tasted it the past couple of days.   I like it.

If I had to choose between the two that would be difficult.   The cogshall is a great mango in my opinion.  It would suck as a commercial variety as it breaks down too quickly. But, in the backyard you can pick them one at a time.   They can suffer from softnose, but I don't have that problem as I'm high and dry.   Supposedly the cure for softnose or internal breakdown is liming the soil (raising the PH, and providing a calcium source).   Also, use less Nitrogen. Timing of fertilizer which should only be done after fruit drop is also important.   

 I hardly never fertilize my trees either. They don't need it.   I also never ever ever ever water them.  They don't need water either!   I suspect people who have their mango suffer from softnose are the ones who are not practicing "tough love" with their trees and fertilize and water too much. 

But, back on topic, pickering or cogshall...tough one...cogshall has been a proven winner for me, but the pickering is coming up strong!   Cogshall is super early so is often the first taste of mango of the season, so that gets high marks!    Cogshall produces a lot of fruit every year for me also.  I've only limited experience with the pickering, but it is a very good tasting mango and the reported small growth habit is intriguing.   Tough call. Let us know what you go with.
Jeff  :-)

BestDay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 562
  • Long Beach, CA 10B 22
    • View Profile
Re: Pickering versus Cogshall
« Reply #66 on: June 26, 2012, 08:48:01 PM »
Is Cogshall early?  Pine Island says it ripens June and July.  Does that sound right?

Bill

morris4000

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 64
    • USA, Orlando, FL 32801 Zone 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Pickering versus Cogshall
« Reply #67 on: June 26, 2012, 08:58:03 PM »
12 adam

FlyingFoxFruits

  • Prince of Plinia
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12448
  • www.FlyingFoxFruits.com
    • USA, FEMA Region IV, FL Zone 9a
    • View Profile
    • Flying Fox Fruits
Re: Pickering versus Cogshall
« Reply #68 on: June 26, 2012, 09:28:55 PM »

puglvr1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1946
    • USA, Central, FL xxxxx, Zone 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Pickering versus Cogshall
« Reply #69 on: June 26, 2012, 09:36:04 PM »
My vote is for the pickering. The pickering is an incredibly delicious mango when eaten properly ripened. However, when eaten underripe, the flavor is bland and not very sweet. When properly ripened, the pickering is incredibly sweet, creamy, and has strong coconut undertones. It does lack a tart component. So for those of you who like a tarty flavored mango, it may not be your top scoring mango.

In summary, the pickering wins in:

 0) Flavor. The pickering is sweeter and creamier than the cogshall. Pickering also has a unique coconutty flavor.
 1) Lack of internal breakdown. (The cogshall regularly has issues with internal breakdown)
 2) Production and consistency. The pickering will out produce a cogshall many times over.
 3) Precocity. Talk about instant gratification! The pickering starts pooping out fruits the minute it goes into the ground.
 4) Disease resistance. No need to use copper at all.
 5) Size. The cogshall will get bigger over time.

Pickering wins! Just make sure not to eat your pickerings until they are fully ripe (until they have a noticeable aroma)!

On a side note -- one of the notable attributes of the newer Zill mangoes (pickering, lemon zest, etc -- those developed by Gary Zill) is that they are free of internal breakdown issues. This is due in large part to where the mangoes are being selected (Gary's residence) where flooding is a problem (flooding exacerbates internal breakdown). Internal breakdown is a serious problem for many cultivars. A normally delicious mango can be turned to icky muck due to internal breakdown (eg, the cogshall). So, for those of you struggling with internal breakdown issues, look to the newer Zill mangoes!

Thanks for the great summary on Pickering Jeff !!

Is Cogshall early?  Pine Island says it ripens June and July.  Does that sound right?

Bill


Bill, I believe Cogshall is considered "Mid season"... Mine are just starting to ripen now, I still have several of them that are still pretty green, maybe another week or so...before they're ready.

Squam256

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2122
  • Mangos and budwood for sale
    • USA, West Palm Beach, FL, 33405, Zone 10b
    • View Profile
    • https://www.facebook.com/TropicalAcresFarms
Re: Pickering versus Cogshall
« Reply #70 on: June 26, 2012, 09:40:37 PM »
Excellent rundown there by Jeff. Covered all the points.

Guanabanus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2626
  • SE Palm Beach County, East of I-95, Elevation 18'
    • USA, Florida, Boynton Beach, 33435, Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Pickering versus Cogshall
« Reply #71 on: June 26, 2012, 09:43:27 PM »
Yes, Cogshall is Early.  At Truly Tropical its season is finishing this week, after running steady about a month and a half.   Pickering just started last week.  So plant both!.
Har

bsbullie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8715
    • USA, Boynton Beach, FL 33472, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Pickering versus Cogshall
« Reply #72 on: June 26, 2012, 10:57:20 PM »
For the most part Cogshall is an early season mango however location plays a great role as to what part of the season.  As Har as stated, Truly Tropical's mangoes seem to come in a little earlier than most, most likely due to her layout and Easterly location.  She had temps a bit warmer than most in the area.  On the other hand, Nancy, being much North of here near Sebring, I believe, her season would be a little later than most due to her cooler winter/spring climate.

- Rob

Guanabanus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2626
  • SE Palm Beach County, East of I-95, Elevation 18'
    • USA, Florida, Boynton Beach, 33435, Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Pickering versus Cogshall
« Reply #73 on: June 26, 2012, 11:37:54 PM »
Last December I fertilized Truly Tropical's two large 'Cogshall' trees with about a dozen handfuls each of OLD "Fruitilizer", that had been in ripped bags for about three years, so much of the nitrogen had evaporated.  Around February we spread tree-surgeons' mulch, about 4 inches thick, almost out to the dripline,  then used more of the same fertilizer again over the mulch. 

There was no softnose or internal breakdown, and flavor was excellent.
Har

Sleepdoc

  • Davie, Florida Zone 10b
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 782
    • View Profile
Re: Pickering versus Cogshall
« Reply #74 on: June 29, 2012, 04:08:00 PM »
I ate one of my tree ripened Pickerings today in a sort of mini taste test.  I did this at work, with about 6 people of differing ethnicity and mango experience. 

Those being evaluated were all from my yard or a neighbors yard.

Ranking ...

1. Edward
2. Pickering
3. Angie
4. Carrie
5. Cogshall.

All of these mango's were well ripened. 

The Edward was, well, a very nice Edward.  Full, rich, sweet, perfectly balanced.
The Pickering was also very, very good. Maybe just edged out by the Edward, and amongst the best of this season for me.  I have it in my "Top Tier" of 2012.

Angie and Carrie were good, but not as good as previous years

Cogshall rounded out the final spot, and wasn't bad, but certainly no competition for the Pickering.

Again, taste is subjective, but 6 out of 6 chose Pickering way above the Cogshall in flavor.

 

Copyright © Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers